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This cost more than any of my systems. This is the point where I know when I don't belong.
I do have two, dedicated 20 amp duplex outlets and Furman conditioners on all my gear (4 systems). A start at least.
Early in the review process, I had questions with respect to not only the Niagara 3000 but also AQ's AC power design philosophy and implementation, in general. Garth Powell, AQ's senior director of engineering and designer of power products, answered my questions.
"The NEMA Edison duplex receptacle is a 'grandfathered' design that's nearly a century old. It was meant for 110VAC at 10 amps. [The standard is] now 120VAC at 20A, and all that's changed is mostly cosmetic. The brass material is soft and thin; it was made for marginal safety concerns and to be inexpensive. In an audiophile system, we have special tools to tighten our speaker cables to the binding posts, and RCA or balanced XLR connectors feature a vice-like grip. Yet the poorest connector in the system is the one that carries the most RMS (average) current, transient current, and AC voltage?
"At AudioQuest, we reverse-engineered every premium-audiophile power receptacle we could find. Some were substantially better than average (a few [were] actually worse), but what I saw too often was cryogenic freezing, or rhodium plating over a mostly stock design that simply wasn't up to par. I decided to not only use beryllium copper base metal for its high spring strength, but all metal parts are up to 40% thicker than a typical NEMA or hospital grade AC receptacle. The only plating is thick, direct silver using what's called the 'hanging' plating process. This assures that induced radio-frequency noise has a low-impedance path back to the electrical panel and Earth ground. Further, it's low-impedance at radio frequencies. The plating covers all modes: Line, Neutral, and Ground. Many premium power receptacles do not. For audio-video performance, details count. Noise-dissipation is a drainage system, and we do not want a power receptacle to interfere with the drain path back to earth. Additionally, a typical power amplifier can require instantaneous transient current as high as 70 amps peak. The lower the impedance of the wall connection, the better the delivery of the transient current. [There's] less current compression."
Listening with the Bel Canto e1X
The Bel Canto e1X was reinserted into my system and connected to the Niagara 3000 with an AudioQuest Blizzard AC cable. "Song of the Stars," from the Dead Can Dance album Spiritchaser (16/44.1 FLAC, 4AD 46230), was playing; something very quickly got my attention: The dual subs seemed to be playing at a lower-than-usual volume. After adjusting the volume of the subs upward to match the rest of the system, I noticed that the bass content was all there, just none of the distortion that often accompanies it. With the dual subs connected to the Niagara 3000, it was obvious that there was less distortion in the signal, and the bass was deeper, more dynamic, and more musical than before.
The e1X is a superb class-D amplifier; I've never found its performance lacking. Designer John Stronczer says his power supply design allows the e1X to avoid the sort of midrange distortions that seem to plague many class A/B amps with large toroidal transformers. The e1Xeven when connected directly to my existing AC linepresented music that was almost Technicolor in comparison to my Emotiva XPA-1Ls. During the Dead Can Dance session, it became apparent that the bass content wasn't the only story; Brendan Perry's deep baritone never sounded so resounding, and his guitar tone was articulate and rounded. Later in the song, when Lisa Gerrard's otherworldly voice joined in a call and response with Perry, the effect was mesmerizing.
The new playback chain that now included the Niagara 3000 and the NRG Edison receptacles allowed my system to extract a previously unheard level of tangibility from the streamed recording. I also listened to the tune "Don't Let It Bring You Down" from Neil Young's Live at Massey Hall (16/44.1 FLAC, Reprise 9362-43328-2); I was taken aback by the vividness of Neil Young alone with his guitar. The real eye-opener, however, was when the music stopped: The absolute quiet in my room was almost ghostly compared to the state I was accustomed to.
Additional listening
The Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks have been part of my system for some time now; their sound has always impressed me as being both neutral and dynamic. After the appearance of the Bel Canto e1X, however, I was almost ready to consign them to the scrap heap. Their presentation seemed "colorless" in comparison with the e1X, which was confirmed by repeat listens in the aftermath of the e1X review.
Upon connecting the XPA-1L's to the Niagara 3000, I was struck by an improved level of clarity and authority and perhaps a touch of previously unheard sweetness; listening through them suddenly became a more engaging musical experience. I'd been using recent SACD acquisition, the Shostakovich Symphonies Nos. 1 and 15 (SACD, BIS 7318599916439) with Mark Wigglesworth and the Netherlands RPO, as a demo disc for friends with the Bel Canto e1X and the Maggie LRS loudspeakers. With the Niagara 3000 in place, it was now possible to experience the delicacies and dynamics of this music to a degree previously unheard.
