ssm4ssm4
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advice for new stereo system
bierfeldt
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You need a few things for great sound. Quality amplification is obvious. Great speakers and finally, for CD reproduction, a great digital to analog converter (DAC).

For floor standing speakers, I would look at the PSB Imagine X2T. I listened to these on Friday and was completely impressed. PSB offers a perfect neutral, uncolored sound yet provides an impressive level of detail. For $1300 a pair, they are a steal. These deliver bass notes down to 30hz which means you would only miss the very, very low end of piano reproduction which is down to 27.5hz.

For amplification, based strictly on sound, I would get a Preachtree Nova 65se. It has an amazingly good onboard DAC and is a superb amplifier for $799.

For a CD player, I would get an NAD C 516BEE for $299 and you will run a digital coaxial or toslink cable from the CD player to the integrated amp. This will leave the analog inputs open for addition of a turntable in the future.

For the money, I don't think you could beat this combination though unfortunately the parts don't match.

If matching pieces is important to you for aesthetic reasons, you could deliver almost as good a sound with an NAD C 326BEE for $550 and a Peachtree DAC iTx for $299. The DAC iTx is a small box that could set off to the side while the NAD integrated amp and CD player would match nicely. The DAC iTx is the same DAC implementation inside of the NOVA integrated amp. This would be $50 more.

Incidentally, NAD owns PSB and sonically, they are very well matched while the Peachtree is a slightly better amplifier. I think either option would be utterly amazing for the money and you can buy all of this from Crutchfield who has a 30 day return policy so you effectively have a 30 day, in home demo. Other note, Crutchfield has a points program which would give you >$40 off a future purchase.

Total budget for either option would be $2400 for option one and $2450 for option two plus the cost of a digital cable and with option two, an RCA cable as well.

ssm4ssm4
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Thanks Bierfeldt. I've spent the last 4 hours educating myself about hi-fi. This is a great forum. I'm probably going to expand my budget a bit. Can you comment on this paring: Music Hall 15.3 amp and Music Hall c-dac15.3 CD player. They seem to go great together, are $1100 combined, and look beautiful. My listening room is a big living room, about 1000 sq feet. My other questions are about speakers. In a 1000 sq foot room, with a 50w/ channel (Music Hall amp), what are the optimal speakers for $1500 or less? Do I need a subwoofer? I rarely play music very loud and it's mostly classical music.

bierfeldt
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Your question at $1500 is tough largely because you have a big room. I would normally steer you toward bookshelf speakers, but that would be for a small to midsize room. Say, up to 400 to 500 sf. They are all relatively inefficient and hard to drive.

Thus, I would look at floor standing speakers. The best speakers in the $1500 range would be the Monitor Audio Silver 6s. They are supremely detailed, neutral and are not fatiguing in anyway. These are a superb speaker for classical music. The issue is, you can't drive them with a 50w amp. The manufacturer minimum recommended power is 60w, but to get them to open up and shine you will want more.

The lowest priced integrated I would consider is the NAD 356BEE which is $799. It is a nice unit and it would be adequate. With the NAD CD and Peachtree DAC, you would be looking at a total budget of $2900.

I would be more inclined to drive it with something like the Rogue Audio Sphinx at $1295 to really get the most out of them. You could also go with the Peachtree Nova 125se at $1199. Both are Stereophile Class B rated units. This would put you $3000 to $3400. In either case, the increased power with the more refined amplification would make the Monitor Audio's really shine.

Any one of these three wouldn't be really good, they would be exceptional. The NAD would look the best while the Rogue would likely sound the best but would also be the most expensive. I would put the Peachtree in the middle.

The PSB Imagine X2Ts would be my next choice at $1300. They are really nice and are a bit easier to drive. The minimum rating of 20w suggests that they Music Hall at 50w should be plenty to drive those PSBs. That being said, I have never heard them driven by a modest power amp and can't say with certainty you will get room filling sound with it. You have a big room. I listened to them on Friday, but they were being driven by a very high end 200w power amp.

The Music Hall is an exceptional integrated amp. It is arguably the best in the $550 range. The Music Hall CD player is supposed to be excellent though I have never heard it.

I think the PSBs with the Music Hall would be really good but would fall just short of the Monitor Audio combos because the Monitor Audio's are better speakers.

Regarding a subwoofer, it really depends on the music you listen to. The speakers I mentioned have a low end frequency of 35hz MA and 30hz PSB. A Piano, at the very low end will go down to 27.5hz though it is uncommon to hit notes that low. Timpani at the low end will be 40hz. 30hz to 35hz is perfect for music 99.9% of the time and I would not worry about a subwoofer.

