You are here

Log in or register to post comments
geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
The credentials war

Let's please try to move beyond credentials, shall we? It's a stupid discussion to try to out credential each other in my opinion. Besides if memory serves it's actually you who doesn't have any credentials, not counting your GED. See the irony? Search the archives for when I revealed by credentials to Ron, you know, right here on Stereophile Forum. Have you given any more thought about where you're going to go for vacation?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
shall we?

From what I have seen Costin, Ron, ChrisS, Catch22, Allen, Toledo and many others here have credentials and are able to share in the music just fine.

Concerning your credentials geoff, you have created your credentials here http://www.bing.com/search?q=geoff+kait+fraud&pc=Z161&form=ZGAIDF&install_date=20111120&iesrc=IE-SearchBox If you have another search engine to display instead let us know.

Why anyone would want to out credential you would seem a little odd to me. I have no idea why anyone would want to be known for the same credentials you have in this hobby.

I also don't see any problem with moving beyond, but you see geoff you don't have a stereo system to work with so when it comes to doing, we have to ask what you base things on. Even so we have given you every courtesy to share your opinion and that's how we ended back onto the subject of your credibility.

It's kinda like this geoff. Listeners ask you what you experience when you do this or that and you have nothing to share cause you haven't had a stereo for over 8 years, and about that stereo you did have you said "never looking back". You point to a list of products, and start to tell stories but they lead to you either saying you weren't serious about the topic, you weren't anything more than a dealer, have no forum after saying you had, and you end up saying "it's all a mystery". You pick on other forums like TuneLand yet say you have never been there. You pick on peoples schooling yet haven't taken a class since the mid 70's.

Why wouldn't someone ask about your credentials, or even why are you here?

Others might want to talk to you about Mu-metal or cork, but it's not like your batting a zero, you haven't even stepped up to the plate in many years, if at all. Sorry but you haven't shown that you have been serious about any part of this hobby except for used portable cassette players that we can pick up by the scores at any goodwill or thrift store. OOPs I stand corrected, you said you weren't even serious about them.

So I guess we're back to credentials unless you can wiki your way out or go buy a cheap stereo somewhere and join the hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
I see humor is not your strong suit

Sarcasm and lying are your strong suits. Yup, better stick to what you're good at.

"Ve haf vays of making you show us your credentials."

 photo photo_24_zps2butntsl.jpg

Have a nice day.

Geoff Kait
Machinadynamica.com
We got your artificial atoms right here

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Hey, Geoffy!

Those who read your posts have noticed a very strong pattern in your responses throughout this forum and everywhere else on the internet. You always accuse others of what others accuse of you...

"Sarcasm and lying are your strong suits..."

Ok, Geoffy, what are you hiding?

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
What a maroon!
ChrisS wrote:

Those who read your posts have noticed a very strong pattern in your responses throughout this forum and everywhere else on the internet. You always accuse others of what others accuse of you...

"Sarcasm and lying are your strong suits..."

Ok, Geoffy, what are you hiding?

Go hump someone else's leg, Zippy. And go to your room, your Mommy wants to use the computer.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Google Search "Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica"...

and you get heaps of scorn and ridicule.

On the other hand, you would make for a great personality study. Please offer yourself to science!

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Scorn and ridicule
ChrisS wrote:

and you get heaps of scorn and ridicule.

On the other hand, you would make for a great personality study. Please offer yourself to science!

They ridiculed Einstein, too. And he was ridiculed by pinheads like you.

Have a nice pinhead day.

Then I saw her face, now I'm a pinhead
Not a trace, of doubt in my mind
I'm in love and I'm a pinhead
I couldn't leave her if I tried
No not if I tried
Not if I tried, no
'Cause I'm a pinhead
Yes I'm a pinhead

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Einstein Turned Out...

...to be brilliant.

You're not.

