As We See It

To Appeal to Young Audiophiles, Tell a Story

Jim Austin  |  Aug 13, 2024

Yesterday, I had a brief conversation, by text message, with my 26-year-old son. He had just walked by the Devialet shop at the Shoppes at Columbus Circle here in Manhattan. Knowing my interest in such things, he sent me a photo. The Devialet boutique seems more a design exhibit than a shop, in a high-ceilinged open area.

The shops at the Shoppes at Columbus Circle include Hugo Boss, Eileen Fisher, and Floga, which sells furs, among less-exclusive brands, though even the less-exclusive stores look fancy. Upstairs from the Shoppes is the Mandarin Oriental New York Hotel, where rooms cost about $1k/night and up, and some notable restaurants, among them Thomas Keller's Per Se, and Masa, a three-star Michelin restaurant where dinner costs as much as a room at the Mandarin Oriental, per person. To reserve a table, leave a deposit of $950 per guest. If you don't show up, they keep the money.

Devialet is the only trace of the hi-fi industry not only in that mall but in that part of town. Innovative Audio, which carries Wilson, Focal, and D'Agostino, among other brands, is about a mile east, a 25-minute walk.

Devialet was founded on real technology, the analog-digital hybrid amplification module employed in the pioneering D-Premier integrated amplifier John Atkinson reviewed very favorably in January 2013. Devialet utilized this core technology to make products that are at least as much lifestyle as hi-fi and cultivated a reputation in art and design via collaborations with Krug champagne and partnerships with the Paris Opera, Luis Vuitton, and other organizations and artists (footnote 1).

I admire what Devialet is doing. Instead of sticking close to our industry and pursuing low-hanging fruit, they've aimed to expand the market with relatively affordable goods in the luxury/lifestyle category, reaching new audiences.

Those restaurants I mentioned, upstairs at Columbus Circle, are typical of New York in that they practically guarantee a fine dining experience—but only if you're willing to take out a mortgage to get dinner. If you don't want to spend at least the cost of a good midrange audio cable, the food is hit or miss in Manhattan and except for the 99-cent pizza slice, almost none of it is cheap. I've lived here nine years now, and I still don't know where to buy a good sourdough, at any price; a bakery that shows up Thursdays at the local farmer's market charges $9 for a loaf, and it isn't great.

Remember that conversation I was having with my son by text message? Provoked, I think, by that Devialet display, he wrote, "I do hope hi-fi takes off with young people Feels like an easy sell with the right angle." Every young person my son knows loves music. He has his own place, in Brooklyn of course, but whenever my wife and I leave town, he'll have some friends over to our place, make them dinner, and play some music. He is especially fond of Carolyn Shaw's compositions. He has described his friends' responses as mind-altering, consciousness-expanding. I'm willing to bet that once they're established and stable in a home, every one of these people will buy a stereo system.

This got me thinking about value and what it would take for our hobby/industry to "take off with young people." It might be wrong, but my thinking is very clear. I'll put it first in foodie terms.

What I'm looking for in a restaurant, and have rarely found, is simple and classic: excellent, unpretentious ingredients simply and meticulously prepared. Exquisitely fresh grouper with salt, pepper, a squeeze of lemon; high-quality al dente pasta with a well-made sauce; a simple green salad well dressed. I know it won't be cheap—good ingredients and expertise cost money—but it need not cost what Columbus Circle restaurants cost, even with NYC rents.

The proven way to make products cheaply is to manufacture in quantity, in a factory, on an automated assembly line in a low-income country. Another way is to cut corners on materials. Neither approach is promising. Products intended to expand our industry must have integrity—in design, component selection, and construction. They must have a resonant story.

The key to making this work is to keep the parts count low, the design and build simple: a few tubes and passive elements, well-chosen power and output transformers. Assemble them in a chassis that's attractive and well-made, though it need not be expensive. A similar approach can be taken with transistor amps—look at Nelson Pass's First Watt designs. I'd love to see a First Watt integrated, in a more interesting-looking chassis. Include an MM phono preamp based on a simple circuit.

High-sensitivity speakers are the obvious way to go, since they let you keep the amplifier power low, saving money on tubes and transformers. You don't need horns; just keep the crossover simple. Use simple, time-honored designs for amplifier, loudspeaker, and crossover. Use high-quality, low-tech (coated paper) drivers. Mount them in a sturdy wooden box.

What about sources? I can think of several $500–$1000 turntables; add an interesting, affordable cartridge and that's a very fine source. A used 'table will work, too. Digital sources are generic. A laptop computer is fine for streaming; pick up an affordable, high-quality USB or streaming DAC with Bluetooth or AirPlay or both. This is an area, I'm thinking, where the industry is currently falling short: Although many cheap DACs sound great for the money, few have character or a story.