The exception would be pipe organ music. Pipe Organs go to 16hz and to get full extension, you will need to add a nice subwoofer. I would suggest a Sunfire HRS 12 as it is rated to 18hz though it is $1050. There are less expensive sealed subs, but they won't deliver the frequency response you would want for organ music.

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Bierfeldt, you give me a lot to think about. The problem musically with the house is the open floor plan -- the living room, kitchen, and dining room are one giant room. Obviously not ideal acoustically. I could potentially move the system to the den or bedroom, which is about 400 sq ft. It sounds like I need completely different systems for a small room vs. a large room.

So my options for a small room are: Music Hall 15.3 amp ($550), Music Hall A15.3 CD player ($550), KEF LS mini monitor bookshelf speakers ($1500) or B & W CM5 floor standing speakers ($1500 + $400 for stands) = $2600 - $3000 + wiring.

My options for a big room are: Peachtree or Rogue amps ($1200), Music Hall CD player/DAC ($550), Monitor audio silver 6 speakers ($1500) = $3250 + wiring. I'm leaning toward the Peachtree Nova 125se since it has an internal DAC.

Considering quality of sound alone, do I get a higher quality system with the small room, or they are roughly equivalent? This will be a tough call.

2 final noob questions: If I go with the Peachtree Nova 125se, will I need any other hardware to power a turntable down the road? Is there a difference in sound quality if you bridge your ipad to the amp via bluetooth vs. plugging directly into the USB port of the amp? Sorry if the lingo is not correct.

Thanks for your help.

bierfeldt
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the Kef LS50 are amazing but are most definitely a small room speaker. They are not efficient so driving them with a small amp like the Music Hall will mean small room. I would take them 10x out of 10 over the B&W CM5 which I find overly detailed to the point of being harsh. That being said, lots of people love the CM5s and are probably the best selling speaker in this price range so you should listen to them.

In that range, there are 3 other speakers that are worth your time. The Revel Performa3 M105s which I own and are a hair warm compared to the Kefs. The Wharfedale Jade 3's which are a bit warmer than the Revels but have a wonderful detailed sound and might actually be the best for classical music. Finally, the Dynaudio Excite X14s. These are an all around super speaker that is neutral yet detailed.

The Kefs right now are the darlings, but it really depends on your room which one will work best. You will need a subwoofer with any one of those 5. I would look at the NHT b-12d at $799 or the Sunfire HRS 8 at $850. Both are ultra detailed and would marry well with these bookshelf speakers.

You will need speaker stands with all 5 of these for optimal performance.

With the Peachtree, you would need an external phono preamp in the future to add a turntable. This is a good thing IMO as externals almost always outperform internal phono stages or integrated amps. The Musical Fidelity V90 LPS at $229 or the Vincent Audio PHO-8 at $299 are fantastic, modestly priced units that would be more than adequate for any table you will buy under about $1500 and both are far better than what you will get inside the Music Hall. Not that the Music Hall phono stage is bad, but these are great.

I don't believe you can plug an iPad directly into the Peachtree. The USB input is for a PC. To stream from your iPhone, the optional BT1 would work or you could get an Apple TV and use Apples Airplay. Either will work perfectly to stream from your iPad or iPhone. You would want to connect them to the Peachtree via an optical cable.

This is a touch call which is better, small room to big room. Both setups would be amazingly good. Better would be a tough call either way. Both sets would have awesome speakers and superb amplification.

bierfeldt
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Think about which room you like to spend the most time it. I put together what I thought was going to be a dual purpose room for home theatre and listening and built a system accordingly. I never went to my theatre room to listen, I went to watch tv or movies.

I built a separate system in my living room. I now spend hours listening because that room feels more appropriate for a listening occasion.

The driver should be which room you are most likely to be in and not force others in the house to change their behavior.

ssm4ssm4
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Thanks again Bierfeldt. I think I will probably go with the big room setup: Peachtree Nova 125se amp, Monitor Audio Silver 6 speakers, and Music Hall A 15.3 CD player, unless you can recommend a cheaper high quality CD player. The advantages of the Music Hall CD player are a built-in high quality DAC that is still useful when CD's become obsolete. But this seems redundant since the amp already has a built-in DAT. So I'm not convinced yet that I need a $550 CD player with this setup.

Obvious questions are: No need for speaker stands for these speakers, right? Can you comment on all other gear I would need to get this system set up? I'm assuming I need to buy high quality cables for the speakers going to the amp? What other cables and wires would I need? I live overseas but am ordering all items from the U.S. and shipping to my home, so I'm trying to be comprehensive here.

