Solid State Power Amp Reviews

Moon by Simaudio 888 monoblock power amplifier Associated Equipment

Sidebar 2: Associated Equipment

Analog Sources: Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Castellon stand; Technics SL-1000R turntable; Kuzma 4Point, SAT, Technics tonearms; Lyra Atlas, Atlas SL, Atlas SL mono, Etna, Etna SL cartridges; Haniwa HCTR01 Mk.II, Miyajima Laboratory Zero (mono) & Madake, Ortofon Anna & A95, van den Hul Colibri XGW Stradivarius Signature phono cartridges.
Digital Sources: dCS Rossini CD player/DAC, Lynx Hilo A/D-D/A converter; Sugar Cube SC-1 A/D + pop & click remover; Meridian Digital Media System; Pure Vinyl & Vinyl Studio software.
Preamplification: Ypsilon MC-10L & MC-16L step-up transformers; Ypsilon VPS-100, CH Precision P1 (with X1 power supply) phono preamplifiers; CH Precision L1, darTZeel NHB-18S preamplifiers.
Power Amplifiers: darTZeel NHB-458 monoblocks.
Loudspeakers: EgglestonWorks Viginti, Sonus Faber Aida, Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx.
Cables: Interconnect: Chord Company Sarum T (S/PDIF); Luminous Audio Technolog/y Silver Reference; Stealth Sakra, Indra; TARA Labs Air Evolution, Zero, Zero Evolution; Teresonic Clarison Gold. Speaker: TARA Labs Omega Evolution SP. AC: AudioQuest Dragon, Dynamic Design Heritage AE15 Digital.
Accessories: AudioQuest Niagara 7000 power conditioner; Oyaide AC wall box & receptacles; ASC Tube Traps; RPG BAD, Skyline, Abffusor panels; Stillpoints Aperture Room panels; Synergistic Research UEF products (various); Symposium Ultra platform; HRS Signature SXR, Stillpoints ESS stands; Finite Elemente Pagode amplifier stands; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Furutech record demagnetizer & deStat; Audiodesksysteme Gläss Pro, Loricraft PRC4 Deluxe record-cleaning machines.—Michael Fremer

COMPANY INFO
Simaudio Ltd.
US: Simaudio Ltd.
2002 Ridge Road
Champlain, NY 12919
(450) 449-2212
www.simaudio.com
ARTICLE CONTENTS

COMMENTS
Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 26, 2018 - 12:05pm

Why so "Heavy"? ........... Linkin Park :-) ..........

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 26, 2018 - 3:26pm

... "could pump a couple of thousand watts into the Aida — a speaker that in my room needs, on average, probably less than 20W!"

Over on the Harbeth forum, Alan Shaw posted an example of a music piece that exhibited a dynamic range of about 22dB. In that case, even if your speakers required an average power of only 20W, you'd still need an amp capable of an output of about 3,200W to reproduce the instantaneous +22dB high peaks without clipping.

Does that mean you need an amp that can output 1, 2, or 3kW continuously and, as a result, costs $100K and weighs several hundred pounds? Not at all.

Simaudio should have the skunkworks engineers take a look at the old Hitachi class G amps and then design a new amp which can output maybe 100W-200W continuously and possibly 500W-1kW for some fraction of a second - and one that wouldn't need to cost a fortune and weigh a proverbial ton.

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 26, 2018 - 5:04pm

Sensitivity of Harbeth SHL5's are 86dB/1W/1m, 20W would produce a scary 99dB at 1m . Not sure how the journalist came to the figure of 20W. If you need 22dB headroom peaks off a base of 1W which is already very loud, you'll need an amp clean to 160W. Most decent amps rated 100W continuous should be able to meet this.

Anton's picture
Submitted by Anton on July 26, 2018 - 5:37pm

You are spot on.

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 27, 2018 - 2:15am

... live music - even when using unamplified acoustic instruments. The key is peak - not continuous.