I played a few LPs with the PrimaLuna EVO 300 integrated amp connected to the Zu Omens, among them, the new Craft Recordings vinyl reissue of Collective Soul's eponymous second album (Craft Recordings CR00290). The opening track, "Simple," is powerful and dynamic, easily the best song on the album. With the Niagara 3000 in the loop, analog playback was the best I'd ever heard here. Even though the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ phono pre has a dedicated linear power supply, plugging it into one of the 3000's source receptacles vanquished the touch of electronic haze that normally appeared in my system around the midpoint of the volume dial. That haze is now gone, at all volume levels.
Conclusion
It's obvious to me now that clean AC power is necessary to allow audiophile-grade equipment to perform as designed; otherwise, even the best products will fail to fulfill their potential. In combination with the Niagara 3000, the Edison receptacles and upgraded AC power cables enhanced the performance of all my system components. AudioQuest and Garth Powell had already managed that with the more advanced and expensive components in the Niagara Series; now the reasonably priced Niagara 3000 places that goodness within reach of more people.
This cost more than any of my systems. This is the point where I know when I don't belong.
I do have two, dedicated 20 amp duplex outlets and Furman conditioners on all my gear (4 systems). A start at least.
... so, as editor of Stereophile, a quasi-official position, I'll stand in and adjudicate: There is no price criteria for being a member--just a genuine, sincere love of music and sound. You can keep your card.
Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile
I want to start by saying that the newest issue of "Phile" Jan 2021 is one of the best ever. A great mix of gear, industry news, music, reviews of affordable products, and commentary by you and others. I loved the Bob Katz piece (more from Bob if possible) and wonder why I worry about what MY room adds to the sounds I hear.
With the pandemic and too much time I have moved two systems into my main room, 14' x 22' x 8 foot ceilings (suspended). One is all Denon: DRA 397; DRS 810 cassette deck as I still have about 200 commerical cassettes here; and a DN-300cn MK2 slot cd player; and my refurbished Dual 502 with a Rega 202 arm installed with a Q-Up. It all drives my old AR-58's (the last remake of the fames AR-3a) 30+ years old with refoamed woofers twice.
The other is a 21 year old Pioneer Elite VSX 21, Yamaha S-1800 SACD/DVD player; Sony DTC-690 DAT (my first digital recorder); Sony MDS JE330 mini disc recorder. That Pioneer drives a 5.0 home theater system that is used in 2 channel mode 90% of the time into JBL 3-way bookshelf speakers.
My computer is to the right, a gaming set up my son built for me for better recording work, audio out into a Yamaha MG10XU mixer with 24/192 USB IO into a pair of JBL P305 powered speakers using balanced cables. All of these systems are fed AC through 4 Furman M-8LX power rack mount power strips, even the computer and recording systems I have.
The smaller speakers are sitting on top of the AR's so the presentation spot is nearly the same for everything. Computer recording and editing is done with Sony Sound Forge 14. What I have missed all this year is the ability to go out and record local schools and civic music organizations (for free) which is a great hobby for me. I have about 14 mics in my mic cabinet. You never really realize how much fun you have doing the recording work for others when you can't for nearly a year. I miss it so. It allowed for them to hear themselves as the audience does and then work to improve their live performances. It works every time.
This all came to be when I lost my Yamaha M1 amp and C2 preamp to an upstairs shower drain leak right over my gear. No parts were available to repair the M1, so....luckily I had the other systems to fill in for a long while.
I gave my 3 sons a Thorens TD 160, a Yamaha PF 550, and an Sony DD fully auto turntable to get them started. They are now all collectors of lps.
I am now using my newest Project S2 dac in a headphone station by our bed for late night listening on a pair of Audio Technica ATH-50X's. My AKG K701's bought from a review by the late Wes Phillips was a great recommendation and used off the main systems. 2 pair of AKG K-271s are in full use in my studio. I started spending more in my studio than replacing the Yamaha M1, which has turned out well, just another direction for recording purposes.
Thanks, I will keep my card, but still bemoan the loss of my Yamaha M1 amp. 20 watts of Class A and 200 watts of AB did sound very sweet.
Strongly suggest you audition the modern Yammy integrateds as well as a Luxman, or even a Rogue integrated.
The idea of recording more became more important to me at that point. I had often complained about the poor sound of some commercial recordings and was curious if I could/might do better with some modest gear. I learned much from digging deep into JA1's work and his comments on his recordings as he provided much info behind the scenes as to what he was doing in his recording set ups. I also studies the K622 recording and photos and the discussions with JA1 and Tony Faulkner. Mr. Faulkner has a great video interview on YouTube with Rode Microphones owner, Andrew Friedman with much to be learned.
