Ariel Bitran

I recently installed a pair of Valhalla 2 XLR Interconnects in my system and can say without question that these cables live up to what was written in the above article. I discovered improvements in clarity, detail, dynamics and soundstage. While not the tour de force cable that is Nordost Odin, it is a vastly superior cable to the Valhalla and the other Nordost series that are under Valhalla. If you are a fan of Nordost products or you are considering upgrading a cable or interconnect, even if it is a different brand, I highly suggest you give the V2 a try. You will not be disappointed. 

Thanks to Nordost for giving me and other scientists in electrical engineering a good laugh.

the new cables brought out more inner-detail to the instruments, added spaciousness to the soundstage, and eased and sweetened the highs

all that plus 96% speed of light for only 51,649.95 USD - even Marty McFly would be impressed.

Is a free tattoo included if one buys the whole set?

I've bookmarked this page and can't wait.  Ariel, your whole life is ahead of you, don't blow your hi-fi cred on this one.

costs $9799 for two meters and an additional $1100 for each additional half-meter

Is the $1 on the 2m pair a discount for willingness to be fleeced? As for the additional, half-meter should it rather be $1099 per 46.5 cm just to round it up audiophile way...

The next you are doing a cable comparison with $10,000 cables on a $200,000 system. Come on man...

Ariel, it is my opinion that your ears will never receive enough "training" because there's nothing more to hear; you have entered the realm of psycho-acoustics, and apparently there's no turning back. "The Emperor's New Interconnect" is the one and only appropriate title for any article such as this.

By the way, regarding your detective skills and the blown tweeter... I love your definition of "proper listening environment,"—the only thing missing is a bong and a VHS copy of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

It's cool that you're writing up so many articles for the Stereophile homepage; don;t spoil it by insisting that interconnects have an impact when all science points to the fact that their influence is vanishingly minimal once basic electrical parameters are taken care of.

By the way, did you ever think to ask the good folks at Nordost what percentage of the speed of light electrons travel in a Radio Shack interconnect? Seriously, I want to know. 

Finally, here's a tip: Calibration mics are quite affordable. Use one on a regular basis and you'll catch most issues pertaining to frequency response, as well as giving yourself a powerful tool to improve your systems sound—unlike ridiculous interconnects, proper use of a calibration Mic with some RTA software will lead to genuine improvements in your system's performance.

PsycheDelicious

So, you guys would rather junk around in a beat up 1980's F-150 than drive a Lamborgini Veneno and you think everyone else should too? Unless I won the next Powerball lottery, I'd never be able to afford the Veneno, but given an opportunity to test drive one, who wouldn't? Well, sounds like you guys would rather pretend those kinds of stratospherically-priced items don't exist....

I purchased these cables and hooked them up to my Pioneer Elite vsx-52, Emotiva Amps and polk audio Monitor 60 speakers. Now my system out classes MBL's highest end gear. You don't need to by high end equipement, just spend your money on ultra premium cables.

So what's the point of warning people who can't afford a yacht, a Veneno, a Rolex, or the Valhalla 2?

Test drives allow you to try out things that exist outside of your own imagination.

I purchased these cables and hooked them up to my Pioneer Elite vsx-52, Emotiva Amps and polk audio Monitor 60 speakers. Now my system out classes MBL's highest end gear. You don't need to by high end equipement, just spend your money on ultra premium cables.

Congratulations, you just saved a whole lot of money you never had!

Do you think everyone else will have exactly the same listening experience you've had? These cables are of no benefit only to you and your music system, right?

In other words, you didn't have fun driving a Veneno? I wonder why...

Absolutely nothing wrong with a good ol' F-150... Drive on!

Of all the negative comments assigned to this article. All the posts claiming they cannot and will not work. All the myriad of supposed reasons why one should never buy such a product, does it not seem odd that the only two comments that are positve, and agree with the article, are from people who have actually purchased V2 cables and installed them in thier system? Villify these cables all you want, until YOU have spent the money, installed them in your system, and judged for yourself if the claims made by the manufacturer are true or not, you really cannot say for sure, can you? 

Nordost own website:

From Valhalla 2 interconnect: "V2 is extremely fast, at over 87% the speed of light."

From Valhalla 2 speaker cables: "The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at over 96% the speed of light".

Therefore, the entire system will be limited at 87% provided there is not somewhere a lower value to be found.

Now to put in perspective this terrible loss, the exact speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s so the difference between 96% and 87% is huge:

27,000,000 m/s! This is HUGE. On your system with overall 10 m length of pricy cables, you're looking at a 0.00000037 s "very clearly" audible difference!

Can you afford to lose sleep over this?