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
actually readers

Actually, Einstein was ridiculed by pinheads quite a few levels above Geoff Kait for sure. Mr. Kramer wouldn't have even been thought of as to have raised to the status any higher than that days equivalent to internet troll, which is as high as geoff has earned recognition for.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
There is no joy in ToonLand

Well, at least Michael is finally recognizing his status as leader of the pinheads. Now we're getting somewhere. There is no joy in ToonLand, the mighty Michael has struck out. Don't forget to take your Ambien.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
actually....

got some pretty good listening and writing in on TuneLand (that's why I'm still up)

Instead of trolling audio forums you might want to try talking about music sometime.

how old is geoff kait? a question geoff can't answer

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Nothing shaking but the leave on the trees

Gee, what a surprise. Another post with a whole lotta nothing in it from the Leader of ToonLand. Yawnnnnnn! At least you could try to be entertaining.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
TuneLand http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Since geoff kait has been doing mostly internet trolling here, I've been spending most of my time on TuneLand and in the listening rooms.

I'm sure the pace will pickup here a bit when geoff is gone, or starts enjoying the hobby himself.

For now though, thank you for all the visitors on TuneLand, It's been a fun summer!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
TunnelLand, where the streets all end at the edge of town

One only wishes you would spend all of your time over in TunnelLand, you know, what with the lack of anything relevant or even interesting to say. Except Thor snippy, snarky drive by pot shots. You have reduced to a babbling nitwit.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Geoffy's Pattern

Take note of Geoffy's pattern... Read carefully all of Geoffy's exchanges with posters here and other forums around the internet. Whenever posters ask about or take issue with Geoffy, he turns those questions and issues around and accuses the poster of the same. Geoffy often refers to alcohol/ medication use, sexual dysfunction, intellectual deficiencies, inconsistencies with facts and truth, etc.
Whenever he is questioned about his posts, he constantly replies with incoherent jabber, insults, cartoons, and often refers those issues (as above) noted in his posts back to others. Even using the exact same words of other posters. As illustrated above, Geoffy bats 100%.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Officially Bottomed Out

Looks like this thread has officially bottomed out. Thanks to the guy with the tapered pointy head.

The Pinhead on the hill sees the world spinning round.

Geoff Kait
Machina Machina

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
Thanks ChrisS

Thanks Chris

You have put geoff in his place and rightly so.

Not only did geoff fail in his attempt to troll this thread, but he also failed to gain any credibility as in the schumann resonances thread and many of the others.

Practical application will always trump the non doer. In this case not only did geoff not do the applications, but he also showed that he knows little about what goes on with the audio signal and it's surroundings. Geoff ran out of gas because he has no listening room or audio system to do the practical application with.

As for the rest of the listeners feel free to visit TuneLand where we give a total break down of what the signal is doing and what affects it. Your welcome to jump in and share your experiences and the good news is, you won't be trolled by these internet audio trolls, who really don't have much to say about any topic.

May summed it up with her own words.

"Geoff using mockery and I use the method of challenging their replies"

These are the two methods as you can read that May & geoff use to troll this forum and other audio forums. Hopefully they will get to the point to let the threads exist without the trolling but in the meantime I'm glad to see the members calling them out through making the challenges about them and their ideas, to which they have answered "it's all a mystery" to them.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
To mock or not to mock

I'm afraid you actually don't understand May's comment regarding mockery. May was simply pointing out that mockery can be quite a useful tool when responding to someone worthy of being mocked. You know, someone who doesn't get it, someone who is an obsessive compulsive. Someone like you. Follow? If you weren't such a humorless bozo sometimes you wouldn't draw my mockery.

;-)

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
in reality

may said

"Geoff using mockery and I use the method of challenging their replies"

These are your means of trolling audio forums, nothing more nothing less. You just proved it in the post above, and may did it on her last post. Proof is in the typing.

And yes, actually I do understand May's comment. The both of you are here internet trolling audio forums.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Blah, blah and more blah

You apparently are totally ignorant of debate and continue to be a stalker and all around pseudo skeptic without a clue.

Have a nice hair day,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynmica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
just trolls

geoff kait said

"I never said I wasn't a troll. Don't act so surprised. Deal with it."

may belt said

"Geoff using mockery and I use the method of challenging their replies"

Looks like your stalking yourselves to me. Watching the both of you this last month has been like watching two cockroaches getting flushed.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Talk's cheap, pretty boy

Flushed? If anyone is going to get flushed it's you, pretty boy. We've always been here and we'll always be here. You are here only by our graces.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Geoffy's World

No mods ever rescue you when you are being "picked on" on any internet forums, right?