One more thought about needing a subwoofer with this system: Do you think I would miss out on the bass and cello sections of orchestral music without a subwoofer? I also listen to rock and bluegrass at times, so I'm wondering whether I should throw in a subwoofer or just save for some other time.

bierfeldt
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A DAC in a CD player is redundant to the DAC in the Peachtree. What you are really looking for is a high quality CD transport with a digital output. $550 for that Music Hall is a waste. The least expensive, high quality disc player I know of is the NAD C 516BEE at $299. You could pay more for a Cambridge or Marantz but you are going to bypass the internal DAC and use the one in the Peachtree so spending more doesn't make sense.

The only unit worth upgrading too at an even close to reasonable price beyond the NAD would be the Cambridge Audio CXC CD transport. This is a refined transport that's only purpose is to spin and read a CD perfectly. It doesn't even have a DAC chip in it. It is $499.

No need for speakers stands with the Monitor Audio Silver 6s. They will be on the floor.

Your shopping list

Peachtree Nova 125se
Peachtree BT1 Bluetooth adapter
Monitor Audio Silver 6s
NAD C 516BEE CD Player or Cambridge Audio CXC
1 Digital Coaxial Cable, 1 Toslink Cable
Speaker Wire
8 Total Banana Plugs
A Nice Power Strip

I like Audioquest interconnects and would look at them for the Toslink and Digital Coax cables but don't get crazy. Stay at the lower end. I personally have Monster speaker wire and banana plugs. If you feel that you want higher end speaker wire, feel free but over short wire runs I don't think it has much of an impact.

For installation you would run the digital coaxial cable from the CD player to the integrated amp. You would run the Toslink cable from the BT1 to the integrated amp. This will leave the Analog "Aux" RCA input open for future attachment of a Turntable and Phono Stage. I recommend the Banana Plugs to make an easier and better looking connection to the back of the speakers and amp for the speaker wire.

If you choose to, you could swap in an Apple TV for the BT1 and use Apple Airplay instead of Bluetooth. They are of similar quality so this is an even swap for me.

Regarding a subwoofer, the lowest frequency sounds output by an instrument I can find are 27.5hz at the very low end for a piano and a five string bass that has been tuned down. The latter is uncommon. Bass drums bottom out at 40hz on occasion though most of the time they are 50-60hz. Same with Timpani. An upright double bass's lowest frequency is 41.2hz as is a normal 4 string electric bass.

The Monitor Audio's are rated to 35hz at +/- which means it produces sounds below 35hz, just not as loudly. 99.9% of music is played above 40hz. The exception to this is pipe organ music. That is the one type of music where these speakers would want for bass.

I used a pair of floor standing speakers that went to 32hz for 14 years and not once did I feel I needed a subwoofer while listening to music. I listen to Rock, Metal, Classical, Blues and Jazz mostly.

Home theatre is different or if you listen to a lot of organ music you should get a subwoofer. Home theatre sounds routinely fall below 35hz and a pipe organ goes to 16hz. Otherwise it is going to largely be a waste. If you really want a Sub, the Sunfire HRS line would be what I would look at but most of the time it won't even turn on.

ssm4ssm4
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Very helpful shopping list here.

One last question regarding speakers. i did a quick search in the $1500 price range on floor-standing speakers on Crutchfield and there's a lot to choose from: Boston Accustics M340, MartinLogan Motion 20, Definitive Technology BP-8040ST Polk Audio RTiA9, Cambridge Audio Aeromax 6, and Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73, just as some examples. The Monitor Audio Silver 6's get great reviews. I need to get to a store and actually have a listen, but I was wondering your thoughts about this list compared to the Monitor Audio Siver 6's.

Looking at Audioquest coaxial cable, the 0.75 meter Cinnamon digital coax cable is running at $59 on Amazon. I shouldn't need a longer cable, right? The CD player will be adjacent to the amp.

30 ft of the Monster Cable XP Compact high performance speaker wire runs $12.99 on amazon. Should be ok? Is there an optimal distance between the speakers and the amp, or it doesn't matter?

Here's a very basic question here: If I want to run my mac laptop or or PC to the USB port of the amp, what's the best cable to use?

Thanks again.

bierfeldt
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IMO are way better than any one of these speakers you mentioned. I would take the PSB X2Ts over any one of the speakers you mentioned. Those would be my absolute #1 and #2 choices $1500 or less.