Watch this video of a Harbeth Monitor 40 demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRMR9JZ1m0s

The peak power shown on the amplifier's display is close to 800W, which means that the peak output from the speakers is about 115dB SPL. No one in the room seems to be distressed by those sound levels.

The demo track being played is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhuJxdaU87I

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 27, 2018 - 6:24am

Yes and yes. And you're absolutely right.

Can Mr. Shaw's walking to the back of the room at position 5:08 on the video be taken as distress? How far from the speaker do you estimate he was finally standing and how many dB do you estimate that to be, as opposed to where he was standing initially?

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 27, 2018 - 1:34pm

... was too loud for Mr. Shaw, note that they were evaluating the first samples of the latest version of the Monitor 40 speaker. Perhaps he just wanted to determine how the speakers sounded from farther back in the room. In any event, no one there has their fingers in their ears or seems to be rushing to turn down the volume control.

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 28, 2018 - 4:58am

'..'

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 27, 2018 - 4:37pm

'...no one there has their fingers in their ears or seems to be rushing to turn down the volume control.'

… which is a big credit to the speakers and the electronics. But how many people listen to music like this, hours on end, in a room this big, a distance from the speakers at what still could be 99 to 100dB? Yes it proves a point, thank you gentlemen, but in doing so lost some pragmatic credibility in my estimation. I’m surprised Mr. Shaw would actually post this video because I think it’s insincere, especially when he says Harbeths are nearfield monitors.

A Ferrari can flex its muscles in certain conditions e.g. on a racetrack. A Ferrari will also work on a normal road but it won’t be (and shouldn’t be) using its full capabilities when a Toyota Camry will do the job.

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 28, 2018 - 6:59am

... from the CES in 2015, also with CH Precision amps.
As noted in the comments, there is one peak power reading of over 1700W and another of almost 1200W.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP8i8F62OlM

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 8:51am

So, is 24 Bit recording and playback better than 16 Bits? :-) ...........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 9:37am

Google search says, maximum sound pressure levels of classical music played by an orchestra in a concert hall is 98 db :-) ...........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 10:40am

Unless we are recording 1812 cannons .......... Loudest cannon according to Google 120 db :-) ..........

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 27, 2018 - 4:29pm

Lets jog our memory on Newtons 2nd law. Can a domestic loudspeaker reproduce the sound of a cannon? or is what we hear on Kunzel's 1812 a scaled version for our living rooms?

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 5:03pm

Which begs the question ......... How many of us are willing, able and prepared for listening to the sound of firing cannons in our listening rooms? ........... Please raise your hands :-) ...........

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 27, 2018 - 5:08pm

...and before the five-oh starts showing up in our street.

Anton's picture
Submitted by Anton on July 28, 2018 - 8:41am

1812 cannons?

Come on. I want accurate reproduction of that jet engine on "Back in the USSR" at 120 - 140 dB.

I wanna experience the sensation of a Sperm Whale echolocating right there in front on me. (Gotta be careful when you read that word, you know...;-D...) 174 dB.

We are audiophiles, we need to dedicate ourselves to accurate recreation of the live event!

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 28, 2018 - 2:43pm

According to Google ......... Blue Whales are the loudest on the planet, 188 db ........... Howler Monkey, a land animal is second loudest, 140 db .......... And yes, Blue Whales can sing :-) ..........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 29, 2018 - 4:39am

According to Google ........... Tiger Pistol Shrimp is the loudest 200 db ........ It lives under sea .......... Blue Whale 2nd loudest 188 db .......... Yes, blue whales can sing :-) ...........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 29, 2018 - 9:30am

These instruments can get loud ........... Trumpet 110 db, clarinet 114 db, trombone 115 db ...........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 29, 2018 - 12:49pm

Transmission line speakers use somewhat similar principle for bass frequencies .........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 29, 2018 - 12:55pm

Bose "wave guide" technology is somewhat similar ..............