Each main piece needs a story. What classic topology does the amplifier use? Who made the transformers? Where was the wood used for the loudspeaker cabinet (sustainably) harvested? What specific drivers were chosen, and why?

Like my dream restaurant, it won't be dirt cheap, but it can be in-range—attainable—and the value proposition will be self-evident. Build it and they will come

Footnote 1: I was privileged to live for several weeks with a pair of Devialet Phantoms in a Paris apartment in 2017. You can read about the experience here.

COMMENTS
DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 13, 2024 - 7:34am

The problem with high efficiency speakers is that they trade off low frequency extension for that sensitivity.

It seems you need something the size and cost of a Wilson or Avantgarde floorstander to get both decent extension and enough sensitivity to be driven by a low power amp. Plus, not everyone is a fan of tubes, and watts are cheap. It’s usually been more practical to go the opposite way in using relatively compact, lower efficiency designs that offer acceptable extension and driving them with cost efficient solid state or hybrid watts.

People on a budget aren’t going to have the space for big speakers. Tube amps aren’t the most space efficient either. So they’re stuck in the time old conundrum of adding a sub to their bookshelf speakers. And then setting crossovers, sub placement… researching … crawling on floors… and suddenly they’re on their way to becoming an audiophile.

HandMadeAudioLLC's picture
Submitted by HandMadeAudioLLC on August 14, 2024 - 4:24pm

Your assessment of high-efficiency speakers needs to be corrected. Several high-efficiency speakers have low-frequency extensions. I have a pair of speakers that are rated at 98 DB and dip down to 18hz. I know of horn designs that use a single driver and are full range. The cabinet design plays a big part in the speaker's ability to provide ample bass extension. The Tannoy Westminster Royal is rated at 99db and is rated at 18db. The bass extension on that speaker will knock you on your tuchus. Pow!!

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 14, 2024 - 4:56pm

Actually, you misread my statement. I said that there is a generally a trade off between efficiency and bass extension, and it’s still true.

And the topic here was about finding an AFFORDABLE high efficiency speaker with decent extension… you know, for a budget system, and one that isn’t the size of a refrigerator.

Sure, you can get both efficiency with low extension if you put no restriction on cabinet sizes and have an unlimited budget. The Tannoy isn’t applicable here, and it would be silly to get a pair for their efficiency so one can save money on low watt amplification.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 15, 2024 - 9:06am

I don't find your statement about efficiency and bass extension true either.

The rest of your statements seem to contradict your statements. 'Affordable' is always relative.

What IS affordable? $200? $2000? $10000? It's about who you are asking that question to.

The Absolute Sound has a speaker guide that's out last month and can speak to thousands of specs regarding size, cost and efficiency. I would read that first.

samueljohn's picture
Submitted by samueljohn on August 15, 2024 - 5:48pm

I recently had a conversation with my son, 30+, about this very thing. He would love to invest in a quality system, but realistically he and his wife, both working in good tech jobs, could maybe swing a couple of grand for a music system.
Now I have been a ridiculous audio buyer for most of my adult life, but I see their issue. Technology has given us some amazing quality at lower price points, but our industry does not promote these very products. If companies want to tap into the younger market, they will need to focus on products that give value, quality, and a design aesthetic that will capture the generations that are itching to get into audiophile scene.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 16, 2024 - 11:38am

Here here! I totally agree

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 19, 2024 - 8:35am

The fact his kids can afford a 'few thousand' for a home system?

You just said two posts ago that was out of touch in your teenage rant. See above.

And I JUST asked you if $200 or $2000 or $10,000 was relative, you jackass.

Lying to make your point is disingenuous. And you did lie by reducing the argument to $10k. I asked you directly what a 'budget' price was. You responded with mockery instead of an answer.

Start your own marketing company if you think you are 'underserved' as a whiny, entitled youth. The marketing for audio is everywhere, dude.

There are thousands of products to find for any price point of the market- even under $100. Start there.

PS- The TAS speaker guide lists speakers in every price point. I found at least 20 speakers that are high sensitivity, large displacement, deep extension in that catalog.

But please rule it out of your closed, Gen Z mind. So YOU Can be right.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 19, 2024 - 9:09am

Glotz, son: why do you insist on making a fool of yourself here?

He said that his son and his wife as a couple in tech could maybe swing a couple grand for a system. A couple grand ain’t a few thousand. And a couple in tech are better off than most.