There is an important distinction that has been missed here. The article written by Mr. Bitran is about the Nordost Valhalla 2 (V2)  in a specific system, in a specific show, on a specific day. And that was the extent of of the article. The two positive comments, one of which was mine, were both about the V2 used in a home based system by two different consumers. All the discussion about this other cable and testing this or that has absolutely no relevancy whatsoever. That is like saying because you test drove a Ford and didn't like it you would never buy a Chevy. What ever anyone feels about "other" high end cables, or even the whole concept of reference cables, has no bearing at all on the legitimacy of the V2 cable. The only legitimate argument, as it pertains to the article, is whether or not the V2 cable offers a sonic improvement in your system. I found a significant improvement, so did the other person who responded favorably, and so did Mr. Bitran. So if anyone has not tested the V2 cable in their system, whether by purchase or by loan, then no inference about whether or not the cable lives up to it's claims can legitimately be made. Criticize all you would like, but it is simply conjecture. 

There is also a lot of discussion regarding cost. Why does cost even matter? Either you can afford and more importantly justify the cost or you cannot. High end audio has never been about affordability and likely never will be. Every audiophile with a significant other understands that. If the cost of a V2 cable is so outrageous, then what is acceptable? A $1000.00 cable? Or a $500.00 cable? Maybe a $100.00 cable? If you can justify a $1000.00 cable the people who would only spend a $100.00 would think you  are wasting your money. But you had no problem at all spending a $1000.00. If it was only about cost then the most practical way to listen to music would be a very inexpensive MP3 player. There would be no need for high end audio. But that is not how it works. 

There is nothing wrong with a system that costs $3000.00, $5000.00 or even $10,000.00. They are all capable of producing great music. But like it or not, there are those people who have $100,000.00, $200,000.00 and more invested in an audio system. Just because those people have affordability on a larger scale are they therefore wrong? I have had very inexpensive cables and interconnects and found them inferior to the products that I now have. That is proof enough to me that the claims made by Nordost are true. As well as the other Nordost Odin, Valhalla and Tyr II cables I already have prove the point. And if that is not enough, my own ears are the definitive judge. 

Because at the end of the day, no scientist, engineer, PhD or anyone else will ever be as much of an expert as I am as to how my system sounds in my home. That is the bottom line. 

Over 400 people voted on this poll, the majority of voters did not hear exotic cables offer any improvement, and a mere 7% think they heard exotic cables offer significant improvement in sound quality. 

What's amazing here is that neither Nordost or the author of this article can clearly state what technical characteristic creates the alleged sonic improvement that brings Valhalla 2 above Valhalla 1.

Is it a case of changing the shape of the front handles that makes amp 2 better than amp 1?

The following list below should end this debate about cables:

For the folks on a budget http://www.monoprice.com/

For the folks who can spend a little more: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

And the people who own a money tree: http://www.nordost.com/

Ariel related that he heard a difference in the sound characteristics between the V1 and V2, and described that difference in a positive manner.  Psychedelicious asserts that Ariel was either deceived, or that he may have heard some miniscule difference that was only subjectively better.  

Psychedelicious asserts that well-engineered cables essentially perform the same, or at least close enough that large increases in the cost of cables past a certain point are a deception by the manufacturers of such cables, tantamount to shysterism.  He also insinuates that people with the means to afford such cables only buy them to assuage their insecurities or feed their egos.  Although he asserts that measurements are only a beginning point to discerning quality difference between equipment, he also asserts that differences between products which are not measureable either do not exist or are insignificant. He believes statistical data and anecdotes which support his standpoints and discounts that which doesn't.

Ariel believes cables can make a difference, and at this point does not have a stated opinion on whether there is significant difference between cables of varying cost. He does not openly pass judgement on cable manufacturers who sell very expensive cables, or people who buy them. He believes statistical data and anecdotal evidence which supports his standpoints and discounts that which doesn't.

I hope I have accurately presented the two major opinions in this thread. I'm just a little agitated at myself for wasting so much time reading through it all. Since the last 3 pages have pretty much only regurgitated the above information ad nauseum, and there is no hint of anybody changing their opinions, and there is no hint that any new information or new viewpoint may surface any time soon, why don't we all step away from the keyboards and do something else? It's nice outside.

GeorgeHolland, you're incorrect on a few levels.  Stereophile does admit to being wrong from time to time.  The most infamous example that comes to mind is the Carver Challenge. 

Secondly, when one divorces subjectivity from objectivity, one is left with a spreadsheet.  Spreadsheets don't interpret themselves, and for the average human being they're boring as hell to read. The fact that you waste large amounts of time criticizing an audiophile magazine for the method in which they approach their reviews on their own forum pages proves my point.  You may cringe and howl and cry foul at what you perceive to be dishonest or pointless journalism, but you are still reading it and you are still spending your own time and devoting your own energies to responding.  You may hate Stereophile's method, but your own output proves you find it more interesting than some other mythical media outlet that provides factual information without subjective opinion.  Facts are meaningless without interpretation.  

I've never heard from any journalist who thinks DBTs are worthwhile. You may think they're scared of being proven wrong, and you're probably partly right. But I don't want to see DBTs in reviews.  DBTs are a test for the reviewer, not the speaker. When I read a review, I want to hear how the speaker performs.  I can tell for myself if I trust the reviewer's judgment based on the body of their work. 