So with 3 Rode NT-1A's, 2 AKG C3000, 2 Sennheiser 614 pencil mics, 1 SE-V7X dynamic instrument mic, 1-SE V7 vocal mic. 3 Rode M1 vocal mics, Sennheiser: 2-e835, 1-e945, 1 e-865 condenser vocal mic, Shure SM-58; 2 Behringer omni measurement mics. A Yamaha MG 16XU & MG10XU mixers (with compressors and built in effects and 24192 usb IO; Mackie 1402 VLZ4, Mackie 802 VLZ3, 2-Mackie 402 VLZ4's, Lexicon MX 200 and 300 effects, 2-Tascam DR40 2496 SDHC card recorders, and older DR-2d 2496 recorder, and a newer DR 680MK2 that records 6 tracks of 2496 or 2 tracks of 24192 on SDHC cards and units can be linked to make up as many tracks as one wants. I also bought Bob Katz book on recording as well as The Recording Engineering handbook and Sound Recording by John Eargle. I also added a Yamaha P515 digital piano as I wanted to really start learning how to play.
My audio directions and interest took a 180 degree turn. I have enjoyed every minute of it and learning a great deal. I was never without folks who wanted me to record them or their group and I had many vocalists come to the house who had never heard themselves sign, needed to, started to work hard to get better. Some even bought the little Yamaha MG10XU and a vocal mic to practice at home. THE BEST THING A MUSICIAN CAN DO TO IMPROVE.
So I am well aware that JA1 has gear in his storage facility than I presently own, I have tweaked what I do own to where I am satisfied since now listening is no 2 and recording is no 1.
On a personal note, my wife had cancer twice colon, 6 months of chemo, emergency gall bladder surgery in the middle of chemo, then a spot in her liver became dime size and they removed 80% of that. She is now a stage IV survivor and now cancer free for 4+ years and released by her oncologist.
My turn came two weeks ago the prostate cancer surgery, 4 hours, and now a long recovery from a $70K surgery. My wife's bills were nearly $1 mil. My wife and I took a counseling course to help folks who are dealing with cancer and recovery as it causes much distress within families, we try and help them get through it. Too often life gets in the way of our hobbies. My wife and I of 50+ years have done well I think considering all of it.
Maybe when this pandemic is over I will be able to upgrade my listening systems, but I do know that what I do own is sadly better than what all to many who claim to be music lovers own. If a phone and some headphones works for them who am I to judge. That is a huge % or our population.
If this was too much info I apologize. Life goes on.
... last remake of the AR 3a?
https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/995ar/index.html
I don't remember any other 3-way, closed box 12" woofer version being made. You could be right, or not. What is interesting about AR is that at one time they owned over 33% of the speaker market. That will never be duplicated again by anyone.
I always wanted to own a pair of LST, but never quite had the cash when they first came out. AR had some great engineering back in their day as did KLH, Dynaco, Bozak, Quad, and others.
I would honestly say that where I am today is not that far away from where I started in 1971 with a Fisher 500TX, Dynaco A-25's, Teac 350 cassette deck and a Dual 1209 with a Pickering XV-750.
Have you tried Cakewalk by BandLab? It's a totally free full featured DAW that should do everything Sound Forge does but with a higher track count (and added features). It also uses VST plugins like Sound Forge, and the bundled plugins are good. It was formerly known as Sonar, if you have heard of that DAW, before BandLab picked up the IP from Gibson (I think) a couple years ago. It gets regular updates. I prefer Pro Tools, but it's not free (and Cakewalk does *almost* everything Pro Tools does).
You might find this funny, but I still occasionally use a 20+ year old copy of Sound Forge 4.5 for editing 2 track material. Its wave editing function (drawing out clicks, etc) is still easier for me to use than more modern DAWs.
Mark Phillips
Contributor, SoundStage! Network
I will take a look. I am always looking for new things to try during this lockdown.
I do read novels for Audible and still use SF 10 for that as it is much easier to edit out mistakes, insert silence and add new material. I started with Cool Edit and really liked that simple program with, what, Win XP. Ah, the good old days.
MOst of what I do is two track, but when I do some choral work the Tascam DR-680 MK2 came in very handy with the 3 mics on the choir in a Decca tree, two mics on the piano at C3 and C5, and then one other track for a soloist or instrumentalist. That allowed me to come home and really mix down something nice as I recorded all that 2496. It also allowed me to add reverb judiciously and take it out until I got just the right amount of space. Oh, how I miss the recording work.
With nearly 3,000 dying every day I should not be as down as I am with my issues, but 2020 has been a very sad period of time for all of us. New music purchases have helped.
I have especially enjoyed the PBS series of Now Hear This with Scott Yoo. I have order the DVD of season 2 today. Already had season 1 and a season 3 is yet to come. Great music and a great education of the greatest composers who ever lived.