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 4:43pm

According to Wikipedia, the "perceived" dynamic range of 16 bit audio can be 120 db or more with noise-shaped dither ............

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 27, 2018 - 1:27pm

http://www.speech.kth.se/prod/publications/files/qpsr/1982/1982_23_1_031-048.pdf

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 4:01pm

The report you are referring to is from 1982 ......... I don't know whether that matters or not .......... The information I got is from Google ......... I don't know whether that info is current or not ........ You can check Google if you are interested .........

John Atkinson's picture
Submitted by John Atkinson on July 28, 2018 - 4:27am
Bogolu Haranath wrote:
Google search says, maximum sound pressure levels of classical music played by an orchestra in a concert hall is 98 db :-)

That's an average or RMS level, which is not relevant to amplifier clipping. What matters is the peak value. In the early 1980s I designed and built a true peak-reading SPL meter for an article published in Hi-Fi News magazine. IIRC, the highest peak I measured with that meter at a classical orchestral concert from a mid-hall seat was 108dB (unweighted).

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Herb Reichert's picture
Submitted by Herb Reichert on July 27, 2018 - 6:10pm

from that Alan Shaw video is a SPL meter (I have two in my iPhone) - why not show the viewer those 22dBs in action? I want to SEE that 115dB SPL. and a volt-amp meter accross the amplifier's output terminals!

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 28, 2018 - 3:06am

... a speaker sensitivity of 86dB/1W/1m should result in a peak SPL of about 115dB (for each speaker).

CH Precision claim that their amp is equipped with a "DSP that monitors the instantaneous output voltage and current" and that "both values are sampled at around 100 kHz, ensuring peak values are properly detected." If you doubt the accuracy of the power readings, ask Cossy or Heeb for the specifics of their power monitoring circuit and display.

Regarding the sound level meter on your iPhone, you should verify the response time of the meter. Most inexpensive SPL meters have a relatively slow response time and won't be able to capture instantaneous peaks with a duration in the millisecond range. Also, the meter must have a peak hold function in order to allow you to read those peak levels. Typically, this sort of performance is only available from professional instruments, such as those from B&K.

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 28, 2018 - 7:03am

Google search says, for a 86 db sensitive speaker we need 1024 watts to produce 116 db SPL ......... The same watts can produce 120 db SPL from a 90 db sensitive speaker .............

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 28, 2018 - 5:08pm

Someone still has to sit no more than 1 meter away from the speakers to appreciate each and every one of those decibels.

hifiluver's picture
Submitted by hifiluver on July 28, 2018 - 5:13pm

The Dutch gentlemen mentioned the amps are bridged. If the measurement is not compensating for this, we might be seeing twice the Watts being indicated on the meters.

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 26, 2018 - 4:31pm

I remember several years ago one of the audio reviewers did some welding with one of the class A amps from Mark Levinson ......... JA may know about this ........ Wonder whether these Sim Audio amps can do welding? :-) ..........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 26, 2018 - 5:05pm

I think the audio reviewer was David Clark and the amps were ML No: 20 :-) ...........

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 26, 2018 - 5:44pm

Ok ...... Surprisingly this info is available on Google ........... I checked it after I posted the above comments ........... It is true ...... The reviewer was David Clark and the amps were ML No.20 .......... What is even more surprising is that those class A amps were only lukewarm to touch even after the welding ....... Google even has the picture of the welded steel on the website :-) ...........

ppgr's picture
Submitted by ppgr on July 26, 2018 - 5:05pm

"Footnote 1: I was using the Moon 888s when I measured the spatially averaged frequency responses of the EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers that Michael reviewed in June, and one of the amplifiers went into protection a couple of times then." An 800 watts amplifier going into protection several times while driving a pair of speakers??? Either the speakers - or the amplifiers - are not optimally engineered fro real life, or am I missing something?