Bottom line for me is, I do understand what you're saying.  To be frank, I agree with you in part; I think boutique cables are largely snake oil and in the grand scheme of things, they are the least important link in the chain from source to ear. And I am cynical when I read reports on exotic cables(and, for that matter, any gear too far beyond my budget). 

The point I'm trying to make is it doesn't matter. You've made your case, nicely nestled between Psychedelicious and that moron with the Calvin avatar. The time and energy you are putting in may make you feel a little better about your frustrations(just like the time I'm putting in makes me feel better about mine), but it's not going to make Atkinson admit he's wrong, nor will it make Stereophile even reconsider exchanging its format of flourishing flowery and ecstatic prose at pieces of audio gear or homoerotic boutique cables in favor of spreadsheets and machine language.  It will not stop self-indulgent, moneyed people from buying mystical audio cables, nor will it stop enterprising hucksters from making said cables.  You've said your piece and nobody cares except for the people who already care, so take a breath and get on with your life.

Fantastic! Okay, now say it again, but word it slightly differently. 

Here's a great article, and don't forget to read the editor's note at the end: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

Bad science is worse amongst those like Psycho-Georgie and JRusskie, who have no clue about the simple rules of scientific methodolgy, experimental design, logic, and statistics. Blind acceptance of bad science must always be rejected.

There's likely a local college near you. Take a course or two, see the light....

Don't make me bring up your lame attempt at showing us all how a SBT should be done by those reviewers in Canada in their lame magazine that you touted as being the end all in cable tests. This was in a cable thread in the forums.They didn't even bother to make it blind and only swithed cables once, yet you crowed at how that is the way to do it. You are clueless.

Did you bother to read the last link by eugovector? It was written by Victor Serinus, the poster child of golden ear listening and endorsed by Nordost. Oopsie Chrissy, foot in mouth disease strikes you yet again.

the only thing that smells is your so called education. I see you have learned well from JA and Ariel, when confronted with facts just say something silly instead. Did you get your diploma from the school of make believe? Say hello to May Belt and Geof for me, your closest buddies on the forums, you certantly think alike.

The point of an ABX test is to test the listener. There's no reason to do such a test other than to prove or disprove a person's ability to listen discriminately.  The test may have validity for some reason or another but it doesn't belong in reviews or at-a-glance previews.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the way Tyll Hertsens conducts his reviews and shootouts.  He does measurements, and he also has a handful of short audio clips he uses for reviews. The clips are short enough that he can quickly cycle through them, and he's heard them so many times they have a semi-permanent place in his head.  I don't care who you are, playing unfamiliar music in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar gear will produce nothing better than random results in an ABX test, unless the differences in sound are huge.  To say nothing about whether boutique cabling makes a real difference.

As to the vitriolic childishness, why? Is it the internet, or do you all really have nothing better to do then act like middle school asses?

Calvin,  "the point" of said testing is to either test the listener or to test the cables. Given that our auditory memory is even shorter than our visual memory, especially when evaluating things such as aspects of a sound, listening to unfamiliar music in an unfamiliar environment on unfamiliar gear is not a set of conditions conducive to accurate listening--no matter how long you get to listen to the selection.  In any case, an evaluation where the objective is to see if the listener can determine which cable is which is an evaluation of the listener, not the cable. Which is obviously why you suggest Stereophile and the like do these tests; you are already certain there is no real performance difference in exotic cables and you want Stereophile to perform tests like this to prove them wrong. Regardless of whether or not there is any real performance difference, we can all agree that of all the components in a system, the cabling makes the least amount of difference. Given that, blind testing is a terrible way to discern what is comparatively such a minuscule variance in performance. I'll again point to Tyll's methodology as the proper way to compare two audio components. 

Jason, you screwed up by not ensuring you had proper controls on the test. It just makes you look worse trying to make excuses. 

Chris, yesterday I disciplined my oldest boy for some pretty inexcusable behavior which included hitting his brother with a stick. As it turned out, his younger brother had been behaving like an ass all day, calling him silly names and pretty much doing everything he could to get a reaction out of him.

It reminded me of this thread, and pretty much the online audiophile world in general. 

Areil and Atkinson won't bother with any type of objective test when it comes to cables. Might hurt the money machine ya know, advertising.

"Areil and Atkinson won't bother with any type of objective test when it comes to cables. Might hurt the money machine ya know, advertising."
 

I love how you always pick Atkinson's side when he wimps out. Stereophile has no honor, no integrity, no real value other than to straddle the fence when it comes to the real world. Either a component changes the sound or it doesn't. Why bother doing intensive testing of amps, preamps and DACs then wimp out when a simple piece of wire is involved? Atkinson says he doesn't know what to test when cables and magic bowls are the subject. You honestly believe that BS?  Yesh I guess you would, now go get into your Stereophile cheerleader skirt Chrissy and "Rah rah rah!"