Thanks, again. Jim
... considering that their top 'o the line model, the 7000 tops out at $9.5K!
Kidding aside, you have done more with your setup than most "audiophiles" - a nice start indeed!
With an AQ Niagara 1200 and an AQ Niagara 3000, plus the two NRG Edison outlets, along with a variety of upgraded AQ power cords, I have about $8k worth of power conditioning ahead of a $30k system. That was essentially the premise of my review -- would a relatively modest system like mine benefit from somewhat "exotic" power conditioning and accessories. I can answer that with a resounding YES! The noise floor in my system has never been so very low, and one of the principal benefits of good power is that everything attached to it will perform at much closer to its peak potential. It's a win-win!
Both in $10k+ range. Chord recommends to plug them directly into the wall (I assume because for that kind of dough they must have implemented top-notch switching power supplies in their electronics, with all sorts of filtering). Would it be smart to still invest in something like Niagara, in spite of what the vendor explicitly states in their manual and online? Could it be that Niagara and alike are helpful if electronics is much less than $10-15k e.g. 3-5k?
I've had a fair amount of equipment in my system across a significant range of MSRPs since the AQ power equipment took residence in my room, and everything has sounded superb with the AudioQuest NRG outlets and Niagara in place. My current listening environment was custom built with dual dedicated AC lines, and I really thought that would be enough -- but my experience with the AQ equipment has proved otherwise. And while the addition of the AQ equipment really initially seemed counterintuitive to me, I hear blacker, more noise-free backgrounds, and my amplifiers produce more unbridled power -- everything seems to work much more symbiotically, and much closer to peak efficiency. YMMV, but I'd strongly recommend it.
Quite a few "audiophile" receptacles are not available in 15 amp models.
People should know that it is illegal to install a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit. (There are many wrong answers to this question online.) Such an installation is a violation of the NEC (National Electrical Code). In most places, the NEC is adopted as a matter of law, not as a matter of suggested reading, so violations of it are illegal. I have yet to see any vendor selling 20 amp "audiophile" receptacles online mention this.
Another issue is the gripping strength of the electrical contacts in the receptacle. Hubbell told me years ago that "hospital grade" receptacles should not be used for appliances that are frequently plugged and unplugged. The equipment used in hospitals has plugs that can withstand the higher stress. Ordinary plugs can be damaged by the repeated stress of being plugged and unplugged into a hospital grade receptacle. It is not pleasant to have a plug disintegrate in your hand, an event that may leave one or more live electrical contacts sticking out of the receptacle.
All are hospital grade 20 amp. 20 amp breakers are used with 12 GA wire. An electrician did it, so I believe it is rightly done. If mine are plugged and unplugged once a year that would be alot. Set and forget. all of my unplugging is into my Furman M-8LX rack mount strips. They have made a difference as my recording set up has a noise floor of near -80db. Once you open the mics the ambient room noise does come into play, but I am starting off on a good note.
I have also used the FFT display in NCH WavPad to see where the noise is located frequency wise, and what abnormalities there are in recordings I do in Sound Forge. I use SF as I think it sounds better.
I have a Furman Elite-15 DM i in my bedroom.
My Furman unit is not intended for audiophile use, but for closely monitoring the voltage and amperage at one of my very ordinary receptacles. I have fuses in my main panel, and I do not want to blow fuses. After repeatedly noticing that the voltage was very close to the legal upper limit, I called the electric utility company. They said the problem I was reporting was very rare, but does happen, and they would send someone to service the transformer on the telephone pole. No more high voltage.
Anyone planning to buy a Furman product should buy it from an authorized dealer. There is no warranty otherwise. I bought mine from Natural Sound, in Framingham, MA.
Two 15-amp AudioQuest NRG Edison outlets were installed on a 20-amp dedicated circuit. Not vice-versa. That is within code, and is very common practice in a lot of new home construction. Even when installed on a 20-amp line, a 15-amp receptacle will never draw more than 15-amps, and most equipment rated for 15-amps draws considerably less current. 20-amp circuits are generally employed with 15-amp outlets to reduce the instances of "nuisance" circuit tripping -- which is a very real problem with current electrical code requirements. The two AQ NRG 15-amp outlets on the 20-amp dedicated circuit to my listening room replaced two 15-amp hospital grade outlets that were installed by the builder four years ago on the very same 10-gauge Romex-wired 20-amp circuit. As Jim Austin noted, electrical wiring isn't for the faint of heart, and I would definitely concur that when in doubt, get professionals involved! My electrical training came from shadowing my brother-in-law -- who was a master electrician -- for years of home renovation work throughout our extended family.
Thanks for your reply. I understood what the author wrote, and was making a general statement about something relevant, important, and not generally known.