You are used to being bullied, aren't you?

You have developed a very good skill set of antagonistic behaviors as a means of survival, especially since you know you'll never have friends to help you.

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
Back to the OP

Today was my last day playing with the Mu-metal shielding, before Harold gets here. More than likely we will be moving on to other fun stuff.

My opinion for now stays the same as it has been in the past, shielding is a variable tweak. Also all the parts respond to shielding not just transformers.

Another point that I feel is important to make. The products with metal chassis (mainly top covers) change in performance once the metal covers are put back on after the shielding is applied, which tells me that the covers and entire chassis becomes a part of the shielding process once the Mu-metal is applied. This effect is less with foil and mesh but still part of the field effect.

Mu-metal responds differently in all 3 of the setups. Enclosed chassis, open chassis and no chassis gave 3 uniquely different sounds. This was true with amplifiers as well as CDP's. Do I like the sound of the Mu-metal? I have to leave that to each listener, but the way I listen the answer would be, not crazy about the sound, with one excepting. I made a foil/wood mini panel and that was kinda fun to play with, but I doubt many folks are going to want to use this variable tweak as much as I did. Still, each listener has to decide on their own particular goals and taste. I'm here as you know to talk about the variables and not be judge of your own sound.

space vs shielding

The question is brought up about shielding vs moving parts around so as to let the field settle naturally. My answer is, nothing wrong with doing both if you wish. Spacing parts in my book is maybe the biggest tweak out there, next to transfer tuning. Materials like Mu-metal can certainly fit in the equation, but I wouldn't limit the choices to any particular type, size or thickness of Mu-metel. Every treatment I used with and on the Mu-metal the sound changed, which proves mu-metal is vibratory. To prove this further I made a variable shielding cage out of mu-metal, aluminum, zinc, brass and wood and was able to change the sound with the adjustments.

Space is a huge tweak, as well as transfer tuning and the meterials used. Would I call Mu-metal the savior of audio? On it's own, no. Mu-metal is like any other tweak. You can treat it like an instant cure for some flus and have a hit and miss performance, or you can look at Mu-metal as a material that can be tailored to create a certain sound, or even used in a variable way.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Used to being bullied?
ChrisS wrote:

No mods ever rescue you when you are being "picked on" on any internet forums, right?

You are used to being bullied, aren't you?

You have developed a very good skill set of antagonistic behaviors as a means of survival, especially since you know you'll never have friends to help you.

Yes, actually, now that you mention it, I'm used to being bullied. Fortunately for me the bullies usually turn out to be ignoramuses or pinheads. Like yourself. So, no biggie.

Cheerios,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Nya, Nya

Just trying to understand your antagonistic behavior throughout the internet.

And why you go out of your way to be disliked so much.

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Hey Geoffy!

How about trying one of those on-line Sociopath Tests?

Might be fun!!

http://www.playbuzz.com/joycemartin10/can-you-pass-the-sociopath-test

rrstesiak
rrstesiak's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: Mar 22 2015 - 5:38am
EVERYBODY CHILL....

I vote we do another reference together and get this place back on track!

Ron

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
honestly, been chill, the only way to fly :)

I think it's correct to put the trolls in their place, even if it means cutting into our regularly scheduled program, or their trolling game will never end, at the same time I don't know about anyone else but I've been listening up a storm.

I made my next post on the topic here, and felt good about the report and I don't have a problem with making more reports, and if someone wants to jump in that's fine (with hopes that they will be constructive), but I'm also going to continue to state a case against the trolling. I'm not going to have myself, friends or my forum trolled without slapping the pee out of some idiot if I feel like it. Doesn't mean I'm walking around in misery, quite the opposite. After putting up with the trolling for two years I'm glad to see people doing what it takes.

the vote

I think you ought to go ahead and start referencing threads if you wish. Can't go wrong there!

