The Quality Deficit Letters

Letters in response appeared in May 1992 (Vol.15 No.5)

Trade imbalances & high-end hi-fi

Editor: In light of the recent discussion about trade imbalance and the insult and counter-insult with Japan, I find that there is a parallel situation with regard to high-end audio. I don't mean to imply that Dan D'Agostino and Lew Johnson should go to Japan with President Bush to ask the Japanese to buy more amps, but if the American (high-end) audio industry as a whole doesn't watch it, they might be in the same predicament as the auto industry. It seemed like only a few years ago that GM (makers of Corvettes and Cadillac) were sniggering at the feeble attempts by a motorcycle manufacturer (Honda) to build cars. Seemingly overnight, they won the Formula 1 championship, and [now] sell the most compact sedans.

The whole high-end audio community, the manufacturers, and Stereophile should concentrate their efforts on popularizing the idea of "hi-fi" and "hi-fi" components (footnote 1). The High End shouldn't shut itself off and become a club community of the upper-class elite. For example, Stereophile shouldn't have a debate about which amps could drive the Apogee Divas. It should instead ask Apogee why their woofer inverts phase and is hard to drive by an average-to-good (ie, affordable) amp. Stereophile shouldn't applaud a company that could produce a $3000 D/A converter and consider it a good deal. Good deal for whom? Those wealthy customers in Taiwan won't be affected, but what about those laid-off yuppies back home? How many of us, for instance, have the discipline to brown-bag our lunches for three years just so we can buy a decent tube preamp?

I think that the survival of the high-end industry is in the widening of the market; so that, for instance, a 200W Mark Levinson could be sold for three to four times the Adcom counterpart instead of eight times. Also, more companies need to put more effort into R&D. It is refreshing to hear that Theta could produce cheaper and better product, for instance. It's also important that the (American) industry shouldn't feel so superior that "they" can never catch up. Remember, just a few years ago we thought that the Japanese couldn't produce a decent phono cartridge. Now where are Shure and ADC in comparison? (footnote 2)
Greg Juhadi
Honolulu, HI

The quality deficit

Editor: I want to concur in LA's opinion of The Quality Deficit as expressed in "The Final Word" in February 1992. LA's insights cut right to the heart of the matter. The Japanese have worked a major industrial revolution in the electronics and automobile industries. In electronics, they did it because we let them—and perhaps even helped.

The transistor was developed by Bell Laboratories here in the US. The Japanese took the idea, developed and expanded on it, and outdid us at our own game. Then, by their predatory pricing policies, orchestrated by their government, or perhaps with its tacit approval, they made it impossible to compete with them. The result: the American transistor industry was driven to near extinction (footnote 3).

The automobile is quite another matter. The pent-up demand for automobiles at the end of World War II allowed American automobile manufacturers to sell anything and everything they could turn out—and at a premium. They charged for the privilege of buying one of their pre-war–engineered cars! As a result, they got into bad habits. Because the consumer would accept anything, that's what the industry turned out. If they could sell it, why not? The law of supply and demand worked then, as it's working now. The only difference is that then, we liked the results. Now, we don't. But, the economic law is the same.

As LA correctly pointed out, the Japanese studied the American market and improved their product. Because of their commitment to quality, they captured the American consumer because the word got out that for a product to be made in Japan was no longer a derision, but rather an accolade. Quality shines wherever it is created or exists. It is its own attraction and justification.

Of course, the Japanese and the rest of the world buy American products. But only the best. There are a handful of names that come to mind, including the ones you mentioned in the high-end electronics business.

The laws of economics work on a world scale, and on us individually.
Irving Marmer
Boston, MA

Cancel my subscription!

Editor: I was very upset after reading LA's "Final Word" column entitled "The Quality Deficit" [February 1992]. I'm sure that a good deal of my sensitivity on the issue stems from my being a not so wealthy person employed in the American auto industry, but I thought his comments were callous and very untimely.

I, too, was embarrassed by President Bush's recent trip to the Far East. His motivation for the trip was purely political, and it was a complete waste of taxpayers' money. Taking along a herd of Detroit executives was like sending a herd of Stereophile reviewers to the AES convention.

It is time to let the public know that when they make a choice to purchase any imported product over a domestic equivalent, they are hurting our country. US industries generate over ten times the tax revenues than does the sale of an import. US industries also generate supplier- and service-industry ripples throughout the country that multiply the benefit. These revenues are the basis for our roads, health care, defense, social security, etc. I'll wager that one out of every five of your subscribers are, at least somewhat, dependent on the US auto industry and its employees.

