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December 1, 2009 - 12:45pm
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I'd listen to a bunch of loudspeakers within your price range first to see what sounds good to you. The Rotel stuff you mention is in a whole different league than that HK receiver. As well, most B&W speakers are in a different league than those JBLs even though they are well regarded when used with the right electronics. For stereo music listening you should dump the subwoofer and get good full range loudspeakers.
Perhaps give us a price range you are thinking of and we can give you some options to go listen to.
Excellent question. The JBLs are $1,400, so this would definitely be an absolute minimum. Considering I am willing to spend $3,000-$5,000 on components (pre-amps, amps, cd player/transfer) I would think a realistic speaker budget would be $6,000-$10,000. Not that I necessarily want to spend this much, but if that is where the quality sound is found, then that is where I need to be.
I should probably add that I am also looking for a short-term/long-term solution. In the short term I would like to ditch the subwoofer, which means I need full range speakers, which means I need to improve my overall amplification.
I was thinking I might be able to do this by purchasing the HK stereo receiver, and adding two JBL Studio L890s to my listening (as I tested the JBLs versus Sonys last night that I have...JBLs were definitely better, a little bit bright, but the sound was much clearer and hardly offensive). Or maybe a NAD and a pair of Polk RTi A7s. Pieces that are not too absurdly expensive.
Then long-term I would like to invest in some excellent quality speakers that are paired well with a good integrated amp/pre-amp & amp.
-Michael
I would make an appointment with Don Better Audio in Cleveland Heights to listen to the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature II ($2345/pair w/stands) and Quatro (he has them in wood for $10,700/pair, but the "sock" version is available for $7,450) loudspeakers. That store also has DeVore Fidelity, Rega, Sonus Faber and Verity Audio loudspeakers. It would likely be a good place to start, to listen to loudspeakers and loudspeaker matchups with components. A good dealer can offer auditions, advice and service. Which is very important with the investment you are about to make. If you can get to Detroit, Indianapolis or Pittsburgh there are some good dealers there as well.
Great advice, jackfish.
Excellent idea.
I can make it to Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and even Chicago (home town). I am not sure that it is legal for me as an Ohio resident to travel into Michigan...(at least if I listen to OSU fans). So if you have recommendations in the other cities, I would love to hear them.
Do you think it is wise at all for me to purchase a relatively low-budget short term listening solution, or just wait with the sub-par equipment until I can go full-bore? I am guessing it is possible that if I go through a simple audition at Don Better I might find a relatively super lower cost solution that I can add to over time?
Michael
With a budget of $9,000 to $15,000 you can get into some very good stuff. For $1,000 you could get a passable system for the short term until you are ready to make the plunge with your ultimate budget.
Here's some stuff for around $1000 I often suggest for those on a limited budget and unable to do a lot of auditioning.
PSB Image B25 bookshelf loudspeakers for $320/pair.
http://www.stereophile.com/standloud...psb/index.html
dmc-electronics.com
saturdayaudio.com
A pair of PSB SP-25i speaker stands for $80. http://www.saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/PSB_ALPHA.htm Lower left corner of the page.
Harman Kardon HK3490 stereo receiver for $260.
http://hometheaterreview.com/harman-...ereo-receiver/
Marantz CD 5003 CD Player for $276.
http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Marantz-CD5003/
But you have to understand if you want to put any effort into selecting your short-term solution and you can already work with your ultimate budget you might as well work towards that ultimate system. A low cost solution might not lend itself well to "add to over time" as it will likely be an incremental replacement of system components over time instead. That might lead to unsatisfying listening during the interim.
I'd go to Don Better with a definite budget and functionality in mind and see if something he shows you strikes your fancy. If then you can get to other audio stores in other cities you can explore further. You might want to take notes when you audition so you remember and develop what you like and what it is you like about it.
Another thing I should mention is with a budget of $9,000 to $15,000 you should also consider the room you are going to use for the system and set aside some of the budget for acoustic room treatment. Making the room work with or become part of your system can make a big difference in the aural outcome.
