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I made a copy of Mark Knopfler's "Kill to get crimson", a CD I know well, and with a great sound quality.

Into the freezer it went (-18

Often burned copies of a pressed CD sound better. A burned CD is physically different than a pressed CD.

Geoff's idea to make two burned copies and freezing just one is excellent.

CDs ripped at full res on my computer sound better than those played on my Denon universal player. I always thought it was a jitter issue.

With respect to the sound quality changes that are possible from a burnt disc vs. the original I actually did quite a bit of investigation on the topic a while back.

http://audioexplorer.blogspot.com/2006/06/perfect-sound.html

I wouldn't be surprised, as when I make copies of a CD, the copies sound different to each other.

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After having listened and listened again, I have two things to say:

1) I hear no difference whatsoever from the original to the copy

2) I hear no difference from a frozen to an unfrozen CD, copy or original. Tried with identical copies (sounded identical) and with CD's I know well.

Well, either there's something wrong with you or your system is not revealing enough to appreciate the difference.

Actually, you may not have done it right.

What brand of freezer do you use and what is the temperature setting?

That tweak works best with 'farenheit freezers' and not 'centigrade freezers.'

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After having listened and listened again, I have two things to say:

1) I hear no difference whatsoever from the original to the copy

2) I hear no difference from a frozen to an unfrozen CD, copy or original. Tried with identical copies (sounded identical) and with CD's I know well.

In your OP you reported the copy that was treated sounded inferior to the original: "Now I just played it and the original disc by turns, and to my surprise the original redbook sounded far more crisp, and with much more air to the voice of MK. Small strokes on the hi-hat were easier distinguished too, like the attacks on the guitar strings."

Now you are saying that you hear no difference between the original and the copy, frozen or unfrozen.

Uh, see the problem I'm having?

Does this mean he can't get his money back?

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I should have said: I hear no difference whatsoever whether with the original or the copy when frozen.

Oh, well, these things happen.

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It's one of the downsides of having English as one's second lingo. You never get good enough to be of any real use in a forum like this.

I thought your English was quite good, I was actually commenting on your report that you were unable to hear any differences: "These things happen."

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I hear no difference from a frozen to an unfrozen CD, copy or original. Tried with identical copies (sounded identical) and with CD's I know well.

I know that some have said that a domestic freezer is good enough, but I always understood that you need a true cryogenic treatment for CDs: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/822/ .

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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I hear no difference from a frozen to an unfrozen CD, copy or original. Tried with identical copies (sounded identical) and with CD's I know well.

I know that some have said that a domestic freezer is good enough, but I always understood that you need a true cryogenic treatment for CDs: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/822/ .

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

More grist for the mill...

Soundstage Review of Freezing CDs in the Home Freezer

Positive Feedback Review of Freezing CDs

The Soundstage review....what really happened:

It wasn't the freezing...

Quote the review: "I hurriedly wrapped the discs in the towel and then placed the whole package on the top rack of the refrigerator, right beside the milk and orange juice....

It was the orange juice and its constituent parts, along with the properties of dairy that created a morphic resonance effect and improved the sound.

Poor Mr. Weaver also leaps back and forth between examples of actual cryogenic treatment and creates a verbal congruency between actual cryogenic effects and placing a CD in a home refrigerator unit.

The two differ by approximately 300 degrees Farenheit.

Nope, it's gotta be the milk/citrus/polycarbonate field he serendipitously created.

If you check for what others have reported, you'll find physical approximation to dairy products and/or citrus occurred 100% of the time.

100%!

Now, we should really be talking about which brands of OJ and milk make for the biggest benefit.

Heck, we also need to consider the relative contributions if ice cubes (water), eggs, vegetables, and whatever else is in the fridge and freezer at the time. And not just that unit, others that are in the house at same time...perhaps soda, too....think about all the phosphoric acid and its potential efefcts.

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...and don't forget the "X26X" note or whatever...

Hark, the plaintive cry of the Red-crested Northern Troll.

Oh dearie me, John A. Referring again to the "cryogenic freezing process" in the same breath as "audio".

Surely that will have Buddha in a "tizzy" again, like last time ?

Earlier reply from Buddha to me :-

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"Can you quit it with the "cryogenically frozen" stuff?"

Regards,
May Belt.
P.W.B. Electronics.

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"I know that some have said that a domestic freezer is good enough, but I always understood that you need a true cryogenic treatment for CDs: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/822/ ."

I have repeatedly said that I believe that Robert Harley's "The Cryogenic Compact Disc" article in Stereophile October 1990 is one of the most significant articles in the history of Hi Fi.

Especially his paragraph in the middle :-

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"In addition to CDs and LPs, the process has been used on Laser-Vision-format video discs, speaker cables, interconnects, integrated circuits and musical instrument strings"

And then his last two paragraphs !!

So, Buddha. Could we know of your experiences from using "audio things" where the "cryogenic method" has been applied ?

Be as flippant as you wish, Buddha, about experimenting by using a domestic deep freezer but now let's hear from YOU (someone who obviously prides himself as being "knowledgeable on audio matters") on your experience of the CRYOGENIC freezing method !!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Buddha is someone who obviously prides himself as being "knowledgeable on audio matters"

May, to be fair, Buddha obviously has fun with pretending to be knowledgeable on audio matters. To consider anything he says more than tongue in cheek would be stretching things. He may be disingenuous, snide and irritating, and at times humorous, but certainly not one to take too seriously.

Tip to Buddha: Perhaps you should change NFS to NFR (Not For Real).