You say that the Japanese didn't have a huge head start, but they have had many advantages. The US financed their recovery after World War II. You stated that Toyota had no automatic toehold in the US; but they did, and still do, have the total support of the Japanese government on both sides of the Pacific Ocean.

Talking about the high quality of the Japanese auto is like talking about the high quality of Japanese mid-fi stereo components. They start most of the time, are inexpensive, are efficient, and require little maintenance. But would you say that a Toyota is a high-end car, especially when compared to Jaguar, Mercedes, or even Lincoln and Cadillac? That hasn't been my experience.

J. Gordon Holt would never have published anything like this article when he was in control of Stereophile. I hope he isn't too disappointed as he watches Larry Archibald, John Atkinson, and the rest of your crew destroy the integrity that he worked so long and hard to establish. There is a much larger issue at stake than LA's little article would imply, especially at such a time of recession. I can't believe that you actually published such drivel. Please cancel my subscription immediately, and refund any unused portion of my subscription cost.
Greg Salatin
Anderson, IN

Inaccuracies & oversimplifications?

Editor: I have just finished reading LA's column in the February issue, and I am stunned at the number of inaccuracies and oversimplifications in this column. In an effort to set the record straight on the American auto industry, I offer the following arguments.

First, the reason that US cars hardly sell in Japan has more to do with Japanese industrial politics than with the inherent value of the products. In a recent Detroit News article (copy enclosed), L.R. Windecker discussed restrictive trade practices dating back to 1936, when the dominant auto producers in Japan were Ford and GM. The Japanese government tried to tax the US producers out of the country in 1936, then forced them out in 1939 by refusing to grant them production allocations. In 1952, when foreign producers attempted to enter the postwar Japanese market, the government refused to grant them market access, stating that the domestic industry had to be protected from superior imported products.

Although the government relented in 1955, the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI) continued to limit imports and restrict foreign production in Japan. This pattern of MITI-inspired protectionism persisted into the late 1970s, long after the Japanese industry had matured. Faced with such poor prospects in Japan, the Big Three concentrated on the American and European markets, where the legal barriers to producing and selling cars were less daunting. Had Ford and GM been allowed to resume Japanese production in 1952, they would probably be fully competitive in Japan, as they are in Europe.

Second, LA's perception of the quality difference between US and Japanese cars is at least five years out of date. Although Japanese cars enjoyed a large quality advantage over US brands in the early 1980s, domestic producers have since narrowed the gap significantly. The industry's internal quality surveys still show a slight quality gap between US vehicles and their Japanese counterparts, but they also show that American quality is improving at a faster rate. Third-party surveys such as J.D. Power's confirm the industry data. LA's statement that US cars "break much more often" is simply wrong, and betrays a lack of familiarity with today's American cars.

Finally, his suggestion that US auto executives look to high-end audio producers for tips on selling in Japan is ludicrous. Unlike US automakers, the producers of high-end audio were not forced by Japanese law to set up their own retail distribution networks, but were allowed to market their products through stores that also handled Japanese brands. There are also fewer serious Japanese competitors in high-end audio than in the automotive mass market; with few exceptions, the best Japanese equipment cannot match the sound quality of Krell, Mark Levinson, or Audio Research. If Sony (or any other Japanese supplier) were to design and build a true high-end product line at a lower price than imported equipment commands, the American High End would have a far tougher time selling in Japan.

I suggest that LA confine his future comments to audio equipment and recordings, which he discusses with wit and authority, and leave auto-industry commentary to Car and Driver.
Donald P. Bilger
Livonia, MI

Well done, Larry!

Editor: Very well done "Final Word" in February. We need this kind of thing said more often.
John Chancellor
New York, NY

Thank you, Mr. Chancellor, but I also appreciate the critical letters. Frankly, I'm surprised there wasn't more of an outraged response—certainly, had Stereo Sound (Japan's leading hi-fi magazine) published an article sharply critical of the sound of Japanese electronics, there would have been a lot of angry letters in their pages.