I think you’re out of touch with reality because your reading comprehension is very poor. The title of the article is “To Appeal to Young Audiophiles, Tell Them a Story”, not “To Appeal to Young Audiophiles, Tell Them $10k is Budget Depending On Who You Ask”. SMH.

I agree with him because he’s right. I disagree with you because you’re wrong, it’s as simple as that.
Now I will soon start to ignore you here if you keep trolling like a butthurt child.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 19, 2024 - 9:40am

Dude, you just contradicted yourself - again. And ranted like a kid- again.

You don't even understand the basics of money. A couple grand and a few thousand is the same thing. $2000-3000. You clearly needs some math lessons... Lol. You agree with him because you are a whiner looking for one person to agree with on this whole website.

Once again you lie and act dishonestly- $200? $2000? is what I said and asked you. And it is not $10,000. Dude, you fail in Debate 101.

Moreover, Jim Austin clearly used Diavalet as an example for his article. And those components are over $10k... AND any IT grad earning $60k a year can afford that and any other product they want. So you contradict Jim's statements and claim you agree with him.

THAT is poor reading comprehension, my disgruntled, young wanna-be.

Do you even subscribe to the magazine here? My guess is no. I've been here before you were born. And I still am cooler than you'll ever be, son.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 19, 2024 - 3:26pm

Earth to Glotz! You must be high AND you failed basic finance. You must be a masochist writing such silly things here.

A person making $60k a year takes home maybe $3500 a month net and isn’t going to be anywhere near the target market for a $10k system. In fact, A COUPLE making $60k each won’t be in the market for such a system.

Not when their rent or mortgage on a condo is going to take at least $3k a month in most metro markets. And they’re going to want to eat out, pay off student loans, make 401k contributions, and save for a house. The down payment on a house is six figures in most places.

A $10k system isn’t even on the radar for such people. Wake up!

And I hate ta tell ya Boomer, but $60k ain’t such a high salary these days. So again, you just show out of touch with reality you are.

I’m done feeding the troll and forthwith am ignoring anything you write as beneath the effort to reply. I’m just going to take great pleasure in the knowledge that there are a number of people out there getting better sound out of their systems than you are, and having spent less for them.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 19, 2024 - 4:36pm

As is your logic. And your claims. You have no idea of my system nor my outlay, as you pretend.

You are a noob here and act like you have a clue.

You don't. About audio, value or any part of your rant you are on. You just got into this and you have a crappy attitude on top of it.

Your numbers you gave are not indicative of a specific place in the US. Where again? California? Iowa? Where??

$10k is investment most if not all can do. They do it every day. I see them at AXPONA each year and the numbers grow every year.

I see audiophiles buy systems for $2k too. $200 too.

I used all of those examples, my angry young man. But you ignored it three times.

You are showing you are not an honest nor genuine person by any stretch from your words above. You push your own false narrative of what you claim I said. You know that too- and it's cowardly.

I've been in this hobby for a long time. Understanding any part of it is not hard- it takes time and practice.

And patience.

If one has to build a system over time. Great. That's how you get to where you want to go and build your passions over time.

But- your crazy, hard arguments about what people are doing and not doing and what they can and cannot afford is pure bullshit. Spare us your assumptions.

They are all wrong.

prerich45's picture
Submitted by prerich45 on August 22, 2024 - 11:30am

@DaveinSM You are correct. My son-in-law is a six-figure guy, but like my sons, have utilized the used market to get high performing systems for an affordable amount of money. The youth...who are not exposed to something more, are generally looking for lifestyle components. However if you get some to listen to a nice system, they want to get the same sound. My son has a lot of people in Portland wanting sound like his. He's introducing them to the used audio market....that doesn't currently help the industry, but it may pay dividens down the road...just maybe :)

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 22, 2024 - 11:45am

I did and many of my friends did. We built it over time.

We even got something called a line of credit! lol... really.

Something anyone can enjoy the fruits of. You guys are talking like it's soooo hard overcoming your situation. It's about choices and passion and separating that from your income like you would about any condo or car or whatever anyone deems as essential.

If audio is essential- invest less in your car or other luxuries and investments that become a 'requirement' in your lifestyle.

$10,000 or $2000 is a not a lot for someone making over $100k a year.

But again, neither of you have explained WHAT AFFORDABLE IS.

Spit it out.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 22, 2024 - 11:09pm

Thank you. There are so many ways we can explain the same things over and over again, but someone as obtuse and wrongheaded as glotz will never understand it because he doesn’t want to understand it. I don’t have the patience to explain reality over and over again to someone who isn’t willing to see it.