Thanks, too, for explaining why anyone would install a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit. I was puzzled by that. There is an article about wiring in dedicated listening rooms at The Other Magazine!, but their website is not working well at the moment.
The fine print on a Hubbell receptacle box to which I do not have access at the moment states that the UL approval for the product applies only if the terminal screws are tightened to a torque in a specified range.
To give an example:
From https://hubbellcdn.com/installationmanuals/WIRING_PD2615_INSTALLINST.pdf
TERMINAL CAPACITY
15A : 14 – 10 AWG
20A : 12 – 10 AWG
Tighten terminal screws securely to 12 - 14 lb-in.
It seems clear that if the terminal screws are loose, the electrical resistance at the point of contact would increase, but it is not intuitively clear why the electrical resistance would also increase if the screws are too tight.
Hi
Per NEC code:
#10 NM (non-metal) house electrical wire: 30A@60C, max 35A
#12 same type wire : 20A
#14 same type wire : 15A
So 15A wall outlet for #10 wire will be risky unless the audio rig current load is not over 15A rms. So make sure there is no very large power output solid state power amps in the load !!
Jack L
Using a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit raises questions I have seen discussed nowhere.
I wonder just what the differences are between 15 amp and 20 amp receptacles, other than the face plate that allows insertion of a 20 amp type plug. I have also wondered if the makers of 20 amp "audiophile" receptacles would be in violation of code if they just took a 20 amp receptacle and put the face plate from a 15 amp receptacle on it, so a 20 amp type plug could not be inserted.
Shunyata has a YouTube video showing the internal construction of their Hubbell-based receptacle versus a typical receptacle:
Hubbell SR-Z1 Outlets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TtgjtzQSwY
Hi Charles
Any electrical walloutlets, like any electrical/electronics appliances/equipment, must get UL certification of rated current load & voltage capacity before allowed to be sold in the market & used indoor/outdoor in USA.
So if the current load exceeds the UL certified rating of the walloutlet, unfortunately it causes fire or casuality, the underwriters involved will have the legal right to turn down any claims thereof.
So play safe before regret !
Jack L
Jack L,
Thank you.
I am not planning to do any code violations myself. I have enough trouble even when following the rules.
Now I wonder if installing a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit is a violation of the NEC.
Hi Charles.
Technically YES.
As I already posted above, as long as the total loading of your audio rig does not exceeed the receptable's UL cerified 15A rating, you are safe.
Also please check the contactor (fuse) of electrical panel of yr home, hooked up to the 15A walloutlet for your audio rig is also rated for 15A capacity. If so, then you should be OK. Any overload by the load of yr audio rig will trigger off the 15A contactor to cut out the power to yr audio rig.
But if you rig gets a few soldstate power amps with very high output power working at the same time, overloading the 15A walloutlet, the related electrical panel 15A contactor (fuse) will trip & cut off the power to yr rig.
So I woould either replace the 15A walloutlet to 20 evem 30A UL rated one if you still want to keep the AWG#10 power cable.
Jack L
JackL,
My current situation should be fine, and you have reminded me to put this sign up in my basement. I have made a practice of using industrial quality signs in my basement, as part of the decor:
https://www.compliancesigns.com/ONEP-30048.shtml
Equipment like this would be a great candidate for carrying out measurements on, not just to verify the manufacturers claims, but also to reassure the sceptics that their money is well spent. Testing would also be great to show whether power delivered from a solar inverter needs/benefits from conditioning.
I’ve seen a few reviewers state that the Niagara gear provides solid improvements, but sadly they're not available in 230v/Australian plugged versions.
Personally, I haven’t had any noticeable improvements when using power conditioners, and using amplifiers even with conditioners designed with high-current outputs (Isotek Aquarius EVO 3) still diminished dynamics, resulting in an overly smooth sound- not what you want when listening to Prodigy-style stuff! Same with either class AB amps (Krell integrated) or D class (Hypex NC500). Admittedly, my experience with conditioners was at a much lower price point than the Audioquest,
Still, I use a conditioner for my source gear for protection purposes, and also to provide a stable voltage/frequency too. Our local power is specified at 230V, and delivered to the premises at 250V.
My new home is less than four years old and was built to current exacting electrical codes using -- especially in my listening room -- dedicated, heavy-gauge Romex wire circuits with hospital grade outlets. I didn't think it could get any better, but I was wrong: the combination of the AQ NRG outlets, the Niagara 3000 unit, and a selection of high-quality AC cords has transformed my listening, and reduced AC line noise substantially. YMMV, but in my situation, the improvements were dramatic, to say the least.
That's great to hear. Convenient as well to have all your gear plugged into the one unit, instead of into various wall outlets and power strips.