My vote is be who we are and let nature take it's course.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
There is no joy in Mudville

Why is it nobody from TunnelLand can stay on topic? My guess is because they don't know anything about the topic. But take every opportunity to urinate on all threads. My suggestion is consider taking the whole neurotic referencing and tuning thing back to Never Never Land where there is some interest in such things. Frankly, the whole thing is played out. There obviously isn't anything else to say. Time to pack up and go home. And take the pinhead with you.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Reference this, my neurotic little friends

Recent original CD acquisitions. Japanese versions when available. Lol. Dynamic Range? No worries. Note: The guy on fire on the cover of the Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here CD must be Ron. Lol

 photo photo_38_zpsoqfeande.jpg

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica
We got your Future of Audio right here

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
Attacking Ron?

Your such a weird little audio troll geoffy-boy-kramer LOL. Your attacking Ron, when you don't even have a stereo. Now that's Geoff Kait's TunnelLand LOL.

But that's ok little feller, that's a great selection of music there. You can't get dynamics out of these? You got some serious problems LOL. I can even get dynamics out of these on the radio. Are you sure your helping your cause by trolling others? Seems to me your just going deeper into lack of credibility land and dragging your friends peter & may with you.

But I knew when I read Ron say "EVERYBODY CHILL...." that was only going to embolden your trolling. If you can't see he was only seeking to have peer relationships with both you and may, you have no humanity. Ron has been more forgiving of you & may than anyone I have seen here since I have been posting. With maybe the exception of Allen who is always a perfect gentleman too. I can not for the life of me, understand why you would not want to build friendships, instead of create enemies. You have certainly become this industries most in-famous internet audio troll, at least I hope I never run into someones worse.

I'm so sorry for the people who come to this hobby to simply learn, teach, do and share and have to encounter someone like you. That has certainly got to put a dent in their hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Ouch! Very ouch!

So, Ron's supposed to be the moderator? I thought you were, pretty boy.

I get the feeling lately you're even more upset than usual. How's that Ambien working out for ya? Not too good it would appear.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Sun's down, street lights are on...

Time for you to go home now, Geoffy.

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
do you agree?

May & Peter Belt

Do you agree with Geoff Kait's approach to Mu-metal use?

Michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
I take silence as a sign of agreement
michael green wrote:

May & Peter Belt

Do you agree with Geoff Kait's approach to Mu-metal use?

Michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Michael famously said, "Yeah, I've played around with all that stuff."

Apparently you're still confused about mu metal in terms of what it is and what it's used for and how to use it. And you want to be my latex salesman.

"An ordinary man has no means of deliverance." ~ old audiophile expression

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
good to know

Excellent! I was wondering why May tried to explain her way out of agreeing or not agreeing with geoff, so it's good that geoff is confirming that Peter & May agree with geoff on the issue of Mu-metal, and I should say that the high end audio designers use many different kinds of EMF control. I invite listeners to look at the wide range of uses and varied approaches as I have pointed out and perfomed myself.

So geoff says he knows the only & right way to treat transformers, and the audio designers including myself say there are hundreds of approaches dependent upon the desired results.

Geoff, May and Peter vs the rest of the audio community. I would put my bet on the audio community as a collective might perhaps have come up with a few ideas that work LOL.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Keep the laughs coming

Youre so funny. As I said you have no idea what mu metal is, what is does or how it's used. EMF? That's hilarious. Keep the laughs coming. Maybe you can coax your pocket theoretical physics dude to assist you. You win the Laughing Goat Award for the most mock worthy post of the week.

 photo photo_43_zpslaa4ggdf.jpg

"Yeah, we've tried all that stuff." - Michael Greed

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Geoffy, Where's Your Army?

Google search, "Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica".

Geoffy, no one's got your back...

No one.

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
the reputations of May, Peter & geoff

An army of 4 lately from what I can see. May, Peter, geoff and David.

geoff kait said about himself

"I never said I wasn't a troll. Don't act so surprised. Deal with it."

may belt said about the both of them

"Geoff using mockery and I use the method of challenging their replies" and "sparring"

news on may

May also recruited a new member (no not the goat, that's geoff's gal) David to her trolling team. Of course JA called David out for being a troll at the same time May was praising David as a "contributor".

news on geoff

You can always tell when geoff is getting POed LOL. Poor little guy, he tries so hard. Sources say geoff has probably not opened up and looked inside audio components in a few years. Geoff says all the guys who don't use Mu-metal the way he suggest "don't know anything about Mu-metal". He says "May agrees".

