Rogers High Fidelity 65V-1 integrated amplifier Page 2

I wish you could have heard how physically present and emotionally intimate the Rogers 65V-1 made Buddy Holly's Down the Line: Rarities (2 CDs, Decca B0011675-02) feel through the DeVore Orangutan O/93s. The sense of Holly's physical presence was so captivating that I fell into a Holly listening binge that has yet to end. I'm infatuated with his famous Apartment Tapes, recorded in December 1958 in the living room of the Manhattan flat he shared with his new wife, Mar°a Elena Santiago, only weeks before his death at the age of 22.

I didn't need golden ears or laboratory meters to recognize that these recordings were being reproduced with unusual insight. Holly's acoustic guitar, his singing and speaking voice; Mar°a Elena's laughing, talking, and chatting on the phone—it all sounded so hauntingly real that I kept playing these tracks over and over. These home recordings, made on an Ampex R2R deck, delivered the type of intimacy I seek from a quality hi-fi. I could easily tell that Holly was sitting on his couch, his back to a window and an acoustic guitar on his lap. I could tell that he was recording into a single microphone on a short stand perched on the coffee table in front of him. In one track, as Mar°a Elena speaks to Holly from across the room, you can hear the Fifth Avenue traffic outside. Holly laughs a stoned laugh, then Mar°a Elena seems to pick up the mike, giggle mockingly, and loudly count to 10 in Spanish. The DeVore speakers and Rogers amplifier (EL34s in triode) made every tape-hiss–filled second monumentally human—like real art!

The Rogers 65V-1 let the vivid, undoctored reality of these tapes come through with eerie, preternatural directness. The last song on this set—"Smokey Joe's Café," a Leiber and Stoller masterpiece—was recorded only days before Holly's death. He plays an electric guitar, and every time the song ends, I sit there staring blankly into space, contemplating his genius, and what my Facebook friend meant by "an intimacy with music like no other."

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Comparisons
Still using the DeVore O/93s, I swapped out the Rogers 65V-1 for another tubed, single-ended integrated amp, the Line Magnetic LM-518 IA ($4400)—except that the 77-lb (!) LM-518 uses directly heated 845 triode tubes and puts out 22Wpc, and its power supply is tube-rectified and choke-filtered. Through the LM-518, music seemed stronger, more whole, continuous, and vividly alive. Bass attack and decay, which are not the LM-518's specialties, were better defined. The treble was less extended than with the 65V-1, but more refined. Most important, the LM-518 put musical energy into my room with greater locomotive force that I believe was not simply the result of more watts, but of the Line Magnetic's lower output impedance—1.1 ohms, vs the Rogers's 8.5 ohms—and more substantial power and output transformers. The LM-518's heavy iron seemed to generate less hesitancy, lower distortion, greater ease of rhythmic flow, and enhanced corporeality.

The Rogers's EL34s beat the Line Magnetic's 845s in vocal tone and instrumental textures. In Ultralinear and triode modes, the 65V-1 had an uncanny ability to present instruments and voices in vivid textural relief. In my world, proper tone and highly tactile instrumental textures are major virtues.

Paired with the Zu Audio Soul Supremes
To try the Rogers 65V-1 in a versatile, moderately priced system, I used it with HoloAudio's Spring "Kitsuné Tuned Edition" Level 3 DAC ($2499), connected to my stoop-sale Integra DPS-7.2 DVD player used as a CD transport with Kimber Kable's D60 Data Flex Studio coaxial digital cable ($234.5/0.5m), and to the Rogers with Triode Wire Labs' Spirit interconnects ($349/m). The 65V-1, with EL34 tubes in triode mode, was tethered to the Zu Audio Soul Supreme speakers ($4500/pair) with 5' leads of Triode Wire Labs' American speaker cables ($699).

The primary effect of this rig was arguably some of the most lifelike reproduction of voices I can remember hearing. Proper reproduction of the human voice is not subtle. It is extremely rare when a reproduced voice sounds anything like a real voice. With the above-mentioned Buddy Holly CD and the Alan Lomax Collection's Southern Journey, Volume 2: Ballads and Breakdowns—Songs from the Southern Mountains (CD, Rounder Select 1702), the musical content and the quality of its reproduction held my attention with unusually high levels of I-was-there tonal and spatial realism. Not only did voices sound extraordinarily lifelike, the singers' articulation of words was extra-intelligible.