I am sympathetic with Mr. Salatin. If Stereophile's sales were sharply down due to competition from a foreign competitor, I would take none too kindly to praise of that competitor. Nevertheless, my response would be a radical attempt at improving Stereophile; I wouldn't shoot the messenger who brought the bad news, as Mr. Salatin has done in canceling his Stereophile subscription. And his tactic of comparing Japanese cars, most of which are humble Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans, to Cadillac and Lincoln, is unworthy. Compare them with cheap GM and Chrysler cars and they come out very well. Compare Cadillac and Lincoln with Mercedes and Lexus; the American vehicles don't look that great (though I personally like Lincolns for carrying a lot of people).

And please understand that, unlike some foolish Japanese politicians, I don't blame American workers, who are certainly not lazy. Recent articles published in The Economist and local newspapers make it clear that Americans are the most productive workers in the world, and that Americans work quite a lot more now than they did in 1970. (The Europeans think we're nuts.) America's auto industry suffers not from lazy workers but from unimaginative, cowardly, irresponsible, and overpaid leadership.

Mr. Bilger makes some interesting, fact-filled arguments. Although he may like better the opinions I express about recordings and audio equipment, I'm actually better qualified to comment about cars: my professional years in the auto industry number 16 (with an additional nine spent as a consumer who rents about 50 cars a year), while I've only professionally been in audio for 10. And I don't disagree that the Japanese erect formidable trade barriers to foreign competitors. Along with his letter, Mr. Bilger enclosed an article written by L.R. Windecker that appeared in a Detroit newspaper detailing the charges Bilger makes in his letter. Certainly Japan, if it hopes to continue exporting at its current rate, will have to open its domestic markets to foreign competitors or simply face an all-out trade boycott (which, by the way, would have a disastrous effect on all other industrial economies).

Some companies overcome these trade obstacles, though. BMW and Mercedes are status symbols in Japan, and sell very well among the wealthy (they cost about twice as much there as they do here) for a simple reason: they outperform, on one level or another, most or all Japanese cars. Their standard of fit, finish, and reliability, though not up to the Japanese standard, is excellent—clearly better than their American counterparts. They even go to the trouble of manufacturing cars with right-hand drive! Have you ever noticed how many Swedish, Japanese, and British vehicles were sold in the US with right-hand drive? Virtually none, because those countries knew that, no matter how good their cars, it was unreasonable to expect foreigners to accept cars where the driver had to sit on the wrong side. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have yet to attempt this advanced strategy (footnote 4).

And Mr. Bilger's own facts condemn his argument. He concedes that American cars deserved the reputation they acquired in the 1970s and '80s for poor reliability, just as I proclaim that Japanese cars started out with a deserved poor reputation in this country. They're better than that now—why don't the Japanese realize that and buy our cars? But you can't make headway in a foreign market selling more expensive cars which only come close to the native product in terms of reliability. No, you have to beat out the native product, and not for just a year or two—you have to do it for long enough that the general market perception changes. (Three-and-a-half years after Stereophile became a monthly publication in mid–1987, people would ask us just when we were going monthly!)

But American cars, though much better than they used to be, still don't match most Japanese cars for reliability. According to a newspaper article I read recently, the best American cars used to have twice as many reliability problems as the average Japanese car; now the margin has been narrowed to 30%. THIRTY PERCENT IS STILL A LOT! When the Americans are plus or minus 5% for several years in a row, they'll have something to crow about to not only the Japanese, but to Americans as well. (I still feel that American car companies are only dragged kicking and screaming into making reliable, high-quality cars, just as they were reluctant to raise fuel efficiency, provide practical, space-efficient vehicles, or install airbags—but I guess we can expect the leopard only to mind its manners, not change its spots.)

Which all distracts from my original argument: George Bush should have sent the US car manufacturers to visit high-end audio companies to find out why the former have such a hard time selling cars to both Americans and foreigners. Mr. Bilger says it best: "If Sony...were to design and build a true high-end product line at a lower price than imported equipment commands, the American High End would have a far tougher time selling in Japan." That's a tactic US auto manufacturers haven't tried, because they've lost any vision of excellence. They're unwilling to try to make something to a world-class standard, apparently because the risk would be too great.