This would be a great item to buy from a retailer that allows returns, as I imagine that power supply varies considerably from place to place so try-before-you-buy would be pretty important.
An interesting study into THD was carried out in Australia, and might be useful for showing what might be expected (THD-wise) at a regular household outlet (in Australia, at least).
https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=8313&context=engpapers
edit- the study was carried out on New Zealand power, by an Aus university.
I was referring mostly to the power supplied TO a premises, rather than the quality of installation of an existing premises.
Having had the same electrical utility for over thirty years, I can't say that I've ever had the quality of the power evaluated, but I've never really had any issues, either.
From https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/solar-cell-electricity-effect-on-audio.31613/ :
"I can say with clear confidence that the is zero negatives heard when you have solar PROVIDED that you are using a system where each panel uses a micro inverter rather than a total system dependent inverter as these older systems do suffer sonically from the larger inverter. I have 30 panels on my roof each of which has its own micro inverter. This is the way to go both economically and also if you are and audiophile. Solar in my house has been nothing but positive for me in every way including audio"
Nice device and interesting ideas.
I'd suggest you audition replacing the PCB's under the inductors with point to point wiring. It may cost a little more to manufacture, but large copper lands under an inductor will couple in bad and unpredictable ways.
Just... try ... it. :)
Those music systems needing giant amplification will benefit from proper wiring receptacles instead of cheap 120 Volt Duplex designs.
And
Every serious reviewer should have a PS Audio Power Plant regenerating reliable AC power.
Conditioners don't cut-it from an Engineering perspective.
Assured, consistent, reliable, clean AC energy is the foundation of a wonderful Music system.
HighEnd gear is generally available in 240 VAC . ( even cheapo Schiit Gear is available in 240 VAC )
110vac is rather entry/beginner level ameteurish.
Tony in Venice
ps. where are the measurements from Mr.JA? Where are the specifications, if there are any?
" tonykaz: ps. where are the measurements from Mr.JA? Where are the specifications, if there are any?"
Yeah JA what gives?? would be nice to see/read and compare differences if any to what's going in to what's coming out, with some bench measurements, scope screen shots etc.
Cheers George
No measurements are conducted for power conditioners/regenerators and the like, apparently.
Power is the most scrutinised aspect of all electronic gear designing.
These Niagara designs were designed and measured.
Even I, as a civilian, own an oscilloscope. Some Audio gear came with Scopes built right in to the front panel.
I'll accept your opinion that the waveform (with issues) is an accurate representation of what Audioquest are trying to convey.
By the way: I represented Audioquest for a 3 year period of mid 1980s. I liked the Company and it's products especially the Talisman range of Phono Cartridges which I sold zillions of. I wonder if Audioquest manufacturers these Conditioners or buys them from ....? Will you let us know?
Tony in Venice
The AudioQuest Niagara units are designed and engineered in the USA, but are manufactured in Taiwan. The graphic used in the review, which is meant to illustrate the square wave response from a typical builder-grade outlet on a typical electrical system, was not generated from any measurements of the equipment under review. Its inclusion was outside my involvement in the review process.
Thanks for responding and revealing.
For the price of this entire line of product, I expect significantly greater engineering detail. Internal photos look like an improved surge protector device.
Can we have an engineering description of what a Conditioner actually is and does?
My suspicions are that Niagara conditioners are getting reviewer placement because a Stereophile Staff Reviewer now works for Audioquest. Mr.SM brings a whole lot of good-will.
Everything will effect/affect a Music System performance change, so it holds that a Niagara device will as well.
Still, I need to see this device bench analysed in order to justify the hefty price. You look rather technical with your peering eyes looking over those lowered eyeglasses ( like a doubting Judge in a Court trial ), I hoped that you would be providing such a useful service.
Thanks for writing back on this beautiful Sunday morning!
Tony in Venice
AudioQuest has a white paper that explains a lot of the science behind the Niagara series of conditioners. Here's a link: https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1138/Power-Demystified-whitepaper-8-23-18.pdf
AQ present a summary of each of the common Power Solutions available, ( with soft judgementals ) it reads like a marketing piece in support for their price point product decisions. Is it an engineering paper?
Thank you.
Typical of Stereophile doing a useful review, I'd hope for and expect a music room comparison reveal, kinda like any of the reviewers would present in an Amplifier Review. The Shunyta and PS Audio people would probably supply review samples ( as they are known to do ).
Tony in Venice
ps. nowadays, Stereophile reviewers have raised the Bar so incredibly high that we now have report expectations significantly beyond what was typical of only a few short couple of years ago.