John Atkinson's picture
Submitted by John Atkinson on July 27, 2018 - 4:23am
ppgr wrote:
"I was using the Moon 888s when I measured the spatially averaged frequency responses of the EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers that Michael reviewed in June, and one of the amplifiers went into protection a couple of times then."

I didn't have time to investigate further, I am afraid.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on August 9, 2020 - 2:10pm

Muscle amp :-) ......

Charles E Flynn's picture
Submitted by Charles E Flynn on July 26, 2018 - 6:19pm

I have seen so far only bits and pieces of this new eight-part series from HBO, but in every scene in which it appears that I have seen, the director and cinematographer have made the stereo system unusually intriguing, even when it appears in the background, out-of-focus:

http://www.vulture.com/article/sharp-objects-home-stereo-system.html

John Atkinson's picture
Submitted by John Atkinson on July 27, 2018 - 4:18am
Simaudio electronics and Dynaudio speakers.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 7:31am

It appears that the amps are not 888s ............. If they were, the whole cabinet would have come crashing down with 600 pounds of weight :-) ............

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 27, 2018 - 7:44am

Simaudio thanks you for all the support they are getting on this forum :-) .............

ToeJam's picture
Submitted by ToeJam on July 27, 2018 - 2:23pm

They certainly are nice looking.

Indydan's picture
Submitted by Indydan on July 27, 2018 - 3:25pm

If Stereophile could get a review sample of the Naim Statement system, a review and comparison to the Moon 888 would be great!

I had the chance to hear the Naim Statement with Sonus Faber Aida's. That is an experience I will never forget!

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on August 9, 2020 - 2:14pm

Bryston has an amp 28-B mono-blocks, which can put out 1000 watts into 8 Ohms ......... Stereophile has reviewed them :-) .............

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 28, 2018 - 9:17am

May be PS audio could make 1000 watt class-D mono-blocks? :-) .............

dumbo's picture
Submitted by dumbo on July 28, 2018 - 7:35pm

@JA

Question about this statement which I see on occasion for various Amp measurement tests:

"but it's fair to note that I didn't hold the wall voltage constant for this test"

How does one go about holding the wall voltage constant in a domestic living environment?

Thanks

John Atkinson's picture
Submitted by John Atkinson on July 29, 2018 - 4:17am
dumbo wrote:
How does one go about holding the wall voltage constant in a domestic living environment?

Short answer: you can't, hence my measurements reflect an amplifier's output power under real-world conditions.

Longer answer: with an amplifier with unregulated power supply (almost all of them), if the wall voltage drops as the amplifier's demand for current increases, it will clip at a lower power than if the wall voltage was held constant. Manufacturers therefore specify the maximum power with a constant wall voltage.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Ortofan's picture
Submitted by Ortofan on July 29, 2018 - 7:42am

... variac or a power conditioner enable manual or automatic compensation for changes in AC line voltage?

https://www.variac.com/staco_3PN10_20.htm

https://www.tripplite.com/2400w-120v-power-conditioner-automatic-voltage-regulation-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets~LC2400

Bogolu Haranath's picture
Submitted by Bogolu Haranath on July 30, 2018 - 7:07am

Both Variac and Tripp-lite have several negative reviews on Amazon ........ Like, smoke coming out, plastic burning etc. ..............

John Atkinson's picture
Submitted by John Atkinson on July 30, 2018 - 1:34pm
Ortofan wrote:
Wouldn't either a variac or a power conditioner enable manual or automatic compensation for changes in AC line voltage?

It would, though a Variac large enough to maintain a constant AC voltage with this Moon amplifier would be enormous. I do have a smaller Variac, but I decided years ago that our measurements of output power would reflect what our readers would experience, not what an amplifier would deliver under perfect conditions.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

allhifi's picture
Submitted by allhifi on February 7, 2019 - 4:43pm

I suppose the best advice in ts review would be taken from the author himself:

" ...Don't ever forget: Any equipment review is built only on the shaky foundation of the review sample's interactions with the system's other components."

pj

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