I’m done engaging with that troll.

orfeo_monteverdi's picture
Submitted by orfeo_monteverdi on August 15, 2024 - 2:07am

[please forgive my poor English]

"The problem with high efficiency speakers is that they trade off low frequency extension for that sensitivity"

I respectfully disagree.

IMHO, hORNS FP10 MKIII 96dB monitors are a possible answer here. They sound terrific, are affordable (in €5400 in EU), with horn compression driver which does NOT shout. Very good timbres. Very enthusiastic reviews in EU. Jaw-dropping finishing. Made in Poland. And...they go down to 30Hz.

I advised a famous Brussels dealer to go listen to them in Munich. Poor demo, but they listen the hORNS in their shop afterwards. The owner and his business partner were both stunned (and they are dealers for: Wilson, YG, TAD, Magico, B&W, Vivid, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, Triangle, Cabasse, Devialet, etc, so high end gear, they have heard a lot). They instantly decided to stock hORNS as a new brand in their shop.

But I see they are still waiting for an American importer.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 15, 2024 - 8:37am

Interesting design, but low frequency extension is given as 50Hz in the website, not 30: https://horns.pl/en/speaker-sets/fp10/

And, like I said, the trade off between efficiency and bass extension generally does hold true. There’s no such thing as a perfect speaker design, horns included. I see that for a monitor, the fp10 has a large cabinet for a monitor to achieve that efficiency… and with that rear large port, is unlikely to reach 30hz in room response. Maybe if you slam it up against a wall? Then there’s other problems. And I’ve never liked the timbre and imaging quality of horns.

Good luck to them, but this is definitely one of those designs that I would need to audition extensively before purchasing.

AND YOU’RE STILL GOING TO NEED A SUB.

thethanimal's picture
Submitted by thethanimal on August 13, 2024 - 8:04am

"decent extension" in the low frequencies. The Zu Audio DW6 are rated by the manufacturer down to 30 Hz with a 95 dB sensitivity. That's plenty low enough for all but some electronic music for the target audience (esoteric music on instruments more than a century old need not apply). And at $1,600/pair, USA made, and hardly the size of an Avantgarde, they're right in line with what Jim is talking about here.

beave's picture
Submitted by beave on August 14, 2024 - 10:53pm

Based on measurements of another Zu speaker (https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-audio-soul-supreme-loudspeaker-measurements), they exaggerate their sensitivity considerably. It's still high, but nowhere near their claimed number.

I'm also highly skeptical of their claimed bass extension.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 15, 2024 - 11:11pm

Yep, all this and I was skeptical of the lightweight, unbraced cabinets and complete absence of a midrange driver. They were usually 10” diameter woofer drivers coupled with a super tweeter and, if I remember correctly, a rudimentary or even nonexistent crossover. Could be wrong, but I didn’t expect decent imaging or neutral timbre out of their early designs.

thethanimal's picture
Submitted by thethanimal on August 16, 2024 - 6:47am

They lack a midrange driver because the 10" driver runs full-range -- it doesn't need a midrange driver. It has a rudimentary crossover because that's all that's need to high-pass the supertweeter.

I run 10" full range drivers in a mostly unbraced cabinet (which isn't really a problem when the driver only has 2 mm of excursion). If you're not expecting decent imaging or neutral timbre you'll be blown away when you do audition a full-range driver.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 13, 2024 - 8:19am

Yeah, those are reasonably compact florstanders, but most apartment dwellers have space for bookshelf speakers.

Personally, I’m not a fan of Zu and their idiosyncratic designs- I think that prospective buyers should definitely audition them extensively and at home before committing.

Based on Steve Guttenberg’s review of these, it’s good to see evolution in their designs and performance.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 13, 2024 - 8:37am

I do think Devialet is doing the right thing for them. They are breaking that mold for themselves. Great. Too bad I cannot support the elite end of the market, thought I do admire their efforts and the products.

You are right in wanting Quality for rational dollars. It IS all there in the industry, it's just not promoted, marketed or sold the way it should be, largely because of the insular nature of the market and perhaps most normal people's basic aversion to spending on pure luxury (unless it's bling for the person).

I personally do not believe that a turntable system for $500-$1000 is a 'very fine' source; at least not in relation to a similarly priced DAC. It's splitting hairs, but double or triple the investment, imo.

But at least there are more products of all price points more than ever, analog included. One can get anything they want for their budget or price-point, it just requires a bit of effort and research / Stereophile.

It's really the desire to bling an apartment out in stereo finery that is lacking- or the education in the mainstream. The industry is still not there in terms of visibility (though I relish it- Popularizing our hobby would be both bad and good.)