It's from the manufacturer, so that's to be expected. That said, I thought it offered a very concise and cogent explanation of some of the challenges in putting together a good audio system with an often less than perfect electrical power grid. Regardless of your personal take on their approach, the AudioQuest equipment in use in my system has provided a superb foundation for the rest of my audio stack to shine like never before.
So if that 60Hz sine wave graphic:
1. Does not reflect the conditions of your A/C outlet when reviewing.
2. Has nothing to do with the write-up at all.
3. Cannot be used to illustrate what the device is supposed to improve. (There is no before/after...)
Is the illustration then supposed to help imply something about the box!? Who advocated to put that in there and why? How can the editor not recognize that this is misleading?
... as an accurate illustration of power coming from the wall--of what power conditioners have to contend with. It is from my NYC apartment. On the one hand, the caption makes it clear that this is merely "an example"--not the power the AudioQuest unit is dealing with. I do regret the last bit in the caption--"courtesy of ...," etc., which implies that Romex and cheap receptacles are responsible for the ugly waveform.
Often, including in this case, captions are added at the last moment, sometimes--as here--with too little thought. It was intended to be illustrative of common power issues and nothing more.
If I had had the AQ here, I would have measured its output as well and published that measurement. I did not.
Incidentally, the request to measure power conditioners is reasonable, but we will only do it once we've developed a comprehensive, meaningful set of measurements that can be consistently and efficiently performed. (This is also why we don't routinely measure turntables or digital-data sources.) Perhaps some day we will start doing that.
In any case, please note that the decision to add that graphic and is caption was mine; Tom Gibbs was not involved in the decision.
Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile
The manual for the PS Audio PowerPlant P3 has a graphic showing THD in and TDH out. In the example, THD in is 3.0 %and THD out is 0.1 %. I have seen one of these units in use in a residential setting, and the results were strikingly similar, with the THD in at 2.7% and THD out at 0.1%.
There must be an expensive Fluke meter that could provide reviewers with such data for products that do not make these THD measurements themselves.
There must be an expensive Fluke meter that could provide reviewers with such data for products that do not make these THD measurements themselves.
There are power-quality meters that would provide at least some of he desired information, selling for up to several $K depending on features. They're probably not ideal for hi-fi, however, since After they're aimed at diagnosing problems that cause machinery and electronics to fail, and often even that's challenging. (My wife runs a science lab at a university here in the city. A couple of years ago, scientific instruments started to fail for no apparent reason. They hired a forensic electrician, who monitored the power and generated a report. No obvious cause was found for the string of failures.) Hi-fi is a more subtle business.
It would be easy enough to get a snapshot of the power and determine the level of a few harmonics; I could do that with equipment I have on-hand (with, perhaps, the addition of a couple of power resistors). But one needs to have standards that are applicable to hi-fi. For example: One has to balance filtering with keeping the impedance low, including at fairly high frequencies; otherwise you slow down power-supply recharging. That means, for example, that using a low-pass filter to remove the lower harmonics of 60Hz may starve your power supply of current.
In short, we need first to decide what matters for hi-fi and figure out how to measure that. And once that's done, we'll need to establish routine procedures that can be carried out in the course of an already busy production schedule. And all that investigating and routinizing takes time. We'll see.
Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile
Thanks for the detailed explanation of just how complex an undertaking providing such measurements could be, and for a memorable term I had not heard before, even though I have heard about forensic torque wrenches (used to determine how much torque is needed to unfasten something, and to record the measurement using a tamper-resistant method that is admissable in a court of law, or so I was told).
Hi.
Yes, that is why I am pretty skeptical about those brand-named "hi-tech" powerline conditioners, however highpricing, that may affect the music quality.
In today's WiFi-everywhere environment, I am much more concerned about EMI/FRI noise invading our audios than the harmonic purity of the power grid.
That's why I have 4 dedicated powerlines installed for my audio rig only, connected directly to the main electric panel of my house. No more sharing the RFI/EMI polluted household power grid.
So I don't need to drop a bundle to acquire some hi-tech power conditioner affecting the music quality. Instead, I only use simple inline RFI/EMI filters from England (max insertion loss of 44DB 1-10MHz), compact & efficient, for low low price. One for each of my 4 dedicated powelines (1 exclusively for 125V analogue gears, 1 for my 3 active subs, 1 for digital gears only, including my 4K UHD WiFi TV, & finally one for my 220V gears from Japan).
Being very simple straight forward design, I find these English made inline filters do NOT affect the music at all. Fast & clean !
My bottom line is achieved: efficient powerline noise removal & music quality improvement & saving a big bundle.
