Rogers High Fidelity 65V-1 integrated amplifier Art Dudley January 2019

Art Dudley reviewed the Rogers 65V-1 in January 2019 (Vol.42 No.1):

I first saw the Rogers High Fidelity 65V-1 a few years ago, silently displayed at a hi-fi show somewhere—impossible now to say where or precisely when. But I do remember one thing: This ostensibly rugged, single-ended, tubed integrated amplifier looked like a hell of a lot of fun. For just $3999, the US-made 65V-1 gives the user the ability to choose between two types of output tube—at time of purchase, the buyer selects EL34 or KT88 power pentodes, and the tubes not taken can be later bought and swapped in—and between triode and Ultralinear operation. Designer Roger Gibboni also created for the 65V-1 an iPad app that duplicates the amp's every user control except the Power switch, and that adds an animated, real-time power-output meter. (The user-supplied iPad communicates with the amp via Bluetooth.) How cool is all that?

My friend and colleague Herb Reichert thought it cool enough to request a review sample, which he reported on in the June 2018 Stereophile. In that review, Herb praised the 65V-1 for delivering "unusually intense" textures, and for its "uncanny ability to present instruments and voices in vivid textural relief" when used with his easy-to-drive, electrically sensitive DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/93 and Zu Soul Supreme loudspeakers. But he noted that the Rogers was less than perfectly satisfying with his easy-to-drive but insensitive (the brutes!) Falcon Acoustics LS3/5a's. And though in his "Measurements" sidebar John Atkinson praised the iPad app, he also noted the amp's low gain (25dB max from its headphone output), high output impedance (8.8 ohms at 1kHz with EL34 tubes in Ultralinear mode, which is higher than many loads it may be asked to drive), and, most important, low output power and high distortion: with the Rogers in triode mode, into 8 ohms, JA measured only 275mW at 1% distortion; at 8W, the distortion rose to 10%.

Never one to let a little distortion stand between me and a good time, I endured in my desire to try a 65V-1 at home. Last summer, Gibboni, who lives within a two-hour drive of my house, came by with an EL34-equipped review sample, which I used to drive my DeVore O/93s. I busied three of the 65V-1's four line-level inputs with a selection of sources: the lingering review sample of Mytek's Liberty DAC, which I reviewed in November 2018, driven by my Roon-equipped MacBook Air; the Sentec EQ11 phono preamp, itself driven by my usual phono sources; and, on one occasion, the output of my Shindo Laboratory Monbrison line stage plus phono preamp, an effort inspired by the 65V-1's low gain.

My approach to reviewing the Rogers amp was different from my usual practice: Partly because Gibboni didn't need his review sample back right away, and partly because I wasn't locked in to writing about the 65V-1 for any particular issue of Stereophile, I took my time. I loafed. I had fun with the amp, listening to it for a few days at a time, switching back to my usual gear—or some other product in for review—then returning to the Rogers. This went on for a couple of months: it was hotter than blazes the day Gibboni delivered the amp to my house; on the morning of my last day with the 65V-1, there was frost on the ground.

During that time I formed a couple of impressions, pro and con. On the one hand, the 65V-1 let me get what I needed from many of my favorite recordings: emotional wallop, intellectual satisfaction, just plain kicks. It did so, I think, because it was musical—not in the sense of making everything sound soft and warm, but in the sense that lines of notes went somewhere instead of just floating dead on the surface of a stagnant pond of pretty sound. Pitches were clear, note values distinct; there was realistic momentum in abundance, and at least a reasonable amount of drive.

On the other hand, during its time here I never really cozied up to the sound of the 65V-1. With some recordings, particularly of solo piano, it sounded midrangey, almost pungent, perhaps because reproducing notes in the bass range didn't seem to come as naturally to the Rogers as did the middle frequencies. If it were a car, I'd say the Rogers's midrange was free-revving, while its bottom end didn't make it into the best part of its torque curve. One sign of this was that the 65V-1 lacked power even in my modestly sized room, and even with my own pair of DeVore O/93 speakers.