Two speakers are relatively close in price that I think are better
- Monitor Audio Silver 8s at $2000 per pair which Crutchfield has an open box for $1800
- Kef Q900 which are $1800 every day

IMO, both are worth the extra spend. You would be good with the Peachtree with either of those speakers.

The Monitor Audio Silver 6s are better than the Kef Q700s which didn't make the list above. The next best speaker on the list above (after the PSBs) would be the Cambridge Audio Aeromax 6s. In the end, Monitor Audio makes a really good speaker at a really good price. Right now they are tough to beat.

The Audioquest Cinnamon is a darn nice cable and you don't need to go that high end. 25 inches likely will be fine though you won't have a lot of excess cable.

Most people space the speakers about 8' to 10' apart with the equipment in the middle. You will want to experiment a little to get optimal sound. This means you will need a total 14' to 16' if the equipment is centered between the speakers. This would also depending on how high off the floor your integrated amp will be and how well you can hide the wires. I think Monster XP is exactly the cable I have.

For you Mac or PC, you will connect to the amp directly via a USB cable. I would get an Audioquest Forest which will be about $35. This is actually the best way to connect and stream files.

For the Toslink cable for your Bluetooth adapter, make sure you don't get too long of a cable and optical cables can't be kinked. That is very important.

ssm4ssm4
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Thanks again for your fantastic advice. Will stick with the Monitor Audio's.

2 other questions:
1. I need to ship all this gear overseas to Bermuda from the U.S. Air carriers like Fedex would be extremely expensive so I will probably send via container ship. Besides marking as "Fragile", any other advice about safely shipping delicate equipment overseas? Are the boxes OK as is or should I repackage them with bubble wrap, etc?

I'm flying in to Miami tomorrow for a night. Any audio stores to recommend where I can sample some of the equipment above?

bierfeldt
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I know nothing about stores in Miami - I live in NYC Metro. The dealer finder on the Peachtree website stinks. I put in my zipcode and the two nearest dealers to me aren't showing up. I know Monitor Audio's is also far from perfect. I would start with the Monitor Audio dealers and call and see if any of them carry Peachtree.

I have never shipped anything overseas via container freight. I would talk to the freight company as to packaging and find out how they pack out the containers. If everything is palletized that would be good. Your boxes would be wrapped together on a wood or chet pallet providing it some buffer against what is next to it. Given the amount of foam protection in the containers you should be good that way. Your biggest fear is that something next to it is going to fall over onto your equipment in the container. If everything is palletized and shrink wrapped the risk is radically reduced.

Happy listening. I think you will be extremely happly

ssm4ssm4
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What are your thoughts about UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for surge protection? Should I get the $10 power strip or something like a CyberPower UPS? I'm not sure if this is necessary and I have no experience with these.

rrstesiak
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Here is my recommendation based on my research and direct evaluation of many components in my search for a decent system.

Here are your requirements as I understand them:

"I have $2000 - $2500 to spend. ..receiver / amplifier, speakers, and CD player..."

1. Creek Evolution 50A Integrated $1200
2. Epos Epic Bookshelf Speakers $400 or Wharfedale 10.2 both on clearance and outstanding WITH stands, add about $200
3. NAD 516 CD Player $225 on clearance
4. Musical Fidelity V90 DAC $299
*NOTE: IF you can afford it, spring instead for the PS Audio NuWave. They can still be had for $700 on clearance and truly are remarkable DACS. The V-90 is good..the NuWave: Phenomenal.

Aesthetically very pleasing, and the speakers match the amp in sonics as they are made by the same company.

Image hosted by servimg.com

Total: ~2500

Immediately after that budget shock, I whole-heartedly and seriously recommend very good cables; such as AudioQuest. For my system, I spent roughly $600 on cables eventually, and it did make a significant sound difference. As a miscellaneous, I spent about $80 on the audio rack. It's a re-purposed IKEA book case on its side.

Here is my system shown with the Creek and the Epos speakers (PS Audio NuWave and other components shown; NAD Missing):

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Cheers,

Ron

bierfeldt
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It really depends on the quality of power coming in and out of your house. The more stable your power situation is, the less you will benefit from power conditioning. For instance, if the lights dim a hair when the air conditioner goes on or the electric dryer kicks on you will greatly benefit from a power stabilizer. If your power is extremely stable with no fluctuation at all, a voltage regulator will have less of an impact and you should focus on a very good surge suppressor. If you have a lot of brownouts, a UPS and surge suppressor would be best. The last thing you want is everything to shut off suddenly due to a brownout.