Inflation is the culprit over the past 20 years in audio and across all goods and services. Our dollars buy exponentially less across every single segment of our economy as well. The rich and ultra rich have destroyed our collective futures.

Garfield's picture
Submitted by Garfield on August 13, 2024 - 11:09am

There's a lot of decent affordable gear, but it usually doesn't get much coverage here. Take for example Elac or Fyne speakers, Denon or NAD amps, Bluesound or Cambridge streamers etc.

David Harper's picture
Submitted by David Harper on August 13, 2024 - 11:24am

Not sure there is any such thing as young audiophiles. Audiophiles are an anachronism. A strange and curious phenomenon of the recent past. I was one of them. But in the end I realized it was a silly and unimportant interest.

thethanimal's picture
Submitted by thethanimal on August 13, 2024 - 1:14pm

You're too worried about anachronisms to realize you're anatopic.

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 14, 2024 - 9:00am

These people have tens of thousands of dollars to disposably spend on technology. Stereos and audio are technology. Many spend it on a vehicle instead of another form of joy, like music.

What IS an "important" interest?

I dunno about 'stories' being necessary anywhere here. It's nice for creating memories, but not required.

Look at Schiit Audio. There entire company stays in the $100- $2000 range for the most part. I own a Schiit Modius DAC and it's good- for the money.

It won't be more accurate nor more pleasing to listen to than something in the $2000 range or even close to that. Better parts cost more.

But for what it does and its price of $225, it fits needs for many music lovers that want to be like audiophiles, but cannot afford it. (Sorry, but it's true. It's the same with automobiles and houses and everything else being sold commercially. Better parts and quality- Costs more.

dierkx1's picture
Submitted by dierkx1 on August 13, 2024 - 11:51am

https://www.neodio.fr/en/hifi/amplifier-tma/

Nicely done!

teched58's picture
Submitted by teched58 on August 14, 2024 - 3:22am

The most important thing I always keep in mind about the Shoppes at Columbus Circle, which Jim hasn't mentioned possibly because he's attached, is that it's a very, very nice place to go to with a date.

(There are some places upstairs you can enjoy a glass of wine or a drink without spending $1k. You'll only have to spend a coupla hundred.)

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on August 14, 2024 - 1:13pm

... is it called the Center Bar? Something like that? Out in the middle on an upper floor? Good cocktails for (except for the silly ones) pretty average New York prices. And then of course there's Dizzy's Club, a great place to hear live jazz. Not a fan of the larger theaters at Jazz at Lincoln Center, but I do like Dizzy's quite a bit.

Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile

teched58's picture
Submitted by teched58 on August 15, 2024 - 2:27pm

...of the same place. Not sure of the name.

jimtavegia's picture
Submitted by jimtavegia on August 14, 2024 - 4:22am

The high and low of NYC. I feel for any young person who is thinking of home ownership in 2024 and beyond. Those of us who pay attention are still trying to figure out the draw of NYC in 2024?

As for audio with the near demise of SACD, what is left considered High Rez are the CD and the LP, unless you want to spend crazy money on R2R and tape you can play. I am glad I bought my Technics SL-100C. It was affordable and very high quality IMHO. It now has the AT ML stylus and sounds as good as I need.

I am not sure what makes sense anymore as more and more are streaming and I guess one must decide how much "bling" one needs to enjoy that? I have enjoyed Tidal, but still buy 5 to 10 CDs a month. I do wish SACD has caught on and players were affordable, which is one of the reasons I think it died.

I have been a great fan of the "Now Hear This" series with Scott Yoo and have all 5 DVDs of current programs offered, plus their show of "Beethoven's Ghost". They are great fun even with the PCM audio at 448kbps. What I will never get is the race for better video to 4k, and 8K and beyond, and then MP3 sound.

It seems like Dr. Kal's approach with his system and superb music software easily at his disposal with many SACD titles he has, his expenditure makes sense, but with what the music industry is now delivering, I question the prices of very high end audio. If one can afford it I do hope you can truly enjoy it.

jimtavegia's picture
Submitted by jimtavegia on August 14, 2024 - 4:27pm

The DVD contains the video presentation of their making of each of the tracks; in churches, a lighthouse, in a back yard. What I noticed for the first time today was the bit-rate.