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
It is more blessed to mock than to be mocked

It's also more FUN to mock than to be mocked. I never get PO'd. I get even. Lol

This is not my first rodeo, cowpoke.

A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

rrstesiak
rrstesiak's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: Mar 22 2015 - 5:38am
Change of topic

Come one come all over to my new thread in "Digital Sources" discussing hirez music. (Anything over 44.1 will get you admission at the door, tickets are FREE!!!!)

If you're into strictly redbook, that's respectable and there's a long running good thread on that too.

Listen On!

Ron

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
I don't believe it

I see it but I don't believe it. Never saw anyone abandon his own thread before.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
Geoffy's Pattern

You should recognize the routine by now, Geoffy...

You get annoying, you get left behind.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Send in the pinheads

Bite me, you silly old sod.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

ChrisS
ChrisS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 52 min ago
Joined: Mar 6 2006 - 8:42pm
You've Been Chewed Up...

And spat out throughout the internet...

Google search "Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica"

Heaps of mockery, scorn, and ridicule.

rrstesiak
rrstesiak's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: Mar 22 2015 - 5:38am
Mu Metal back on track

All:

I put an earlier reference to a new post of mine seeing as how I think the original mu metal discussion has seemingly run its course. I personally learned a lot about the product from Geoff's article from the two gents in Pittsburgh, but that for me was about the extent of tangible knowledge gained. I think Michael has also been examining the approach and gaining valuable experience as well and I leave it to him if he wishes to further recap his findings.

While I'm certainly not one to shut down a topic, as the OP I feel a responsibility to steer the thread back on course and/or allow others to make any final remarks and gain closure....if listeners think the topic deems more discussion, I certainly won't stand in the way of that.

Respectfully,

Ron

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Poor old sod
ChrisS wrote:

And spat out throughout the internet...

Google search "Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica"

Heaps of mockery, scorn, and ridicule.

Just can't control yourself, can you? Poor silly old sod.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 27 sec ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Mu metal

Ron, why post at all on this thread? I don't get it. Are you trying to be the moderator? As for mu metal we -meaning me and the two dudes from Pittsburgh - already found out that mu metal is very effective in treating the large Transformer already. We don't need someone to second guess our results, specially someone not schooled on how to actually apply mu metal and which mu metal to use. You two guys assume a lot, but there's a lot more to it. Am I the only one here with real experience? I presume so. The positive results with mu metal around transformers suggest strongly that the magnetic field produced by the transformer hurts the sound. Even though you can't see it, the magnetic field is an UNWANTED ARTIFACT. You might think you're avoiding it by relocating the transformer but that is what I think is known as wishful thinking. This further suggests that magnetic fields IN GENERAL are UNWANTED ARTIFACTS, wherever they exist. That is why I now have a product called Animal Magnetism Cable Collars for interconnects and power cords. See if you can guess how they work, you know, just to bring closure for you and Michael on this thread.

I guess the while cork thing thing got lost in the shuffle so I guess we'll have to bring some closure to the cork at some later time. Lol

Cheerios,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We do artificial atoms right

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
in review

I've been gathering amps in my not so spare time to do testing with. I might pick up a few more but I already have enough to do some transformer shielding, isolating and or tuning with. I have my Mu-metal and instrument cork standing by.

One thing to report on already is the removal of some of these transformers outer "shielding" jackets. Some products come with shielding casings around their transformers to begin with. With a little careful prying they can be removed. In all cases so far I have heard the system open up greatly when removed. Also, and this is harder to do, I have chiseled away at the center core of the toroidal transformers, so I can compare hollow and filled.

This is no new exercise for me, and I will pull from past experience as well as real time listening. In all of this I want people to understand how variable your system can be if you have the will to make it so. I won't be playing the better or worst card as much as possible but more the actual change. What you get with your systems and your own personal taste is completely owned by you. I don't have any interest in swaying ones personal listening preferences, just an interest in showing some choices.
_________________________
Before applying any additional shielding I want to explain a simple few tweaks that almost all of you can do. Look at your units and you will find with most, there are cable ties holding the wires in place. Snip these wires and separate the cables. Play for about 3 to 4 hours straight and you will hear the stage start to loosen up and your front to back image should grow some. Heavier products you won't hear as much change, lighter weight (lower mass) ones and the change will be bigger.

