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October 6, 2014 - 8:37pm
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Building my first real audio system
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What about the NAD T 757 ? - looking at the owner's manual it says it has AV Presets - that I can tell it to remember a list of settings. Here's what i'm wondering - can I have one Speaker Setup group of settings - including EQ settings and maybe a cutoff frequency for the sub - call it my "Movie" settings and then have an entirely different set of settings - a different EQ setting with a different sub cutoff frequency and call that my "Music" setting and then have yet another EQ setting with no sub at all and call that my "Rock" setting? All I see on the A/V Preset menu they show in the manual is Yes and No for each type of setting - which means it could just be one EQ setting - only one "Speaker Setup" settings that you either include or not include in the preset.
It's just hard to imagine that computers have become so much more powerful in 20 years but it seems to me that audio equipment has gone backwards. I hope I am wrong.
hey
congrats on the speakers
don't know about the AV presets, but I think, because of the center speaker, you still need a receiver instead of stereo amplifier - unless you wanna get overcomplicated and your JVC receiver has an AV bypass function and lets you use an amp for 2.0 (or 2.1) speaker config for the fronts, but imo that will have negative effects on sound balance.
So keeping the above in mind, for your level of speakers you should get fairly similarly priced electronics. I would be looking at Anthem MRX 710 (or the cheaper MRX 510) or the Marantz SR 7009 (which i think also has Dolby Atmos in case you wanna upgrade down the road), or the slightly older Marantz SR 7008 if you want cheaper. People seem to prefer the Anthem receivers though, the Marantz are a bit more music oriented, but talented nevertheless. Try to audition.
Both remember my settings when I switch sources. In fact, they have tons of DSPs that are Music, Movie and Game specific.
Additionally you can set them to Auto so it will select whatever the highest resolution DSP is on the Disc.
Both Marantz and Denon have very good sounding, very musical receivers. Atmos is 11.2 so unless you intend to add speakers in your ceiling and a full 7 channel surround, it is an unnecessary DSP. The Marantz SR7008 and the Denon AVR4520CL are fabulous units at $1600.
The one thing I will say is that since you will not be benefitting from Audyssey since it will do nothing in 2.1 and 3.1 channel audio, you are paying for a ton of features you just don't need in the above units. I might look at the Cambridge Audio Azur 551 or the NAD T758. They are less expensive and are both on the conservative side for power ratings. However, I can't say anything about retaining your DSP and EQ settings as I don't own either unit.
I personally would avoid Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha. You have tons of choice with price ranges and power with the above manufacturers and IMO, Denon, Marantz, Cambridge and NAD all sound much better.
I think what everyone is saying to me in a round about way is: they don't make them like they used to. Basically - if convenience is my highest priority I will be better off to keep what i've got. If sound quality is my highest priority then I need to be prepared to pay a price - to give up the convenience I have now and hope that I can find an amp that is not too loud for home theater or too flat for music if i'm forced to use only one setting for everything.
What is a DSP? I Googled it and couldn't find anything I understand. I've seen modern receivers that other people own - and they have all these fake sound programs that kind of like fake the sound of some theater or like you're underwater or in the Bat Cave or something like that. Is that what everyone is talking about? That is what this generation uses instead of an equalizer? That's what we had back then - an equalizer to tweak the sound - that's what I understand.
Do the DSPs destroy the sound quality of the music? A good EQ will not affect the sound quality of the music.
Well, mostly no and a bit of yes. I said I don't know about the EQ presets, but in theory all new receivers should be able to do basic stuff like saving presets. I just researched the Anthem MRX510, and in Andrew Everard's review he mentions being able to save EQ presets for a ton of inputs. I think auditioning is the best way to go - especially if you can audition in your home. And my bet is that these will have both better functionality and sound then older gear.
One thing of note though: even if, soundwise, people usually rate Anthem receivers higher then Marantz (which are really great anyway and better bang for buck), the Anthems don't have network connectivity, so if streaming audio and video on your home network is useful, these won't do. That caveat aside, Anthems should defo be on your list.
If the MRX 510 is too expensive, you could also look at the Anthem MRX 310, which should be pretty close to the 510, only has 10 watts per channel less and can only do 5.1 instead of 7.1 - and since you're only going for a 3.0 setup, it really should be enough. As for Marantz, you could also consider the Marantz SR6008.
And also, watts are not for loudness, they're about how good they can control your speaker. Even if you don't wanna bring the house down, more (quality) watts are never a bad thing.
They are applied in the Digital Signal processing phase which is why I think they were called that. I am likely using a dated phrase.