Consider the times I used the Rogers amp, initially in Ultralinear mode, to play the Electric Recording Company's reissue on vinyl of Wilhelm Furtwängler's live recording of Beethoven's Symphony 9 with the 1951 Bayreuth Festival Orchestra, Chorus, and soloists (LP, EMI/ERC ALP 1286 and ALP 1287). Intellectually, it was sublime. While enjoying the first movement—particularly the way the amp nailed Furtwängler's elastic deliberateness in the descending figure in the strings just before the reprise of the opening bars—I found it easier to think about Schiller and Schopenhauer than about David Hafler and Herbert Keroes. But the sound and, at times, my emotional connection with the music were held back by the simple fact that dynamic peaks sounded gritty and coarse.

I played my mono copy of the 1962 recording of Samson François playing Chopin's Préludes (LP, UK Columbia 33CX 1877), and found pros and cons similar to the above. On the pro side, the Rogers amp allowed François's pianism in Prélude 2 to sound as Romantic as it should, every note invested with meaning, every pause dramatic, every crescendo breathtaking—a musical experience so involving that, when he plays that simple E triad near the end, I almost laughed out loud. The cons: In Ultralinear mode, the piano tone was less rich than what I hear when I play this recording through my Shindo electronics, and once again, dynamic peaks were a bit harsh.

I played the record again with the Rogers in triode mode—during the amp's time here, I occasionally switched back and forth between modes, although in the aggregate I preferred triode—and found that the piano tone was pleasantly and realistically richer, and the peaks distorted a little more gracefully. But it still wasn't as dramatic or as truthful of tone as I'm used to hearing from my system.

In Ultralinear mode, with complex orchestral music in particular, the Rogers amp put out a bit too much texture. In the recording by Hermann Scherchen and the Vienna State Opera Orchestra of Beethoven's Symphony 3, "Eroica" (LP, Westminster/Speakers Corner WST 14045), from the very first measures the strings sounded a little rough, and when the brass entered, their sound was also excessively textured. On top of that, the double basses' first pizzicato E-flat lacked pluck—there wasn't the same force behind the note that I hear through my usual system.

In triode mode, pizzicato notes had even less pluck—but while there was still a little too much texture, it was a more natural-sounding sort, its presence in the brass less objectionable. In triode, the soundfield was also bigger, if a little puffier and less corporeal than it should have been.

The Rogers wasn't always kind to pop music, especially recordings made with prominent, close-miked voices, such as Sandy Denny's in "Late November," from her The North Star Grassman and the Ravens (16-bit/44.1kHz FLAC, Tidal); At first I was encouraged by the beautiful, momentous sounds of the instruments in the intro—electric guitars burbled realistically, and Gerry Conway's drumming was unmistakably its clever, agile self—yet Denny's voice was intolerably harsh.

But with the right material, the Rogers amp was spine-chillingly, emotionally satisfyingly good, musically and sonically. My time with the 65V-1 was never more enjoyable than when I listened to the quietly unsettling "Things Behind the Sun," from Nick Drake's Pink Moon (24/48 MQA FLAC, Tidal): Drake's reticent, breathy, rather dark voice was believably toned and perfectly locked in place before me, with exceptional substance—its presence was believable. Moreover, his steel-string acoustic guitar had proper tone and scale plus good tactile qualities, and the music itself flowed naturally and relentlessly, as it should. Just wonderful.

Two observations about the 65V-1's user interface:

• The amp's iPad app and Bluetooth connectivity comprised the easiest, most fun-to-use remote control I've ever tried—and, as HR also noted, the app's graphics proved much easier to see than those on the amp's own illuminated display. I even enjoyed the animated power meter—although, as JA pointed out, this virtual power indicator, which averages its readings of the left and right channels, is surely not calibrated.

• Whether done via the app or at the amp itself, switching between triode and Ultralinear modes reliably produced a pop through my speakers that was loud enough to bother and worry me.