The DVD video was over 7 megs to 8 megs, but this is the first DVD I have that had real 24/48 audio at 1.5 MBPS audio. 1411kbps would have been redbook. I always wondered why it sounded good and now I know.

thethanimal's picture
Submitted by thethanimal on August 15, 2024 - 7:31am

Almost everyone scoffs at me when I say I can hear a profund difference in sound quality with a Bluray disc vs. 4K streaming content, and that's with a pretty low-end Sony player and using the TV pass-through to optical into a Bluesound Node 2i. It makes sense to me with the vast gulf in data rates for 4k streaming vs. a Bluray, and obviously a large part of that streaming data rate is devoted to video resolution and HDR, but what I didn't expect was a discernible difference in 4K streaming vs. DVD, as I thought those data rates were similar. Yet it wasn't hard to hear when I popped in my old DVD of "Cars" the other day after we've streamed it on Disney+ probably 15 times in the last month. Having young kids really gives one an opportunity to lean into the long-term listening evaluation as opposed to the quick A/B method, and it's the same thing on repeat so it really becomes etched in the brain.

barfle's picture
Submitted by barfle on August 15, 2024 - 8:27am

“ As for audio with the near demise of SACD, what is left considered High Rez are the CD and the LP, unless you want to spend crazy money on R2R and tape you can play.”

Dutton Vocallion is still releasing SACDs, and Rhino is releasing about 20 blu-ray (audio only) discs every year. The SDE Shop is also releasing blu-rays several times a year.

These are all in the “better than CD” range, and are reasonably priced.

jimtavegia's picture
Submitted by jimtavegia on August 15, 2024 - 8:44am

It will show the bit rate for video and the audio carrier and the bitrate and you can see if there is any compressed audio (MP3), not to be confused with compression used in mastering the audio.

When I did book reading for Audible I recorded everything in redbook (16/44.1) and then had to convert it to MP3, usually 320kbps, for THEIR REQUIREMENTS. In Sony SoundForge it would still show the original bit and sample rate of 16/44.1 .

I now look at audio and display see what all the audio is. If you have some poorly recorded dialogue tracks from Acorn or BritBox productions, but the time it gets through our ROKU boxes it has lost much clarity.

ok's picture
Submitted by ok on August 14, 2024 - 1:42pm

..hifi they do not.

Woodhouse's picture
Submitted by Woodhouse on August 16, 2024 - 7:58am

to be able to use proper hifi kit. With the limited space they have, all they can use is a small Sonos and headphones. And in the meantime, the older generation, including myself, will only sell their large houses for high prices to other people who are already on the property ladder. So if we want youngsters to enter the hifi market we should sell our houses to them for a reasonable price.

Stevens's picture
Submitted by Stevens on August 14, 2024 - 2:20pm

I used Devialet Expert for 7 years and still have two Reactors.
One of the things the brand is built around is production efficiency. They came from the mobile phone industry. The parts count is not an issue as their automated production can place 6,000 parts per hour, although they run slightly slower. They have to buy the parts in huge quantities (they come on large tapes), so they have to make in large quantities. Their quality control results in almost no failures.
It's seriously good hifi. It's not a business model that can be copied because of the amount of funding they got.

RickG's picture
Submitted by RickG on August 14, 2024 - 5:19pm

I'm thinking back when I started thinking about listening to music on a high quality system. I was at college at the time and severely restricted for funds, so a true Hifi system was out of the question. It took years and had to assemble it piecemeal to get to a respectable system. I have to believe this is still common, the first (or second, or third) system will evolve over time. But, and this is the key, I knew good quality systems existed! Is that true now? I know my kids who are now young adults have heard my system and they have brought friends over listening to my system and have been wowed by the difference in sound. I also have past issues of Stereophile lying around which has fascinated some visitors, I give them past issues just so they can pique their mind to what is possible. Otherwise, these young people will never step into a true Hifi dealer unless they get interested and seek it out.

In the end, it's all about getting new people to discover what good sound is like and what is available, even with small budgets. Once they start, they won't stop!

Glotz's picture
Submitted by Glotz on August 15, 2024 - 9:13am

One issue of this mag to a kid wanting to learn is huge.

Jim Hagerman's picture
Submitted by Jim Hagerman on August 14, 2024 - 10:22pm

"excellent, unpretentious ingredients simply and meticulously prepared"

There are a bunch of us out here doing exactly that, delivering wonderful performance-per-dollar. However, that also inherently means no gigantic advertising budget...

[Edited to add signature; thanks Jim!-jca]]

Jim Hagerman
Hagerman Audio Labs

adrianwu's picture
Submitted by adrianwu on August 15, 2024 - 1:02am

It seems there is a misconception that one needs to trade high efficiency for bass extension. I am using 15" drivers with 99dB sensitivity, and so the compromise lies not on the drivers but on the crossovers. With class D amps of high quality and low cost, there is no reason not to have an active bass with its own amplification and do away with the passive crossover. One can then use a high sensitivity mid/treble driver, and some drivers can reach 100dB in sensitivity without horn. Using horn loading will have other advantages under certain circumstances, such as controlling directivity, and horn loading also lowers distortion.
When I started dabbling in audio during the early 80s, the second hand and/or DIY route was the way to go. One gains technical expertise along the way, and can even be lucrative since there is always a market for refurbished vintage equipment. This is one way how the best equipment of an earlier era can be within reach for young enthusiasts. There seems to be less interest in DIY nowadays, which is a shame.