America's industries became world-famous because of people willing to "bet the company" on a new and excellent product. High-end audio companies do this routinely and, because the products they make are truly great, they're successful at it.—Larry Archibald

Footnote 1: This involves, to a large extent, "name-brand" recognition. I don't mean that we should have highway billboards showing MartinLogan speakers, but we need to instill more awareness in the public that there are other stereo components besides Pioneer and Yamaha. A case in point: Someone decided to upgrade his B&K amps to a Krell, but the potential buyers for his (used) amp had never heard of B&K. Hence he decided to keep what he has and spend his money buying more Sony/Columbia CDs instead. Back to the trade imbalance.—Greg Juhadi

Footnote 2: It is a well-known fact that Rotel (UK) and Harman/Kardon (Japan-made) make excellent, affordable CD players. So it's entirely possible for companies like these to come up with near–state-of-the-art CD players for around $1000 in the near future. I wonder how the likes of Proceed, Krell, and CAL Labs meet this challenge. It sure is an enigmatic time for high-end consumers. On one hand, better and cheaper things are around the corner, but things that we love (such as Marantz and MacIntosh tube amps) may fall by the wayside. Don't say I didn't warn you.—Greg Juhadi

Footnote 3: Actually, the notion that US companies have been driven out of the semiconductor market is a myth. While it may be true in the area of DRAM chips, I believe that US companies like Intel totally outscore the Oriental competition when it comes to advanced chips such as microprocessors. In fact, my impression is that the US specialized chip industry seems to be doing very well.—John Atkinson

Footnote 4: Apparently the only American automobile manufacturer to export right-hand drive cars to Japan is Honda! Accord Coupes for the Japanese market are made in their Marysville, Ohio plant.—John Atkinson


Osgood Crinkly III's picture

How pathetic. What a narrow-minded, parochial worm. Since when does one's bank account define one? This is the Obama collectivist, political correctness, the Death of the American Dream, the politics of resentment and envy. This is liberal guilt and hypocrisy. Do you wear a hair shirt and ration sex?

We arrived on these shores with little. I LOVED rich people. I wanted to be one. Tho not Christian, I loved Xmas decorations and songs (still do). I loved hi-fi's. I loved beautiful cars, the bigger the better. Most of all, I LOVED America, the land of plenty and endless possibilities. Damn your small soul.

remlab's picture


jhwalker's picture

. . . of course, you should note this column was written in 1992 and prominently features President Bush I . . . but don't let that spoil your rant.

Osgood Crinkly III's picture

Why in the world ... Talk about recycling. Talk about retro.

Don't see the contradiction? All the things "progessives" eschew, in other words, untaxed and unregulated wealth, capitalism, a market economy and a prosperous consumer society, make hi-fi and hi-end possible.

Catch22's picture

It's the ones that make me question the reviewer's ability to be objective in the first place that gets to me. I've had to ask myself many times why I'm placing any faith in the reviewer after he demonstrates with some sort of political rant that he isn't capable of being objective on something that isn't even related to audio, but felt the need to vent his spleen.

LA made no such error in that regard.

lostcomma's picture

Wouldn't be nice if we could look upon the world as simplest as possible. Black hat/white hat, good guy/bad guy, ............wait a second. Yikes...sure nice to be able to buy some of the world's best audiophile tech right here, right now, close to home! Sweet! I dream of magico's speakers , bryston amps, PSB's headphones wilson alexas, MacIntoshes tubes and many different rooms with many different setups. My soul feels larger because we got it so good!

Osgood Crinkly III's picture


Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this will last, thanks to Obama and his absurd, reckless, collectivist policies:

Only 1 U.S. bank among world's top 10
China has four of the top 10 slots

John Atkinson's picture
Osgood Crinkly III wrote:
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this will last, thanks to Obama and his absurd, reckless, collectivist policies...

Dow-Jones Index tops 17,000 - Obama judged "worst socialist evah!" :-)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

remlab's picture

But like Faux News has taught their followers, "IF YOU KEEP SCREAMING IT, MAYBE PEOPLE WILL START BELIEVING IT!" Ultimately, this will do nothing more than marginalize the conservative movement even further..

mancaphill's picture

So THIS is the first article I read after buying a subscription to Steeophile?? This is Unbelievable! I thought the newsletter was all about AUDIO - not politics! I live in Washington DC and work on Capitol Hill. I can get this crap all day and all night walking out my door. I wanted to learn more about audio, not the rants of right wing President haters. and then the EDITOR, John Atkinson chimes in?? What kind of newsletter is this? Is it conservative propaganda disguised as an audio newsletter??

I will be cancelling my subscription immediately!

remlab's picture

John Atkinson is a conservative? Ha! With conservatives like him, who needs liberals..