Surprisingly, the EL34-triode Rogers-Zu partnership delivered Music of Edgard Varèse, with Robert Craft conducting woodwinds, brass, and percussion ("six-eye" LP, Columbia Masterworks MS 6146) with LOUD deep bass and high-impact fidelity. In fact, the playing of this recording was one of the finest of my many fine moments with the 65V-1. Instrumental tone was a few clicks cooler than neutral, but textures seemed unusually intense.

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The Rogers drove the Soul Supremes with unprecedented three-dimensionality. Bass was less deep, weighty, and well-drawn than it is with my First Watt J2 amp. But seldom have the Zus sounded so microdetailed or coherent. This surprisingly revealing system flowed easily, diving deep into these seductive Varèse compositions. By the end of side 2, I was drenched in music and totally spent.

Ultralinear vs Triode
First realized in 1937, by audio god Alan Blumlein (1903–1942), Ultralinear operation yields somewhat reduced amounts of each of the aforementioned pentode-triode characteristics. Ultralinear mode is typically well sorted, unobtrusive, competent at everything, never great at anything.

Although I might describe the audio character of pure pentodes as a little peaky-pointy, I like that mode of operation—because it delivers a tube's full gain and power. Best of all, it pure pentode operation showcases instrumental textures in spiderweb-filigree ways. The character of pure pentode transparency is dark, deep, emphatically detailed, and highly viscous. Pianos sound especially tangible with pentodes: linear and Apollonian.

Triode-wired pentodes make bass with softer edges, and sound that's slightly congested or diffuse. Textures are less bas-relief than with a pure pentode. But triode wiring offsets these deficiencies by adding an intoxicatingly color-saturated tonality. Aural images on triode soundstages seem more physical, more brightly illuminated: painterly and Dionysian.

Switching between the Rogers 65V-1's triode and Ultralinear modes yielded results exactly like those just described. With the low-sensitivity Falcon LS3/5a's, I preferred the extra bite, punch, and muscle of Ultralinear. The Zu Soul Supremes and DeVore Orangutan O/93s were both sensitive enough to let me relax, focus on the recording, never obsess about clipping, and luxuriate in the delicacy, intimacy, and more saturated colors of triode-wired pentode sound.

Driving Headphones
The 65V-1's headphone output had the same basic sound character as its speaker output—but I can't say it yielded dead-quiet, ink-black spaces, especially with such low-sensitivity headphones as the HiFiMan Susvaras, with their impedance of 60 ohms and their sensitivity of 83dB/mW/kHz. The Rogers drove the HiFiMans to only moderate levels, and with a slight, hard dullness to the sound.

The 65V-1's headphone amp achieved its most neutral, voice-articulate, soundstage-revealing best with the more sensitive Focal Utopias (80 ohms, 104dB/mW/kHz). With the title track of the Alan Lomax Collection's Southern Journey, Volume 6: Sheep, Sheep, Don'tcha Know the Road—Southern Music, Sacred and Sinful (CD, Rounder Select 1706), sung by Bessie Jones and the Sea Island Singers, a single person is clapping his or her hands about 20" from the mike; I swear, with the 65V-1, I could hear each compression of the palms' flesh squeezing out air. The room was more accurately described, if less colorfully presented, than with any of my other headphone amps.

Unfortunately, the joys of this extraordinary resolution were limited. Overall, the 65V-1's headphone sound seemed not like sweet-glowing, triode-wired, single-ended EL34s, but slightly dulled and hard—more like solid-state with too much feedback.

Conclusions
I listened to the 65V-1 with both the Mullard EL34 and Gold Lion KT88 tubes. The KT88s delivered a bigger fist and a stronger blow—their detail was more etched. But my most pleasurable experiences—the ones I write about here—were with EL34s.

About 1989, I was powering a variety of highly sensitive loudspeakers with a 2W, push-pull, mono amplifier designed and built by Ken Shindo, of Shindo Laboratory; its single output tube was a 10Y/VT25 directly heated triode. Its output was so low that I couldn't stop obsessing: Is this enough power? I constantly cocked an ear, listening for clipping distortion. Nevertheless, while driving a fresh pair of Altec Lansing 604B full-range drivers fitted to very large enclosures (footnote 1), I experienced unprecedented levels of vividness of vocal tone and instrumental texture—something that, ever since, I've sought but never found. I believe the Rogers High Fidelity 65V-1 integrated amplifier, driving the Zu Audio Soul Supremes, may have come close to my memories of that incredible combination of Shindo amp and Altec speaker. I also believe that some part of the Rogers-Zu combo's rich tones and vivid textures may be a consequence of the 65V-1's high output impedance. But I don't care. The effect is emotionally engaging.