Next raise your transformers up from the floor of the chassis. Transformers should never be on the same plane with your other amp parts. In reality all of your grouped parts should be operating on different planes. If I'm not removing my transformers away from my components I will raise them with my LTR Tuning Blocks. You can try other types of risers if you wish but for me I like the tonality of the Low Tone Redwood.

Another tweak for you way before the mu-metal is used. Purchase a good (adjustable) anti-static hair blower or even dryer. Also purchase a good anti-static equipment bush (get a few while your at it). Don't try to convert a paint brush lol. I like using a long fiber round type. You'll need to develope your own method based on where you live and the humidity, but after a few go rounds you will eventually learn how to energize your brush and then use it to remove the static around your parts. I may do a chemical static remove in places of heavy carpet and let the area reset, but after this I find that dryer treatments work fairly well. If you have setup a hair dryer you can build a shelf to set the brush on before using. Mine is a kinda like a wooden grill so the baking can go around the brush.

When I have my brush ready I'll then turn off my components and do my brushing. It's more of a light dusting, just enough to de-fuse the static charge. I get better results with the equipment fairly warm (just turned off). You can do this cold but the charge comes back faster.

So I pickup my transformer, static treat then set my transformer down on the tuning block or blocks.

Why do I do this first before Mu-metal?

Many times I find that the distortion from transformers is because of two things. One they're too close to other parts and materials, and two the charge that builds up around them doesn't have a good way to dis-charge (dissipate). I understand mu-metal shielding for industrial parts, but when we're talking about the audio signal we shouldn't always think kill. When we go to dampen we also, most of the time, are taking away part of the signal along with the energy we're wishing to isolate. The more you reference this the easier it is to hear what comes up missing.

Here's again the way I look at playing audio. Audio is a signal made up of a language and physics. If we can harmonize the energies, allowing for proper dissipation, we are way ahead of the game over trying to kill or choke out part of the signal. Any time we apply any type of filtering there's always a chance that we are sacrificing one part of the audio code for another.

If you have no choice than I recommend going slowly studying the signal as you shield. If you do have a choice there are other methods to use that may allow you to keep more of the recordings you love.
________________________
I've been having fun playing with both the Mu-metal & the Cork, and the other field tweaks I've been doing. It's good to revisit tweaks, even sometimes if they are tweaks we have moved away from somewhat.

I'm doing most of the testing in Room #2 where it's been easier to get to some of the parts, such as the wall outlets as well as transformers and other parts. So far the listening has resulted in "trade-offs" and not so much "improvements". As we have been saying, it's important when testing that one takes their time and doesn't get too caught up in the "flash" moment of change. This is also a case where I am able to test placement of the parts and other materials around the electronics, which is giving more to the signal than just trade-offs.

This tweak depends as much on the mindset of the person doing as it does the actual doing. Here's what I mean. If you take a stock unit all crammed together and built like a battleship and do the Mu-metal I can see why one would like it (maybe). However start to remove the restrains on that same unit and apply the Mu-metal the same way and the results are mixed. There's clearly a difference between the two mindsets, opening up and closing in. When I applied the Mu-metal to the stock unit I could hear into the music more, but it came with a signature that sounded more Hi Fi than raw notes. Good on one hand and a little disturbing on the other. Involved as the music was, I felt like I was in a Hi Fi box, and moving away from the room it felt like the music didn't carry with me. I'll get into this more later.

The cork is more interesting to me (well maybe), because this is the type of tuning I do every day and I was able to compare the cork to many other materials, such as balsa wood, corrugated cardboard, honeycomb wood, natural sea sponge and others. All of these have their own presention and comes down to how far someone wants to go in the area of transfer tuning.

Also a good time for a note. Just because something is called instrument cork, doesn't mean they all sound the same. This thread should be one that opens us up to many different thoughts and not limited to isolation or not, cause this would be a mistake and at best nearsighted. Both with the Mu-metal and the cork there are tons of adjustments to be made and this means neither of these two are isolating, but more interchanging or intermingling with the associated energy surrounding the area.