Jim Austin's picture
Submitted by Jim Austin on August 15, 2024 - 6:25am

I would just add that it isn't necessary to go to extremes--extreme sensitivity and extremely low power. Sensitivity in the low/mid 90s and an amplifier of 10-20 INTERESTING watts should suffice to produce a very musical system. And for a system like this, bass response need extend only to 40Hz or so (although some contemporary music has synth bass that goes lower). In principle at least, this is achievable in eg bass-reflex systems and simple amplifier topology, whether tubes or solid state.

And yes, due to the simplicity of many such designs, DIY enters the picture: Systems like this are explicable the choices made--the story--accessible to regular folks who invest a little time. Whether they choose to solder themselves or merely invest themselves in the story, either can make the experience far richer.

Jim Austin, Editor
Stereophile

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 15, 2024 - 7:39pm

All other things equal, there is an inherent tradeoff between efficiency and bass extension.

What you’re referring to here is compensating for both by using massive drivers and presumably very bulky and large cabinets with lots of internal volume.

Sure, any speaker can have low extension and efficiency with unlimited cabinet and driver size.

And the topic here was affordable, entry level designs for young people. Not many of them are going to have the space or the budget for such a large speaker, and few if any will have the patience to DIY any of it.

They are going to want speakers that fit into the decor of their apartments without taking up half the living room. They’ve traditionally gotten around those limitations very well with powered speakers and/or sub/sat designs. The home theater boom taught some important but painful lessons to the industry.

orfeo_monteverdi's picture
Submitted by orfeo_monteverdi on August 16, 2024 - 1:23pm

[please forgive my poor English]

Music - and culture in general - were absent in my family environment. I experienced my first encounter with quality music at the age of 14, via an exposure to a pair of high-end loudspeakers at a local dealer, in a lower-middle-class area in town. (today, I attend approx. 35 live un-amplified concerts/year, in various concert halls.)

Needless to say that neither the manufacturer of those high-end speakers which fascinated me (built by a French SME), nor the dealer, would have today the budget to rent an open space in, say, a French equivalent to the Shoppes at Columbus Circle, in Paris for instance.(this is affordable only for Devialet, which now has more than 250 employees, has €151 millions funding and is listed on the stock exchange!).
Sure, affordable "high-end" options exist (speakers? €2500 Musical Fidelity LS3/5a, Harbeth, Spendor, MoFi, the French Jean-Marie Reynaud, etc). But none of the marketing budget of these brands can afford a presence in the Shoppes at Columbus Circle-like places. Only big actors/players with "monster cash" like Devialet can, which ultimately reduces representativeness and the visible offer (visible outside a dealer's shop walls). Actually, none of the best value-for-money loudspeaker manufacturer can be visible there.

In hifi, there are only two possible paradigms indeed. Since a high-end "revelation", as I had at the age of 14 at a dealer's, can only occur if the listener is directly, physically exposed to the gear, there are only two possibilities. Either 1) a youngster/newbie goes to the gear (at a dealer's), or 2) the gear comes to him, in a shopping mall for instance, or in any place where youngsters are supposed to flock; all too expensive places for most affordable high-end manufacturers anyway (Stereophile reported though a "lecture"/demo made by a loudspeaker manufacturer in a high school classroom in order to "educate" young people to what good sound really is; great but too rare initiative).
In the 2nd paradigm, only big players/actors would offer exposure to youngsters, as only big players have a big enough marketing budget.

For obvious reasons, dealers are key to the 1st paradigm: young people, cleverly motivated by an inexpensive marketing action, to come and discover something they don't know, in a place they don't know (a distribution of flyers on a campus inviting them to a "musical discovery evening" tailored for them can be an example of promotion within the reach of a reseller, supported by the importer for example).