The 65V-1 is a charming, satisfying amplifier that, to reveal anything near its full potential, needs to be paired with extra-sensitive (ie, greater than 92dB/W/m) speakers whose average impedance exceeds 8 ohms. Matched to a pair of such speakers (models from Audio Note, Avantgarde, DeVore, Klipsch, Tekton, Volti, Voxativ, and Zu come quickly to mind), the Rogers 65V-1 should exhibit most of those traits my Facebook friends ascribed to single-ended amplifiers, and especially: intimacy with the music, incomparable midrange texture, and eerie, preternatural tonality.

Rogers High Fidelity's 65V-1 is an uncommon audio product in search of uncommon audiophiles. Might you be one of them?



Footnote 1: Altec's literature described the 604B as "The most efficient all-range speaker unit ever built."
COMPANY INFO
Rogers High Fidelity
28 Church Street
Warwick, NY 10990
(845) 987-7744
ARTICLE CONTENTS

COMMENTS
tonykaz's picture

... for a Story!

HR does the bestist "Click-Bait" in the Audiophile Business.

I'll tell ya who that might be: Steve G visiting the Bunker delivering an On-Site Vlog Report. That geeky guy with all those Pass Apleflyers stacked up on his Altar to Gear Collecting. The very same guy that pointed me to Shit Asgard Amplification ( back in 2011, along with his side-man Tyll ) , this Guy has more Integrity than nearly anyone in NY,NY for gods sake. On top of it all he's got a way-cool shirt collection. Hmm.

This tiny Amp Review is one of the best Reads of the Year, so far.

Steve G & HR seemed to have survived the big Buy-out, phew, I was getting worried.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed.

Please suggest that Steve spend some of his Mountainous Patereon Money on a Canon 6D & Vlog Lense system. The lads at B&H are waiting for him to walk thru their doors. Steve G can become the Casey Neistat of the Audio World!

Tony in Michigan

ps. I once owned a Nisson Pulsar 5 door Hatchback with 60 horsepower. It was that fastest little get around car I ever owned, it had to be driven intelligently but it delivered exceptional performance. QRP is a thinking man's effective tool.

ps. My Vote for Quote of the Year: "never heard an EL84 amp I didn't like"

ps. Mr. JohnnyThunder corrected me and my quoting of the quote. it's EL34 not EL84! Thanks Mr.Thunder

johnnythunder's picture

which is fab especially as I agree. It's the EL 34 tube that he is talking about the EL 84. EL 84s are good but EL 34s are magical.

tonykaz's picture

Right you are !!

I was in too much of a rush, trying to push out that Comment in between two scheduled things.

Plus, I wanted to be the FIRST one to respond, resulting in another proof for the Life Rule : "More haste, less speed" .

Thanks for writing and making the correction,

You da Man!!

Tony in Michigan

ps. EL34s even have a nicer smell. ( if anyone's in to that sort of thing, like I am )

Jason P Jackson's picture

I agree. It was this review that convinced me enough to get a yearly subs'. Mags like this one have their fair share of waffle. Nevertheless, good with the bad. And I've been known for my own occasional waffle.

mrkaic's picture

"Now I'm reporting on another class-A, single-ended amplifier, this one really low-powered. The 65V-1 integrated amplifier ($4000) uses EL34 or KT88 pentode tubes—at the time of purchase, the user specifies his or her preference—and is made by mainstream manufacturer Rogers High Fidelity, in Warwick, New York."

KT88 are TETRODES. KT stands for "kinkless tetrode". What an elementary mistake!!

Herb Reichert's picture

are Genalex and manufactured by New Sensor:

https://www.newsensor.com/pdf/genalex/kt88-genalex.pdf

they have five elements

mrkaic's picture

...the Genalex KT88 is just like any other KT88. It has the plate, the control grid, the screen grid, the cathode, and a pair of beam forming plates that are both connected to the cathode. That seems like five elements (counting the beam plate pair as one element) but only four different active electrodes exist in this type of tube, because the beam forming plates are connected to the cathode inside the tube. You can see that in the link you provided.