John Atkinson's picture
mancaphill wrote:
I will be cancelling my subscription immediately!

I felt the parallels drawn in this well-informed essay between the then-sickly American car industry and the then and still healthy American audio industry well worth republishing despite its age. Even the late John Chancellor joined in the discussion, on the second page. But goodbye.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

volvic's picture

While this is a hi-fi forum and I never like to see matters of politics discussed, I was glad for the response to OC III's statements.

John Atkinson's picture
The poster was being silly so I thought I would be silly in response. But please, no more off-topic posts. The Open Bar in our Forum section is the appropriate place for political rants.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Osgood Crinkly III's picture

[Content deleted by John Atkinson, following his request that off-topic messages like this be posted to the Open Bar section of the Forum.]

mancaphill's picture

Why was this article even (re) published in this newsletter??
I am very confused by a new subscriber, and am really disturbed by the mission and vision of the magazine.

John Atkinson's picture
mancaphill wrote:
Why was this article even (re) published in this newsletter??

See my earlier response to the same question.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

remlab's picture

..Larry Archibald was rich.. Relatively speaking, anyway.

dalethorn's picture

I've lived in the U.S. for a long time, saw many companies self-destruct while I worked there (Firestone Tire was one), and when you've seen what a sorry mess those factories in Akron OH were in in the 1970's, the strikes for more money and benefits when the factories were no longer competitive - you just knew to pull up your stakes and move on.

Quality of American cars in the 1970's was horrible. But there are some little-known facts about Japan you should know. My dad (Army Infantry) worked the Pacific beaches from just after Pearl Harbor until the end of the war. He picked up a lot of Japanese gear from ordinary soldiers, and he told me in no uncertain terms that it was far superior to the American soldier's gear. Japan had a short-lived reputation for 'cheap' in early transistorized gear, but underneath that reputation was an industrial giant known for quality before the transistor era and afterward.

Toyota, if you check Consumer Reports over a period of time, had many used cars in Consumer Reports' warning list, while Honda usually had none. Toyota was the corporation who almost single-handedly led the charge to bigger, more powerful (and wasteful) engines and vehicles *after* the petrol crisis of the early 1970's. I tracked their ads for a long time on that issue.

From what I remember, the Saint of Quality Control for Japan was a guy named Deming - he was not Japanese. But the Japanese really believed in quality, and we in the U.S. did not. However, as bad as our industry in finished automobiles was a few decades ago, American car parts were highly regarded then. So it's a mixed bag.

mvs4000's picture

It's stuff like this that reminds me why I let my subscription to Stereophile lapse a long time ago.

mancaphill's picture

I just read this as my FIRST time to sit down and read a Stereophile newsletter, and I'm SHOCKED!

Stereophile should NOT even exist if this is the crap they are going to post! I'm running this up the ladder. Or is this always how it is?


remlab's picture


JL77's picture

Being rich is good. Expensive audio is great. Inequality is a healthy result of free-markets. But tax-fiscal policy that allows too much wealth and inequality to accumulate into too few hands is not just bad for the audio industry, it's bad for the nation, perhaps fatal. Supply-side policy (since 1980s) has caused far too much wealth to accumulate into too few hands. Our 99% / 1% wealth inequality hasn't been this out of balance since 1929, the onset of the Great Depression.

This isn't, and really never was, a partisan issue. Eisenhower, 50 years ago, warned of its coming. It's been called many names: fascism, corporatism, plutocracy, oligarchy. Unless we start reversing the overt control of crony capitalism on our fiscal policies, we're clearly heading straight into another fiscal collapse, this time without buffers. And not just us, but every Western nation that is drifting further into gross socioeconomic imbalance.

Another billionaire comes clean:

remlab's picture

Damned liberals! Ha!

Catch22's picture

LA's message was very relevant for the period. Detroit's lowest point happened to coincide with audio's (arguably) highest point. And, it was at a time when audio was growing so fast that the pages of Stereophile was reaching into the 300s. Digital was coming of age and digital players were finally starting to catch up with the capabilities of the CD.

Achieving really good sound was getting cheaper, while really expensive gear was taking advantage of never-before technology that started finding its way into the less expensive lines.

North American audio gear was THE standard and LA was simply saying, hey, guys, start making good stuff that people want... like our industry is doing.

If you look at the state of music today, and the crap that is being presented to consumers, is it any wonder why the music industry is continuing to plunge in sales?