I am not familiar with Cyberpower in particular. I personally am looking at the Panamax 4000 or 4300 which lack a UPS feature from Crutchfield but are voltage regulators and surge supressors. This is largely because brownouts have been rare in my area lately.

ssm4ssm4
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I'm in the process of ordering all the gear we discussed for my new stereo system. I'm interested in recommendations for an inexpensive, nice looking stereo cabinet to hold all of the above components. A TV will not be a part of the system. Thanks for the advice.

bierfeldt
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http://www.sanus.com/en_US/products/racks/efa31/

It is designed to handle vibrations well and if you need a shelf in the future, you can buy a single shelf to add to it.

Did you get to demo anything in Miami? What did you settle on?

rrstesiak
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Salamander Designs rock...

Adjustable, light and airy in design...practical...affordable..form following function:

Link to site:

http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/products/details/91d2e024-a66c-f20a-9cb5-5125e28270f2

Some examples..many many configurations...

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techdiy
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Poor choice -- the Musical Fidelity V90 LPS phono preamplifier uses a single 12V supply which means that its overload margin is sub par. Simply stated, the output stage can't swing enough voltage for adequate overload margin of at least 20dB. The manual specs overload margin of only 15dB, meaning that distortion will be evident on musical peaks. Almost all phono preamplifiers with 12V wall-wart supplies are going to be deficient in this critical area.

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Since the Rogue sphinx was suggested, what about the Magnapan .7 or MMG's- that match up comes highly rated (I posted the question under former screen name Fred). The prices of both are also within budget. Do you think these are worthwhile for him to check out?

bierfeldt
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Maggies are wonderful and sound awesome and would be on budget for just the speakers. The issue is twofold. First, the Maggies only go to 50hz so you basically need a subwoofer which you won't get for under $600. Second is the room is extremely large. Maggies are very inefficient and drink up power. In a big room, 100w would be inadequate to drive them, in a small room it would be fine. Additionally, you are going to need a much more powerful subwoofer and I would say low end option would be something like the Sunfire HRS 12 which is $1050 pushing this well beyond the OPs budget.

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You say that maggies need a subwoofer; I know little about matching components; does this mean the Maggies must be paired with a subwoofer from the same company? Or can they other brands (perhaps cheaper) be combined with the Maggies with good results?

bierfeldt
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The MMGs deliver low frequencies down to 50hz. Bass guitard, drums and many bass effects go well below 50hz. That is why I think you need a subwoofer. Given the high level of refinement that Maggies deliver, you would want to pair the with a sealed subwoofer vs ported. Ported subs offer big volume and are great for home theatre but IMO, lack proper refinement for music. I know Magnapan does produce a subwoofer, I think the refer to it a a bass panel. Or you could purchase a separate, sealed subwoofer and adjust the crossover so that there is little overlap.

I personally own two Sunfire which are both sealed. Sunfire is a middle ground in sealed subwoofers. NHT and SVS offer modestly priced, super high quality units. Rel and JL Audio offer higher end, even more refine subs. All would be fine choices and budget and room size should dictate your choice.

ssm4ssm4
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Hi all,

So after a slight delay, I went to place my order for the Peachtree Audio Nova 125 integrated amp, and I found that it is no longer available new on Amazon or Crutchfield. Is this model discontinued? Any advice for a similar quality item at a similar price? This will power Monitor Audio Silver 6 speakers which are still available on Crutchfield.

michael green
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Late to this thread, if I had this budget there would be one system on my plate.

"I have $2000 - $2500 to spend. ..receiver / amplifier, speakers, and CD player..."

MGA Mini Mod & Stands
Speaker Tuning Boards
Maggie Mod
Sherwood Mod
Picasso interconnect
MGA System Platform
MGA LTR Blocks
Bare Essence speaker wire
Cable Grounds
RoomTune Tunepak

Under budget and complete system.

Bonus, access to TuneLand to give free setup advice and others using this system to consult with. No guessing, no hvpotheticals, and no audiophile tall tales, just a straight forward audiophile system that will give you the music, and cut out the never ending plug & play game that will in the long run cost you 4 times your budget.

BTW, this is the system the Stereophile members are buying behind the scenes at this budget :)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

xkaapie
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The Monitor Audio Bronze 6's are about $900 on the AudioAdvisor website. Their bass is fabulous, they are warm and not harsh out of the box, they rock!!!!! with all genres of music and I really mean all! from Joe Cocker, to Thomas Tallis, to Rachmaninov, to Pat Metheny, to Al Dimeola, and they sing with Led Zeppelin!! The Broze finish is different to the Silver line, they have vinyl wrap instead of real wood veneer, but they really fill a room with amazing sound
Hope this helps,
Ari

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