The Rogers 65V-1 seems aimed more at experienced audiophiles than at audio newbies: There are easier ways to fill a room with reliably high-quality sound. But it helped me better understand my system and my own playback priorities—and, yes, having it in my system was indeed fun. The 65V-1 gave me some but not all of what's special about modern single-ended amps, and in doing so provided me with some but not all of the musical puzzle: It excelled at portraying the structure and momentum of musical lines and the sense of presence of the instruments and voices performing them, in both cases uncannily well. Assuming those qualities are among the keys to your own enjoyment of music, and that your speakers are considerably more efficient than average, this very distinctive amp deserves an audition.—Art Dudley

COMPANY INFO
Rogers High Fidelity
28 Church Street
Warwick, NY 10990
(845) 987-7744
ARTICLE CONTENTS

COMMENTS
tonykaz's picture

... for a Story!

HR does the bestist "Click-Bait" in the Audiophile Business.

I'll tell ya who that might be: Steve G visiting the Bunker delivering an On-Site Vlog Report. That geeky guy with all those Pass Apleflyers stacked up on his Altar to Gear Collecting. The very same guy that pointed me to Shit Asgard Amplification ( back in 2011, along with his side-man Tyll ) , this Guy has more Integrity than nearly anyone in NY,NY for gods sake. On top of it all he's got a way-cool shirt collection. Hmm.

This tiny Amp Review is one of the best Reads of the Year, so far.

Steve G & HR seemed to have survived the big Buy-out, phew, I was getting worried.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed.

Please suggest that Steve spend some of his Mountainous Patereon Money on a Canon 6D & Vlog Lense system. The lads at B&H are waiting for him to walk thru their doors. Steve G can become the Casey Neistat of the Audio World!

Tony in Michigan

ps. I once owned a Nisson Pulsar 5 door Hatchback with 60 horsepower. It was that fastest little get around car I ever owned, it had to be driven intelligently but it delivered exceptional performance. QRP is a thinking man's effective tool.

ps. My Vote for Quote of the Year: "never heard an EL84 amp I didn't like"

ps. Mr. JohnnyThunder corrected me and my quoting of the quote. it's EL34 not EL84! Thanks Mr.Thunder

johnnythunder's picture

which is fab especially as I agree. It's the EL 34 tube that he is talking about the EL 84. EL 84s are good but EL 34s are magical.

tonykaz's picture

Right you are !!

I was in too much of a rush, trying to push out that Comment in between two scheduled things.

Plus, I wanted to be the FIRST one to respond, resulting in another proof for the Life Rule : "More haste, less speed" .

Thanks for writing and making the correction,

You da Man!!

Tony in Michigan

ps. EL34s even have a nicer smell. ( if anyone's in to that sort of thing, like I am )

Jason P Jackson's picture

I agree. It was this review that convinced me enough to get a yearly subs'. Mags like this one have their fair share of waffle. Nevertheless, good with the bad. And I've been known for my own occasional waffle.

mrkaic's picture

"Now I'm reporting on another class-A, single-ended amplifier, this one really low-powered. The 65V-1 integrated amplifier ($4000) uses EL34 or KT88 pentode tubes—at the time of purchase, the user specifies his or her preference—and is made by mainstream manufacturer Rogers High Fidelity, in Warwick, New York."

KT88 are TETRODES. KT stands for "kinkless tetrode". What an elementary mistake!!

Herb Reichert's picture

are Genalex and manufactured by New Sensor:

https://www.newsensor.com/pdf/genalex/kt88-genalex.pdf

they have five elements

mrkaic's picture

...the Genalex KT88 is just like any other KT88. It has the plate, the control grid, the screen grid, the cathode, and a pair of beam forming plates that are both connected to the cathode. That seems like five elements (counting the beam plate pair as one element) but only four different active electrodes exist in this type of tube, because the beam forming plates are connected to the cathode inside the tube. You can see that in the link you provided.

Now, a pentode has the plate and the cathode. It also has three grids: control, screen and suppression. Each of these elements has an active electrode, hence pentode — five active electrodes.