Listening is believing
Jack L
This can be easily done with a 200 dollar PC-based oscilloscope using some basic electrical knowledge (safety). There's no need for the high-priced Fluke gear. In my house I see about 3.5% THD. Others I've measured around here and there have been as low as 2%. Certainly room for improvement and easily quantifiable when testing products, which I would have expected to see in the review of the AudioQuest Niagara. Ironically I live in Niagara Falls, seems I should demo one of these.
... the test equipment and use the same test protocol that sister publication Hi-Fi News already employs for turntable and tonearm measurements?
Perhaps, if I choose to.
Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile
In which I wasn't involved.
Designed and engineered in the USA, but manufactured in Taiwan. Not unlike a substantial cross-section of high-end gear.
During the years I replaced all my new stuff with vintage stuff. My preamps are from 1952 and the six mono tubed power amps from 1956. My past power condition units are unnecessary with these amps. The power treatment with caps,chokes and rectifier tubes seems to be overriding any power problem issues.
Hi
I still keep my 1960s Dynaco SP-2 & ST-70 combo on backburner, after my thorough upgrade. Yes, their original factory version did sound veiled, noisy & tubey - totally unacceptable for my critical ears.
But after ungrade (including the crucial pentode UL - triode switchable conversion of the output power stage of the ST-70), I do hear substantaail sonic improvemennt.
When I plugged them into one of my dedicated 125V powerlines (with in-line RFI/EMI noise filter) EXCLUSINVELY for analogue audios, I do
hear further sonic improvement.
Jack L
So with that picture of the "moderately bad" 60Hz sine wave in the article to suggest that the 50-cent receptacle is perhaps one of the things to blame. And that this presumably results in audible effects...
How did the Niagara deal with that? Is there a "before and after" to show that this device specifically made any difference?
There is no "before and after." That said, as I stated above, my new house was purpose built with 10-gauge Romex-wired, dedicated outlets with hospital grade outlets. I thought that would be good enough, but replacing the outlets with the AQ NRG Edisons was a surprisingly obvious upgrade. Before the AQ Niagara 3000 arrived, I had the twin subs plugged directly into the wall outlets, and they immediately played with better control, deeper bass, and there was a more seamless transition between the subs and the main loudspeakers. I know -- bring on the flame throwers -- but the difference wasn't subtle.
It would be great to have objective measurements for audiophile power products. I’d like to see how power regenerators compared with conditioners/distributors.
Although 100% subjective in nature, I found significant sound quality improvements to my system including a blacker quiet background (reminds me of going from a plasma to OLED TV) after adding the following Shunyata Research products: CopperConn duplex outlet, Sigma XC power cable (outlet to Denali),Denali 6000/S v2 power distributor, Alpha NR v2 power cable (Denali to Parasound Halo A21+), and Alpha NR v2 power cable (Denali to TEAC NT-505 (pre-amp/DAC)). There was at least a 200 hour break-in period where the sound quality kept improving. I am actually not sure it is over yet. Did you observe this as well?
Before this change, I was thinking about selling my F228Be speakers. Not anymore! My enthusiastic posts of this topic to the “Revel Owners” thread on the avsforum were censored and I was later banned from posting. Accusations of me being a schill which I am not and promoting snake oil etc. I guess they didn't want to hear the truth. :-)
And by "this" I mean power conditioners, "power plants," power cords and so on. The reaction of your equipment to these things seems to be pretty idiosyncratic. Quite some time ago, I bought a 20 amp Equi-tech balanced power transformer. It weighs a ton and has a bunch of high quality sockets on the back. It serves as isolation from the power mains and supplies two legs of 60 nominal volts each 180 degrees out of phase. So, the potential difference between them is a nominal 120 volts. Many of the effects described in the review are what I observed, especially with digital equipment and subwoofers. I really didn't observe any difference with amplification. (Krell and then BAT). I'm not enough of a technician to describe how or why this happens. . . but I don't find it to be "snake oil." That said, not every piece of wire I've tried in my system has had an effect, but some have. And I do know, first-hand that a designer of well-respected audiophile amplification equipment is not fond of having his stuff connected to anything other than the wall outlet.
I couldn't agree more, and while the overall improvements to my system have been substantial, it would definitely be a good idea to "try it before you buy it" if at all possible. While I didn't notice a startling improvement with the Bel Canto e1X amplifier -- which already has a world-class power supply built in -- the improved performance from my old Emotiva XPA-1L mono amps boggled me! And I was on the verge of listing them on one of the audio resale sites.
...the model number is the same as the price. It's like a two-fer: you get a logo and a permanent price sticker on the fascia!
connected to this box of snake oil.
"...The real eye-opener, however, was when the music stopped: The absolute quiet in my room was almost ghostly compared to the state I was accustomed to."
With the "before and after" drop in the ambient noise level that perceptually noticeable to you, would not the drop in dB also be easy to measure?