I know it's blasphemy to ask but how did the cable sound before you dismembered it?

Could it possibly be a Zobel network I see. Wonderful! 69 cents in parts for a cable that costs several kilobucks. I've seen other Transparent cables dis-assembled with the same underwhelming results. Needless to say, I long ago took Transparent off my may buy someday list.

Ouch! So...that's why those cables always sound so "smooth"! They just have some euphonics built in! Sweet. Yeah- aside from the price, I have moved on a while back. Lower end, but not bottom, Audioquest is pretty nice stuff and a reasonable ratio to overall system pricing.

If this is supposed to be a "gotcha", I don't really see it. It's not like Transparent are hiding anything about their cables. If you actually research the Music Wave, they detail how it's made. It doesn't cost "69 cents" to implement either. Not unless they're paying monkeys to design, produce, glue, weld and hand-solder the parts for the network with Chiquita bananas. Even then, the bananas alone cost more than 69 cents. These type of "gotcha" arguments suggest that Transparent's entire sound rests on the minimal parts that make up the network filter. I don't see it that way. I believe most of what you're paying for in a good cable like this is the cable. It's silly to try to reverse engineer everything, and cost everything according to the current price list for the Chinese wholesaler that supplies Radio Shack. In the real world, it doesn't work that way. Most of what you are paying for in such a cable is well beyond base parts that make it up; R&D, distribution, labour, quality control, marketing, etc. etc. etc. That is -no- different for -most- audio products.

I would expect audiophiles to judge these products on sound and the competition, not what they think the tabulation of the parts list would be. And if someone thinks they can make a cable that's every bit as high in quality and sounds exactly like it for $1.69, what's stopping them? They'll put Transparent Audio out of business. Why haven't they done so?

This is Transparent being "transparent" about their network filter, similar to what has been "exposed" in your post:

DESIGN
The Transparent network is a special filter circuit hand-built into the cable and enclosed in a protective pod.
Transparent networks optimize the cable for audio frequencies thereby preserving all the richness and foundation of natural music tonal balance. (Download large frequency chart in PDF format)
The Network fights noise that destroys low level information and the signal's purity.
Network's shape and damping materials reject resonance.
The network contains Individually selected passive components, matched for uniform response, and positioned and soldered by hand.
Network calibration for each cable length and type insures uniform performance.
Every design is carefully calibrated according to Transparent's listening criteria as observed with long-term listening in Transparent's music and film studios.
More about Transparent Networks.
More about Transparent Audio Cable Design.

I may have underestimated the cost of the Zobel network in that cable. How about $25.00 worth of parts, if the resistor is a Vishay .1% and the cap is a "uber" expensive Mundorf.

My original estimation of $0.69 was for the resistor and capacitor. The quality of the cable and connectors was not in question.
I'm not one of those who think all wire is the the same. All of my interconnects are Kimber Silver Streak. My speaker cables are Kimber Monocle XL.

I know people that own, use and are very enthusiastic about Transparent Cables. I was making a joke about the "large box" containing a cheap Zobel network that the manufacturer makes all kinds of claims about.

Lighten up Froggie. I'm not JJ or that "Whiner" fellow. "Mr Whiner's" last post directed to me said he was putting me on ignore. If he wasn't ignoring me he would have loved my little funny.

I bought their latest interconnect, the $3-400 one, and found it had an effect on the systems sound stage when compared to the older cable I replaced. I liked the end result and do not find this any more egregious than my diatribe about a $1600 preamp which was an almost empty box.

No, I wasn't confusing you with jj or Whiner, or any of those willfully ignorant, irrational, pseudoscientific anti-high end reactionaries that come here to do battle with the audiophiles on these forums. (BTW, between you and me: Whiner never puts anyone on "ignore". If he goes out of his way to say he will, then it's just a face-saving posturing bluff he declares to "the audience"; as an excuse to avoid having to confront and respond to legitimate criticism someone makes of his (often false and hypocritical) statements or behaviour. Take it as a sign that you have won too many arguments with him, and he's raising the white flag. So he'll say he's put you on ignore, but if you ever happen to say anything that he feels is a threat to his "reputation", the "ignore" function will "automagically" "unignore" itself, and he'll somehow be able to see your posts again, and respond to them anyway (even if the response is usually an indirect one about you to one of his DBT clan members). Needless to say, he declared ignoring me two years ago. I never noticed, because his "ignore function" kept mysteriously breaking every time I said something he couldn't avoid commenting on. )

Re: The Transparents. In my mind, I wasn't really speaking to you directly, or even to NC with this, but to critics in general, who have said similar things in the past about these kind of cables. I can't tell you how many times in the past I have seen this same attack on high end cables by anti-audiophile critics, including the "exposure" of Transparent's cables by hacking of the plastic box. If this makes people who legitimately purchased and own the cables go "Oh man, have I ever been duped. I can't believe that's all that's inside the box!", then they should not be buying these things in the first place. For me, it is and always has been about the sound, not the price. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they overpriced? Possibly, but it's all relative. Even suggesting the implementation of the network filter costs $25, is only going to be speculation, not fact. (It'd be nice to have a rep for Transparent here who may be able to detail exactly what exactly goes into the cost of their cables, apart from profit for various agencies). My point is, if someone can produce and market cables that sound exactly the same, not worse in any way, for far far less, more power to them. So far, no one has. I wish the Cat5 DIY's I once made (speaker and IC versions) really were the giant kilobuck killers they are thought to be by those in the DIY community. But they're not. They're not made for music and they sound like they're not made for music. The Transparents OTOH, sound like they are. I've never owned Transparent cables, but judging by the reviews on Audio Review from people who have purchased and own the Music Wave (with price tags ranging from $300 to $800), they seem to be quite happy with the sound, and not easy to beat.