There are the fake ones like "Theatre" and "Stadium" which sound weird and then there is Dolby Pro Logic II, TrueHD or DTS MasterHD and a bunch other. Many discs are coded for 5 and 7 channel audio. For instance, Dolby TrueHD is 5.1 channel lossless.
In the case of the fake ones, yes I think it does destroy the sound quality. In the case of the fake ones like "stadium", I think it totally ruins it. In the case of Pro Logic II, it will convert a 2 channel signal to a 5 channel signal. In the case of Dolby Digital or TrueHD, it is coded as five channel audio so you are definitely not ruining the sound, 5 channels is how it is intended to be consumed.
Marantz and Denon both have electronic equalizers that will allow you to tweak your sound. There is an automated equalizer called Audyssey, but it works in 5 and 7 channel setups. It does nothing in 2 channel, and I doubt it does anything in 3 channel. There is a manual setting where you should be able to make adjustments for each input.
I like the idea of auditioning in my home. I didn't know that was an option. I figured i'd have to buy something and then send it back if I cannot figure it out within some amount if time.
It seems that what has happened is that the equalizer has been replaced with the DSP as the standard way to tweak the sound on the fly. If I want to adjust the sound with modern equipment I need to learn to use what is there - and that's all these Audessey and DSP computer programs.
Does anyone know the answer to this: with the Marantz SR5009 for example - i'm reading the User Manual for this unit - it says the Tone Controls have a value for each input source - well that's exactly what i'm talking about just that the unit I have now the tone control is actually a 7-band EQ - but anyway - I could set that to sometjhing that makes sense for TV / Movies - the unit has "Smart Select" functions that remember a small number of the many settings on this unit - one of those is something called MutiQXT with Dynamic Volume - and it says when that is ON the graphic EQ gets turned OFF. So if I set up it up to turn on the EQ by default and then when I switch it to TV or my BluRay I can call up the Smart Setting that turns on the MultiQ thing and that would turn off the EQ? Then the Dynamic Volume thing would likely achieve what i've been doing with an EQ all along anyway - to take the edge off the dynamic range of movies etc since I live in a Condo.
I'm just trying to come up with an easy way to switch the EQ on and off when I go from one source to another without having to go into the setup menu and click like ten buttons just to turn it off or on that's a pain in the neck that I do not have to deal with now.
For NAD receivers - the tone controls do not say anything about being set for each input source - are they? The A/V Presets in the manual - it shows Tone Defeat on or off is what it remembers - that seems stupid - does it remember a specific tone control setting or just that the tone controls are on or off? What i'm asking is - can I set one preset that I call Music to have bass/mid/highs set at 1/0/2 and then another called TV to have them set at -2/+2/0 ???? It sounds like all the preset does is remember the tone control is on or off meaning i'd have to always have music or movies be a flat signal - probably music.
You are spot on. Basically, there is a manual EQ and an electronic, auto calculating Dynamic EQ which is Audyssey. These are set per input.
I don't believe you will need to "call up a smart setting." You have the option to turn Audyssey on and off for each input and if you have it on for your Blu-Ray, when you switch to your Blu-ray, it will be on. When you switch to your TV, if you have it set off it will be off. These settings are sticky per input.
If you want to toggle between Audyssey being on or off fr a single input, you either need to press a button on the front panel of the receiver or your need to enter the menus to make the change via the remote.
The Dynamic EQ optimizes sound so that based on the number of seats, each person watching will get the best possible multi-channel experience from there seat. When you set up Audyssey, you literally move a microphone around the room as test tones are played.
Two implications come from this:
1. I am not 100% certain you can even set up the Dynamic EQ with fewer than 5 speakers. I have never tried it and am not sure it will work. Someone else may have, the Audyssey website might serve as a resource or you might talk to a an advisor at a place like Crutchfield.
2. Optimizing sound means that it will sound best to the average listener. That is a big, full sound that is non-fatiguing. I find that it does soften the treble but it does not necessarily soften the bass. My point is, the Dynamic EQ will not help you if you want to lower the bass so as not to annoy your neighbors, it might have the exact opposite effect.
I know the Marantz/Denon units well since I own a Marantz Pre/Pro and a Denon receiver though I am a bit removed from there most recent units. My equipment is 3 to 4 years old. If you have a specific question I will do my best to try and test if for you assuming it doesn't require me making a permanent change to my normal settings.
One other note, if the manual for the Marantz seems poorly written and difficult to follow, you would not be alone. The manual seems to be the single biggest criticism about most Marantz equipment.
Alternatively, I have no knowledge of NADs menus as I just don't one and haven't spent time with it.