Now, a pentode has the plate and the cathode. It also has three grids: control, screen and suppression. Each of these elements has an active electrode, hence pentode — five active electrodes.

See this, for example https://drtube.com/datasheets/el34-sed2002.pdf

So, Genalex can call their KT88 whatever they want, but according to their own scheme, their KT88 has four active electrodes. The nomenclature depends on the number of active electrodes— Hence KT88 is a tetrode.

jmsent's picture

the original MO Valve Genalex datasheet calls the KT88 a beam tetrode. The New Sensor Genalex datasheet calls the same tube a beam pentode. The RCA datasheet calls it a "beam power tube". Seems like a grey area.

Herb Reichert's picture

If memory serves me, MO Valve invented the KT88 and it is as they say: a beam tetrode. But at that time, Phillips owned the patent for the power pentode and therefore all companies not associated with Phillips or unwilling to pay the license fee were forced to make “beam tetrodes” wherein instead of grid 3, the suppressor grid, a beam tetrode uses the concentration of the ion stream to do the same job. I call them all “beam tubes” as that is their common distinction.

I did however, as a proper fact-checking journalist, have to call the Rogers’ KT88s what their manufacturer calls them – pentodes. (Why does New Sensor call them beam pentodes? Don’t know. Maybe the Phillips patent is still in effect?)

But these are just words. To me, beam tubes have a unique sound character of their own, which, depending on the materials used in their construction, can range from turbocharged noisy harsh to beautifully lucid and hyper-detailed – like the original MO Valve KT88 beam tetrode.

Sorry for the confusion

herb

mrkaic's picture

You put a lot of effort into fact checking, that is quite amazing. Many thanks.

hifiluver's picture

Regarding Fig 2. Does this mean this amp will sound like it has a dip around the human voice with a shrill sound as the frequency goes up? My 15 year old Yamaha surround amp is a Ferrari compared to this Ford Model T.

johnnythunder's picture

would be able to discern the difference in sound quality between the Rogers amp and your "15 year old Yamaha surround amp." Obviously, I wouldn't use the Rogers amp for a home theatre system playing a Michael Bay film but that's another story entirely.

dce22's picture

It's 4000 bucks garbage for that kind of money you can buy one of the best if not the best tube amp in the world

Music Reference RM-200

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-reference-rm-200-mkii-power-amplifier

ironically designed by the other Roger, Rogers needs to step up it's game if it wants to compete with Music Reference.

mrkaic's picture

Or one could buy a Quad VA One, also a superb amplifier.

ok's picture

..a tube guy after all.

mrkaic's picture

I enjoy my little VA One tremendously.

ok's picture

..as I always suspected!

johnnythunder's picture

for a $4k expenditure. Or that it even looks good (it doesn't in my opinion.) I have no doubt that the Music Reference is a fine sounding amp (it looks great too.) My comment was for the equally glib comparison of the Rogers vs. a 15 yr. old Yamaha surround sound amp.

mrkaic's picture

...probably look better than anything out there. If you can't measure gear, you might be very happy with them -- as was I, for a time. My LM-216 sounded good and looked marvelous. But after I had measured it, I had to return it. I suspect that the thing must have had bad output transformers, since the response to square wave input showed intolerable ringing. So, there you go. Still miss the looks of that amp, but one has to be ruthless with gear that measures poorly. Looks are not everything, ears can be deceived easily, but oscilloscopes don't lie (if you know what you are doing). Incidentally, Quad VA One has great looks and measures well.

johnnythunder's picture

by a group that has obviously done their vintage audio equipment homework. I actually am not looking for a new amp. I have a Lector ZXT-60 hybrid integrated. The design is simple and elegant and has a high wife acceptance factor. She did not want exposed valves. An upgrade for me would probably be for something in the French Audiomat line. Class A. EL 34s. Synergistic match with my French JMR speakers.

woodford's picture

thanks for the great review- it's wonderful reading.

i wonder how the amp might sound w/ KT77s? in my, admittedly limited, experience KT77s provide the saturation of EL34s you speak of, with the punch and dynamics of KT88s. i use them in my Icon Audio ST40 in Triode mode, and they sound fabulous.

btw, the Icon is an amp stereophile should review.