I do think the casing over the "network filter" is a bit much to "protect it" (hot glue and heat shrink tubing isn't enough? are people dancing on their speaker cables??). Even calling it a "pod" or just two electronic parts a "network filter" is arguably, a bit much. And I could do without the damn boxes these things often come in (why do you need to pay for a fancy wooden box that will never see any use once you take the cables out of it??). I have no doubt they could bring down the cost of their cables and still make good profit. That doesn't mean they're a "rip off" as such posts attacking high end cables are often intended to imply. Rip-off is in the eye of the beholder. If someone bought similar cables and couldn't test them properly or return them, then I could understand "rip-off"....

The AP's appear to be very well constructed and I'd not be surprised if they trounce the MusicWave's. But as far as cost is concerned, that's the only meaningful analysis, isn't it. Judging by the fact that this model is no longer on Transparent's website, that alone means they might not hold up so well in cost terms, against the current crop of competition.

C'mon Froggie. I know what a resistor and a capacitor cost. I'm also very familiar with Zobel networks because the speaker cables I made from CAT-5 (full bore 27 twisted pairs)were causing high frequency oscillation with some of the amps I had on hand. The cables have a high capacitive reactance. The networks cured the oscillation problem.
You might want to give them a try on your CAT-5 cables. It may significantly improve their sound.
Please understand, no put down of Transparent or their wires and cables was intended. They are very well constructed, look very good, use premium connectors and (to my ears) sound very good.
As someone who builds some of his own gear and usually modifies what I buy I have some knowledge of what premium parts cost. That's why I specifically said Vishay resistors and Mundorf capacitors. They are close to some of the priciest parts available. The parts in the picture aren't even close to Vishay or Mundorf in quality or price.
I have no problem with high or even higher priced cables. Do you have any idea what 20 feet times 2 of Silver Streak terminated with top of the line WBT's cost. I do think Transparent's products are overpriced. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Quote:

Analysis Plus is king here

They're actually right here in quaint little Flushing, Michigan, on the second floor of a building on Main Street.

I wish I could afford their products; the design seems to be very unique and scientific, which can't be said of much of the competition.

(to the op)

That's a classic, cable as covert tone control.

Right up there with contact corrosion being scraped off during cable removal and replacement.

Quote:
I'm not JJ

You appear to think the same as jj in this case.

My own further position is that if we want to do this kind of thing, let's do it under our own control, to our own ends. It all ends in preference.

I'm not sure we do j_j. A Zobel network is used to make the impedance a speaker presents to an amplifier appear as a steady resistance. I hardly think this qualifies as a tone control. There are more complicated Zobel networks that act as filters ie: tone controls. The ones made from a resistor and a capacitor are not filters.
However, if you are going to add the simple 2 component ones to speaker cables the values of the components should be tailored to a given speaker.

I must add, the systems I've heard that use Transparent interconnects and speaker cables sound damn good. They're right up there with the best I've ever heard.

My real argument was and is that, IMO Transparent Cables are way over priced.

While writing this I did some mental calculations and realized, with the proper values you could use a simple Zobel as a filter. I guess I never thought of this as the only time I've ever needed them in audio was for the purpose I mentioned in an earlier post.

I thought about editing this post to get rid of the inconsistencies. I decided not to, as I have nothing to hide and no axe to grind.
j_j, I guess we are closer on this issue than I originally thought.

I own a basic set of their cables and, compared to the empty boxs that are some high end components, or any item that sells for 6 digits....they are a bargain

But is sounds better than what it replaced, much better..That is all I ask of a tweak.

I didn't say the cables didn't sound good. I said they are way overpriced. I'm not cheap or pushing cheap cables. Nor am I saying all cables sound the same.
My own Kimber Silver Streak cables are relatively expensive. However, Silver Streak uses silver wire for one of the conductors. They don't have Zobel networks although I could add them. I think they sound better than the Transparent cables I've heard. I also think they are a better buy.

Quote:
I didn't say the cables didn't sound good. I said they are way overpriced. I'm not cheap or pushing cheap cables. Nor am I saying all cables sound the same.
My own Kimber Silver Streak cables are relatively expensive. However, Silver Streak uses silver wire for one of the conductors. They don't have Zobel networks although I could add them. I think they sound better than the Transparent cables I've heard. I also think they are a better buy.

For God's sake, its nearly ALL overpriced! You have a company cramming a few hundred in parts into a similarly priced case and charging thousands, and often having reviewers say what a great deal it is...

When the defense dept bought toilet seats for aircraft for a few hundred each, we had months of political hysteria (with no one noting that the identical toilet seat on commercial airliners were priced within 5% of the cost to the pentagon). I would bet many on this forum were outraged at the price but would not think for 30 seconds about paying $10K for $1K worth of parts and a lot of marketing.

It is the identical practice but one is US doing it and the other some dolts in government.

I buy what I can afford and I try not to buy what does not change MY system for the better. If that takes $300 for a cable, fine. My madness is counted in the hundreds of dollars...we have folk on here who laugh at folk spending so much for a cable but think nothing of buying a $5K record needle or a box full of air for many times that if someone tells them it is worth the money.

It should also be noted that THOSE Transparent cables are at least two generations old, perhaps three.

. . . and if the "prominent mastering engineer" is BOB LUDWIG it's OK to use his name. He's quite open about his use of Transparent products