Therefore, if dealers disappear, only the second paradigm will be practicable. And we all se what this will mean in terms of diversity, and small players (manufacturers and dealers alike) who make affordable and quality industrial craftsmanship, are going to get crushed.
That is why I think dealers should consider doing direct marketing campaign to attract youngsters in their shop: special events dedicated to them: how to get good or acceptable sound from music streamed via a smartphone? How to convert them to physical media? (which can be attractive for them -think about LP's-, and of good quality, without the hassle of power station made of switches and streamer and DAC in order to make streaming decent). Special listening sessions dedicated to them where they could listen to their music too, and discover new ones. This would require the dealer to stay open in the evening, for instance once a month, etc. THAT way, youngsters could get equipped with a pair of, say, MoFi speakers, power with an affordable SS amplifier, and, say a Rega P3 turntable: gear that they could never, ever be exposed to in a $2000/day fashionable shopping mall in a high street (not to speak about the required silence which for a demo: Devialet has its own room!).

We have a role to play, too, by trying to "educate" our nephews, sons, or even friends (not always easy, I know).

Those ways, dealers and us, audiophiles, could support this culture.
What is transmitted, we call it culture.
What is not transmitted, disappears.

supamark's picture
Submitted by supamark on August 17, 2024 - 5:36pm

1. Reviewers need to use more modern music in their reviews, not just old jazz, classical, and classic rock. Young people don't relate to that music. I know the demographic target of Stereophile is older than average, but you still need that younger demographic to age into your target. Hiring good younger writers (like JM) is a good start, because they're hard to find.

2. The KEF LS50 Wireless II and LS60 (surprisingly small) are the type of products that would appeal to younger people. They're small so they'll fit in the homes (mostly apartments) they can afford, but can be upgraded with subs and a turntable. They're internet connected and can be run from an app. They also sound good and measure well. A slightly higher ratio of "value" products in the review mix, maybe coupled to a young "Audio Cheapskate 2.0"? Also, streaming integrateds, aka the new receiver, keep reviewing 'em.

3. Revive your A/V stuff (YouTube, maybe a podcast or two) because them youngfolk seem to spend a LOT of time on their phones. More ad bux available too. Link to this website and back to drive traffic.

4. Leverage Sound & Vision to funnel younger folk towards Stereophile (and Analog Planet/Hi-Fi News) and better sound. They'll need to start lab testing products again - no tests = no reference for subjective opinions. It also alienates the ASR crowd, which based on web traffic is not insignificant. Stereo Review was my gateway, then Audio and Stereophile back in the 80's.

5. Write more about surround/Atmos (from disc, not that crApple stuff) to bring in the home theatre crowd. They're already 2/3 of the way there...

Column idea - Music All Around, Kal can get LS50's for Atmos and have a ball. The number of Atmos mixes/remixes is multiplying like bunnies. All the big (and many mid-tier) pro mix rooms are going Atmos so the music companies are all in which equals plenty of product.

6. Speaking of ASR, that significant web traffic tells me there's a large pool of possible audiophiles but they need to actually hear the good stuff and how it really does stomp a mudhole in the cheap stuff. To everyone - support your local dealer! That's where you hear the good stuff, and one of the places audiophiles are made.

7. Headphones! Get another regular reviewer of headphones/amps, with measurements. It's the least expensive way in to the high end, and you can do it pretty much anyplace without bothering others. Make it someone who still listens to current popular music regularly.

DaveinSM's picture
Submitted by DaveinSM on August 17, 2024 - 7:15pm

I agree with pretty much all of this, and I think that KEF is doing well because they’re offering upscale but obtainable entry level designs like the LS50 and LS60 that appeal to the upwardly mobile, “aspirational” young crowd.

And their full product line utilizing trickled down versions of the same UniQ driver gives their customers a clear upgrade path all the way up to the $200k Muons with lots of choices for every budget in between.

Consumers are generally very brand loyal, so companies like KEF are going to be vital links from the mainstream to the niche high end audiophile market.

ken4stereophile's picture
Submitted by ken4stereophile on August 27, 2024 - 7:25am

A friend of mine (using an unfortunate inheritance) bought a McIntosh/Dahlquist DQ-10 system that I got to listen to with music that I knew. The utterly immersive experience of hearing whole new dimensions to music that I was familiar with got me hooked--I got tired of hearing Fresh Aire III. Since that time, I've probably spend well over $100K over the years (nay, decades) pursuing that experience.

If you want to reach new customers, find ways to provide this kind of experience to new markets. Dealers could offer highly advertised "New Listener" days (maybe even with free food and wine) where people could bring their own music and hear it through high-quality systems. Have setups where people could bring their own CDs or even iPhones and connect them to the system. Then have displays of affordable systems at several price points

Another path for potential new audiophiles is to focus on headphone systems. This provides better sound per dollar than a 2-channel system and is probably a better fit for apartment-dwellers anyway. When they move to larger homes, their taste for high-quality sound will already be ingrained.

Provide this experience and you will have a better chance of hooking new audiophiles.

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