Now that we have a better idea of what you want and are willing to spend perhaps others will chime in with speakers and other components you should try to listen to.
Tone Studio
623 E. North Street, Indianapolis, IN 46204,
Call for Appointment: Phone: 317-423-3050 or 317-696-1742
Superior Audio Systems
900 N. Elston Avenue, Chicago, IL 60622, Phone: 312-226-4848
Audio Dimension
31968 Woodward, Royal Oak, MI 48073, Phone: 248-549-7320
Store Hours: Tuesday, Wednesday & Friday 12 to 6pm
Thursday 12 to 9pm, Saturday 11 to 5pm
Spanos Tasso G Audio Consultant
1002 Arlington Ave
Pittsburgh, PA 15203-1409 (412)431-7305
I think that the low cost solution can be "disposable". It is ok with me if I work on the long-term solution as long as I have something palatable for the short-term, even if it will eventually all be replaced.
If it were me doing it again for the first time, I would start with a decent rack and some benchmark cables. For example, a Salamander rack ($300) or maybe a Samson rack from Mapleshade ($1000) and maybe some Kimber Hero interconnects and 8TC speaker cables. Nothing too fancy, but something you can grow into over time.
As for entry level equipment, I bought some of the entry-level Cambridge Audio kit for my office system from Audio Advisor when they had a bundle special 340A integrated amp, 340T tuner, iD10 iPod dock, and S30 stand-mount loudspeakers-- all for around $700. I added the 340C cd player to come in at $1K. The 340A is surprisingly good if you don't want to shake the walls and the 340C is pretty good as well; it will also serve as a good transport for an upgraded dac (Dac Magic, V-Dac, or Benchmark Pre-dac).
You could start with something like that and upgrade one component at a time without being terribly hurt. You might never want to upgrade the tuner for example if you listen infrequently. Next step could be to something like a Benchmark Dac-pre and a separate amplifier or some very nice speakers such as Devore Gibbon 9's which would work with Cambridge integrated until you settled on amplification.
Lots of choices in your price range. Lots of roads to go down. Your first system will likely just allow you to develop your preferences. I am currently assembling my new system for home which I hope to enjoy for some time. The Cambridge is playing stand-in until then.
Also, check out the past several issues of Stereophile for some pretty good buy it once buy it right advice and some equipment suggestions. Seems like Luxman plus Harbeth or Spendor is a safe choice.
Cheers,
PMB
Does the rack make a significant difference? Right now I am using an Ikea Benno TV stand, which, for the moment, I think will work fine. I have thought of replacing it with a dedicated audio rack in the future.
And as far as cables go, I mainly need the speaker cables. I'll see if I can find those 8TC cables, unless there are also other suggestions.
Last week I went ahead and purchased a starter system. Very simple and straightforward I think:
- NAD C372 Stereo Integrated Amplifier
- NAD C545BEE Compact Disc Player (recommended by Andy)
- PSB Image T65 Loudspeakers
One thing I am thinking about it bi-wiring, as the PSBs can handle it. Does this truly improve the sound, or does it introduce other distortions, etc?
Next year I am going to go listening in earnest so that hopefully by the end of 2010, I will be able to replace my entire temporary system.
I am sure there will be more questions coming after the holidays have passed.
Michael
sonically? no. WAF-wise, oh yeah.
again, you don't need any fancy cable.... just get some with good connectors and solid build. run like hell if you see a manufacturer use audiophile-speak "musical flow" "prat" "skin effect" etc etc...
there is no difference in bi-wiring speakers from the same amp..there cannot be(physics and all) Whether you connect one or 50 wires to the speaker from one amp, the same amount of power/signal arrives. The only difference in bi-wiring is an increase in effective wire diameter, and lowering of the AWG sonically? no way, no how.
Bi-Amping, yes..itll make a difference. Bi-wiring? nope.
Thank you, fellow traveler.
I must admit I balked at the price of the 8TCs. What would be a mid-priced acceptable speaker cable, one that is better than that found at the regular retail stores, but not so expensive that the cables start to outprice my amplifier? Any ideas anyone?