Another note which I refered to above, is the actual design of each component as far as layout. We need to spend more time looking at not only the parts used but also the layout of the parts and explore the math of electronic part spacing and function. There's a ton to be learned here when these components are taken out of their housings and spread out. And this is where the field and vibratory signatures should be studied by the industry and is not. To take the next step in design or understand why low mass or proper spacing is so important we should take a step back and look at the whole components in a box concept and pick it apart some.
___________________________
I'm on my last stages of the Mu-metal and cork adventure.

Just as a reference, I didn't have the time to dive into the big boys like I was going to (to many coals in the fire), but I had a fairly wide range of units to work with. I ended up working on two Technics (old and new school), Pioneer, Sony, Sherwood, Jolida and Audio Source. I went this route also because I didn't want to move around 50 pounders.

I started all my listening stock and took things to the next level by removing the cable ties and the tops off the units. I untwisted the wires and installed new hard wired power cords Bare Essence Type1 and Essence Ends. All the screws on every unit were tweaked to the tad loose, some screws removed completely. Even with just these minor tune-ups every amp became a different, more expressive animal.
___________________________
Thanks for the update and desire to keep this on topic, and productive Ron. As for myself, points will stay in the empirical listening domain as usual, but when Harold arrives early next month I'll see if he wants to move forward or move on to more important issues. We travel along at a pretty good clip and sometimes have to decide if it's worth our time to redo testing.

My findings were the same as what Ron is speaking of. You don't need to do much to experience the changing. The differences from the listening side might as well have been a gauss meter cause one could hear the change even as the transformers were being moved. I'm very use to listening sessions as it is what I do almost all day, so maybe I'm more sensitive when a change is happening, but with these particular sessions on several amplifiers I once again am not all that crazy about the shielding of the transformers and I might add the influence on other parts. This is certainly not a "one size fits all" tweak, and I think Ron would be in agreement here, if a person is not going to take the time to explore variables, than merely adding Mu-metal, they may not really be able to get their mind and ears around what is happening here.
__________________________
Today was my last day playing with the Mu-metal shielding, before Harold gets here. More than likely we will be moving on to other fun stuff.

My opinion for now stays the same as it has been in the past, shielding is a variable tweak. Also all the parts respond to shielding not just transformers.

Another point that I feel is important to make. The products with metal chassis (mainly top covers) change in performance once the metal covers are put back on after the shielding is applied, which tells me that the covers and entire chassis becomes a part of the shielding process once the Mu-metal is applied. This effect is less with foil and mesh but still part of the field effect.

Mu-metal responds differently in all 3 of the setups. Enclosed chassis, open chassis and no chassis gave 3 uniquely different sounds. This was true with amplifiers as well as CDP's. Do I like the sound of the Mu-metal? I have to leave that to each listener, but the way I listen the answer would be, not crazy about the sound, with one excepting. I made a foil/wood mini panel and that was kinda fun to play with, but I doubt many folks are going to want to use this variable tweak as much as I did. Still, each listener has to decide on their own particular goals and taste. I'm here as you know to talk about the variables and not be judge of your own sound.

space vs shielding

The question is brought up about shielding vs moving parts around so as to let the field settle naturally. My answer is, nothing wrong with doing both if you wish. Spacing parts in my book is maybe the biggest tweak out there, next to transfer tuning. Materials like Mu-metal can certainly fit in the equation, but I wouldn't limit the choices to any particular type, size or thickness of Mu-metel. Every treatment I used with and on the Mu-metal the sound changed, which proves mu-metal is vibratory. To prove this further I made a variable shielding cage out of mu-metal, aluminum, zinc, brass and wood and was able to change the sound with the adjustments.

Space is a huge tweak, as well as transfer tuning and the meterials used. Would I call Mu-metal the savior of audio? On it's own, no. Mu-metal is like any other tweak. You can treat it like an instant cure for some flus and have a hit and miss performance, or you can look at Mu-metal as a material that can be tailored to create a certain sound, or even used in a variable way.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Pages

  • X