See this, for example https://drtube.com/datasheets/el34-sed2002.pdf

So, Genalex can call their KT88 whatever they want, but according to their own scheme, their KT88 has four active electrodes. The nomenclature depends on the number of active electrodes— Hence KT88 is a tetrode.

jmsent's picture

the original MO Valve Genalex datasheet calls the KT88 a beam tetrode. The New Sensor Genalex datasheet calls the same tube a beam pentode. The RCA datasheet calls it a "beam power tube". Seems like a grey area.

Herb Reichert's picture

If memory serves me, MO Valve invented the KT88 and it is as they say: a beam tetrode. But at that time, Phillips owned the patent for the power pentode and therefore all companies not associated with Phillips or unwilling to pay the license fee were forced to make “beam tetrodes” wherein instead of grid 3, the suppressor grid, a beam tetrode uses the concentration of the ion stream to do the same job. I call them all “beam tubes” as that is their common distinction.

I did however, as a proper fact-checking journalist, have to call the Rogers’ KT88s what their manufacturer calls them – pentodes. (Why does New Sensor call them beam pentodes? Don’t know. Maybe the Phillips patent is still in effect?)

But these are just words. To me, beam tubes have a unique sound character of their own, which, depending on the materials used in their construction, can range from turbocharged noisy harsh to beautifully lucid and hyper-detailed – like the original MO Valve KT88 beam tetrode.

Sorry for the confusion

herb

mrkaic's picture

You put a lot of effort into fact checking, that is quite amazing. Many thanks.

hifiluver's picture

Regarding Fig 2. Does this mean this amp will sound like it has a dip around the human voice with a shrill sound as the frequency goes up? My 15 year old Yamaha surround amp is a Ferrari compared to this Ford Model T.

johnnythunder's picture

would be able to discern the difference in sound quality between the Rogers amp and your "15 year old Yamaha surround amp." Obviously, I wouldn't use the Rogers amp for a home theatre system playing a Michael Bay film but that's another story entirely.

dce22's picture

It's 4000 bucks garbage for that kind of money you can buy one of the best if not the best tube amp in the world

Music Reference RM-200

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-reference-rm-200-mkii-power-amplifier

ironically designed by the other Roger, Rogers needs to step up it's game if it wants to compete with Music Reference.

mrkaic's picture

Or one could buy a Quad VA One, also a superb amplifier.

ok's picture

..a tube guy after all.

mrkaic's picture

I enjoy my little VA One tremendously.

ok's picture

..as I always suspected!

johnnythunder's picture

for a $4k expenditure. Or that it even looks good (it doesn't in my opinion.) I have no doubt that the Music Reference is a fine sounding amp (it looks great too.) My comment was for the equally glib comparison of the Rogers vs. a 15 yr. old Yamaha surround sound amp.

mrkaic's picture

...probably look better than anything out there. If you can't measure gear, you might be very happy with them -- as was I, for a time. My LM-216 sounded good and looked marvelous. But after I had measured it, I had to return it. I suspect that the thing must have had bad output transformers, since the response to square wave input showed intolerable ringing. So, there you go. Still miss the looks of that amp, but one has to be ruthless with gear that measures poorly. Looks are not everything, ears can be deceived easily, but oscilloscopes don't lie (if you know what you are doing). Incidentally, Quad VA One has great looks and measures well.

johnnythunder's picture

by a group that has obviously done their vintage audio equipment homework. I actually am not looking for a new amp. I have a Lector ZXT-60 hybrid integrated. The design is simple and elegant and has a high wife acceptance factor. She did not want exposed valves. An upgrade for me would probably be for something in the French Audiomat line. Class A. EL 34s. Synergistic match with my French JMR speakers.

woodford's picture

thanks for the great review- it's wonderful reading.

i wonder how the amp might sound w/ KT77s? in my, admittedly limited, experience KT77s provide the saturation of EL34s you speak of, with the punch and dynamics of KT88s. i use them in my Icon Audio ST40 in Triode mode, and they sound fabulous.

btw, the Icon is an amp stereophile should review.

John Atkinson's picture
woodford wrote:
i wonder how the amp might sound w/ KT77s? in my, admittedly limited, experience KT77s provide the saturation of EL34s you speak of, with the punch and dynamics of KT88s.