Never before has so many tools existed to make high quality recordings available and never before has high quality playback been as inexpensive and accessable to the public and yet those tools go unused.

Hey music industry...start making good stuff that people want to buy and fire your marketing department. Pissing on our leg and telling us it's raining isn't going to work anymore.

mancaphill's picture

[Flame deleted by John Atkinson]

es347's picture

Shocked? Appalled perhaps that Stereophile is a left leaning rag? Don't be...I've seen countless liberal rants posted by its journalists and even though subscribers cry foul it continues. I take it as an in-your-face to the conservative reader. I find it quite ironic that a hobby...the high end...which wouldn't even exist if not for good old capitalism attracts a majority of participants that espouse heart felt socialist values. If you are willing to overlook the hypocrisy then by all means subscribe. Sadly I've overlooked it in the past but will no more. Things have gotten so screwed up in this country during the past six years something's gotta change so in my own small way I eschew subscribing to S'phile...JA's progressive forum. I realize that my departure has about as much significance as the proverbial whizz in the ocean but that's ok. At least I can say I stood up for my values...pfffft. :-)

Al from Hudson Avenue's picture

I kinda agree that Stereophile should be a no-politics zone. The occasional jabs from the lefties that populate the magazine are probably just because they think that that is real.

But I think that saying that Americans are stupid isn't really that political. We really are. We are not sliding into the toilet, we are diving in. Our only hope is to die before the only people left are people who don't mind.

JaimeB's picture

Wow, what a time flashback! I recall this opinion article by Larry. The thing is that Larry, after having made his best investment at Stereophile - bringing JA from England - was able to sell Stereophile for millions and become part of the Richie Rich gang (ironically for him)...well, at least up there with the 5%, as JA never divulged the actual $$$ amount. Great for Larry and great for Stereophile, it was a win win situation.

And yes, it was an historically embarrasedly and shameful publicity and commercial stunt from Detroit's naive executives trying to sell their crappy wares. Yes, I now drive American, and no, I haven't re-subscribed to Stereophile in years, but I will do so again ASAP! All the great memories and audio entertainment from reading Stereophile since 1983 - PRICELESS!!!

remlab's picture

..the last time someone said anything left leaning was Art Dudley, and that was at least a couple years ago. He's gone totally apolitical since then(along with JA) This was just a stupid article from 92 by the publisher of Stereophile at the time. Big deal..

corrective_unconscious's picture

I think he expresses right wing (by Dudley standards, for example,) in his Sphile column, but he usually encodes it.

When he used to burn up on re-entry, I mean, participate at audioasylum he would be more direct about his beliefs.

remlab's picture

I personally think Sam Tellig is a Russian spy who uses conservatism as a cover.

Osgood Crinkly III's picture

for bringing so much traffic to this site, instead of deleting my posts.

Usual traffic is no more than 2-3 posts per article.

remlab's picture

..requires that their reviewers also be musicians, they're going to run into this kind of problem...Unless, of course, they can somehow figure out how to recruit Pat Boone, Kid Rock and Ted Nugent..

corrective_unconscious's picture

For some reason (with this, my old browser) hitting "Reply" either does not put my post under what I'm replying to, or after processing my post it does not write the page to show my post under what I'm replying to.

luvmusic1945's picture

I agree with catch22; we are seeing better and better quality, as far as equipment is concerned and more garbage that passes for music or movies. Sorry dudes, but rap is not music and should not receive Grammy's. As far as the tube goes, aside from news and some odd sporting event, i find the whole thing, a waste of time. Special effects are everywhere trying to woo us with cartoon characters; it's fucking Disney with real people altered by special effects.

usernamophile's picture

This thread is disturbing but perhaps representative of society as a whole. If an entity puts forth an idea that does not align with an individual's beliefs, the individual wants to pack up his/her toys and not play anymore. The US should not be comprised of two teams that refuse to cooperate. Conservatism in not a bad word. Neither is Liberalism or Socialism. All theories bring valid ideas to the plate. This thread merely reinforces that the two party system is broken. Dude wrote an opinion article in 1992 and I want to cancel my subscription in 2014 - yeah, that's a rational thought.

remlab's picture

..things would be running profoundly smoother. Any Republican that cooperates in any way whatsoever with the "opposing side"is lambasted round the clock by Fox and, for all intents and purposes, shooting his career in foot.