John Atkinson's picture
woodford wrote:
i wonder how the amp might sound w/ KT77s? in my, admittedly limited, experience KT77s provide the saturation of EL34s you speak of, with the punch and dynamics of KT88s.

Years ago I replaced the EL34S in my Michaelson & Austin TVA-10 with KT77s that I had purchased from the M-O Valve Company. My experience was similar to yours.

woodford wrote:
i use them in my Icon Audio ST40 in Triode mode, and they sound fabulous. btw, the Icon is an amp stereophile should review.

As Icon currently has just 2 retailers in the US, the brand doesn't qualify for a full review. (We require a brand be available from 5 or more US dealers.)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

woodford's picture

I wonder whether the 5 dealer policy should be revisited for an age in which many consumers do their shopping online. assuming of course the online dealer (in this case, Music Direct) is reputable, and services all or most of the country.

in any event, it's a great amp in my opinion, easily competitive with similar amps from Line Magnetic, Prima Luna, et al.

dalethorn's picture

To me, online buying raises the issue of returned merchandise. I wouldn't expect most returned items to be repackaged and sold as new, but premium amps aren't like clothing and other easily exchanged or refunded goods sold online, and I wouldn't expect such dealers to take a beating having to sell the returned items as used.

Anton's picture

Seems like an online product, to me, as well.

Good return policy, factory warranted online dealer...I'd give it thumbs up!

woodford's picture

John- i wonder whether there's really a material difference between domestic manufacturers like Zu and Schiit that sell direct, and imports like Icon which sell primarily through a single online outlet. Stereophile has reviewed products from both of the former.

tonykaz's picture

I'd have no trouble accepting any of their stuff which sells used on Ebay for around 80% + for a "Previously Owned" current Model.

Besides...

... used eBay prices are a dam good way to evaluate Gear's ability to please "Real" owners.

Tony in Michigan

ps. most Loudspeakers don't do well in the Used Market but those cute little LS3/5s still get mucho dinero ( x5 original Retail Prices )

rt66indierock's picture

I read your Rogers view just before I left for T.H.E. Show. When I walked into Room 312 and saw the AGD Vivance Monoblock I thought of your first paragraph. Give them Class D in a Vacuum tube and audiophiles will lap it up.

johnnythunder's picture

I'd prefer Rogers hold down the Class A tube fort the good of all audiophiles (that like low power and the inherent restrictions/sonic benefits of Class A amp that is.) If I could own one Rogers product and had the space for a larger tube phono stage it would be the Rogers PA-1A.

rt66indierock's picture

This is class D in the tube. Looks like a tube mono amp. Rogue is a hybrid. This isn't.

I listened for a long time to the amp at T.H.E. Show because of the Allen Sides speakers. Because who am I kidding there are things I like and his Eureka speakers have them. Very surprising for a speaker with a port. The Monterey's in a bad room sounded pretty good.

hifiluver's picture

i have a looping video of an open fire place on my flat panel display but it doesn’t keep me warm in winter.

Tubes are funny honeys. They have a freq. response which can be replicated on a solid state amp coupled to a $50 dollar second hand graphic equaliser. The harmonic distortion can be introduced with shareware software. Pity I can’t replicate the lack of clean transparent power with little control over those big woofers.

13DoW's picture

There is very little say that is positive about the measured performance "But props to Roger Gibboni for the useful iPad app" :)

billyb's picture

Mr. Atkinson,
Would it be fair to say this review includes one of the worst test bench results for an amplifier in Stereophile history?
Obviously, with a square wave and distortion like that, there is much to criticize.

We all know test results only tell part of the story from a subjective listening perspective, but when you receive such an outlier on the bench wouldn’t you be doing a service to the readers to expound in a leeetle more detail than the mic drop above implies?

lousyreeds1's picture

Herb, I would love to know how Decware's low-watt and VERY affordable SET amps perform in your system up against the likes of Pass, Line Magnetic, Rogers, etc. Seems like with your small space and high-sensitivity speaker collection, Decware could be a good fit.

Thanks for the great review.

dalethorn's picture

I'd add a vote for Decware as well. They put a lot of emphasis on keeping the signal path as clean and uncluttered as possible, even if there's a risk of blowing a component because they don't include as much protection as their competitors.

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