Years ago I replaced the EL34S in my Michaelson & Austin TVA-10 with KT77s that I had purchased from the M-O Valve Company. My experience was similar to yours.

woodford wrote:
i use them in my Icon Audio ST40 in Triode mode, and they sound fabulous. btw, the Icon is an amp stereophile should review.

As Icon currently has just 2 retailers in the US, the brand doesn't qualify for a full review. (We require a brand be available from 5 or more US dealers.)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

woodford's picture

I wonder whether the 5 dealer policy should be revisited for an age in which many consumers do their shopping online. assuming of course the online dealer (in this case, Music Direct) is reputable, and services all or most of the country.

in any event, it's a great amp in my opinion, easily competitive with similar amps from Line Magnetic, Prima Luna, et al.

dalethorn's picture

To me, online buying raises the issue of returned merchandise. I wouldn't expect most returned items to be repackaged and sold as new, but premium amps aren't like clothing and other easily exchanged or refunded goods sold online, and I wouldn't expect such dealers to take a beating having to sell the returned items as used.

Anton's picture

Seems like an online product, to me, as well.

Good return policy, factory warranted online dealer...I'd give it thumbs up!

woodford's picture

John- i wonder whether there's really a material difference between domestic manufacturers like Zu and Schiit that sell direct, and imports like Icon which sell primarily through a single online outlet. Stereophile has reviewed products from both of the former.

tonykaz's picture

I'd have no trouble accepting any of their stuff which sells used on Ebay for around 80% + for a "Previously Owned" current Model.

Besides...

... used eBay prices are a dam good way to evaluate Gear's ability to please "Real" owners.

Tony in Michigan

ps. most Loudspeakers don't do well in the Used Market but those cute little LS3/5s still get mucho dinero ( x5 original Retail Prices )

rt66indierock's picture

I read your Rogers view just before I left for T.H.E. Show. When I walked into Room 312 and saw the AGD Vivance Monoblock I thought of your first paragraph. Give them Class D in a Vacuum tube and audiophiles will lap it up.

johnnythunder's picture

I'd prefer Rogers hold down the Class A tube fort the good of all audiophiles (that like low power and the inherent restrictions/sonic benefits of Class A amp that is.) If I could own one Rogers product and had the space for a larger tube phono stage it would be the Rogers PA-1A.

rt66indierock's picture

This is class D in the tube. Looks like a tube mono amp. Rogue is a hybrid. This isn't.

I listened for a long time to the amp at T.H.E. Show because of the Allen Sides speakers. Because who am I kidding there are things I like and his Eureka speakers have them. Very surprising for a speaker with a port. The Monterey's in a bad room sounded pretty good.

hifiluver's picture

i have a looping video of an open fire place on my flat panel display but it doesn’t keep me warm in winter.

Tubes are funny honeys. They have a freq. response which can be replicated on a solid state amp coupled to a $50 dollar second hand graphic equaliser. The harmonic distortion can be introduced with shareware software. Pity I can’t replicate the lack of clean transparent power with little control over those big woofers.

13DoW's picture

There is very little say that is positive about the measured performance "But props to Roger Gibboni for the useful iPad app" :)

billyb's picture

Mr. Atkinson,
Would it be fair to say this review includes one of the worst test bench results for an amplifier in Stereophile history?
Obviously, with a square wave and distortion like that, there is much to criticize.

We all know test results only tell part of the story from a subjective listening perspective, but when you receive such an outlier on the bench wouldn’t you be doing a service to the readers to expound in a leeetle more detail than the mic drop above implies?

lousyreeds1's picture

Herb, I would love to know how Decware's low-watt and VERY affordable SET amps perform in your system up against the likes of Pass, Line Magnetic, Rogers, etc. Seems like with your small space and high-sensitivity speaker collection, Decware could be a good fit.

Thanks for the great review.

dalethorn's picture

I'd add a vote for Decware as well. They put a lot of emphasis on keeping the signal path as clean and uncluttered as possible, even if there's a risk of blowing a component because they don't include as much protection as their competitors.

X