May, I don't a rat's butt what you put in the fridge; it's your misappropriation of terms.

I asked you the cease with the "cryogenic treatment" crap purely because what you promotoe is not cryogenic!

Learn what the damn word means, if you can pull yourself out of the bullshit mode for a moment.

If you need help with Google, I can get you some links on what the word actually means.

This is yet one more dumb ass way you try to gain credibility - find a real term and glom onto it and try to associate your own brand of hockum with an actual process.

Have you ever (ever!) come up with one of your schemes and not stolen vocabulary from legitimate use?

"Electret Creme" on the coffee table, etc....

Claiming credibility via word association is pitiful. Again, cultism behavior.

___________________

I have hands on experience with actual cryogenic materials, and if you hung out doing anything other than trying to insert self-promotion in the Hi Fi world, you might recall we've had this discussion before.

To recap: My take is that actual cryogenic treatment is something real - not your twaddle with the Frigidaire - but one has to be very careful to treat items made up of multiple parts by treatig individual parts and then assembling afterward.

If one tries to treat already assembled pieces, there are almost invariably new strains that one places on the object being treated that can have an effect at odds with one's desired goal.

Example: cryogenically treating and entire cartridge that is already assembled would alter the physical relationships between various parts made of various materials and may damage other parts, but treating the wire used for winding the coil ahead of time may be something desriable.

Perhaps treating the cartridge body before hand could yield a beneficial result, but likely not once the pieces are already assembled.

Now, get back to searching for legitimate terms to bastardize in your pursuit of worshippers.

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Buddha is someone who obviously prides himself as being "knowledgeable on audio matters"

May, to be fair, Buddha obviously has fun with pretending to be knowledgeable on audio matters. To consider anything he says more than tongue in cheek would be stretching things. He may be disingenuous, snide and irritating, and at times humorous, but certainly not one to take too seriously.

Tip to Buddha: Perhaps you should change NFS to NFR (Not For Real).

Sorry, "Not For real" is already registered to some Bozo in Falls Church, Virginia.

You guys have your choreography working this weekend.

Lost of time on the phone together, or morphic resonance?

May, you haven't answered about the effect of what foods have been in the fridge when you play with CD's.

I think your missing the true connection.

Have you tried it with frozen juice concentrate and ice cream in the freezer?

If not, why not?

Too closed minded?

The dairy/citrus connection is well known - Cremesicles, Orange Julius....you've closed your mind to some important tweaks.

Hell, plain orange or lime juice can cook fish. Mmmmm, ceviche.

If you haven't tried low temperature CD cooking with citrus, you are obviously not thinking. Best of both worlds!

Out here in the winter, you could just keep your CD's in the car and 'treat' them.

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Buddha is someone who obviously prides himself as being "knowledgeable on audio matters"

May, to be fair, Buddha obviously has fun with pretending to be knowledgeable on audio matters. To consider anything he says more than tongue in cheek would be stretching things. He may be disingenuous, snide and irritating, and at times humorous, but certainly not one to take too seriously.

Tip to Buddha: Perhaps you should change NFS to NFR (Not For Real).

Sorry, "Not For real" is already registered to some Bozo in Falls Church, Virginia.

You guys have your choreography working this weekend.

Lost of time on the phone together, or morphic resonance?

Always fun to watch you get all wound up...Geez, you'd think it was Invasion of the Body Snatchers or something around here.

This could be the mock subtitling of Downfall that appears on You Tube
CHeers
Orb

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"I asked you the cease with the "cryogenic treatment" crap purely because what you promotoe is not cryogenic!

Learn what the damn word means, if you can pull yourself out of the bullshit mode for a moment.

If you need help with Google, I can get you some links on what the word actually means.
This is yet one more dumb ass way you try to gain credibility - find a real term and glom onto it and try to associate your own brand of hockum with an actual process."

I know EXACTLY what the term cryogenic means. I have NEVER, EVER described our own suggested freezing techniques as "cryogenic" - I have ALWAYS described them as "a freezing technique using a domestic deep freezer" - which is what they are !!!

I have asked you before - DON'T put words into my mouth which have never been there !!!

I have, however, defended the actual Cryogenic technique when it has been attacked and ridiculed !!! And that is why I regard Robert Harley's article as one of the most significant in the history of audio !! And have said so, constantly !!

And, in addition, I still don't understand why that technique should still be so controversial 20 years after Harley's article !!

Further quote from Robert Harley's article :-

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" From my experience with the Stereophile Test CD, however, I am convinced that some unexplained phenomena are occurring in frozen and painted Cds."

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"Have you ever (ever!) come up with one of your schemes and not stolen vocabulary from legitimate use?

"Electret Creme" on the coffee table, etc....

Claiming credibility via word association is pitiful. Again, cultism behavior."

"Electret Cream" is EXACTLY that - It has been permanently polarised !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, Buddha, if you have never made Permanent Polarised (Electret) products, you would not know HOW to permanently polarise anything, would you !! Nothing to do with Word Association !!!!!! Nothing to do with "Claiming credibility" by using the word Electret. Nothing to do with "stealing from a vocabulary". It is ACTUAL - a fact !!!!! THAT is why I know what I am talking about !!!

Nor do I need a lecture on the actual cryogenic techniques !!!!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Nor do I need a lecture on the actual cryogenic techniques !!!!

May, you get the two confused so readily, perhaps now you'll get it straight.

I've been asking around. Every audiophile I've contacted has at one time or another kept citrus or dairy in their fridge and/or freezer.

People, we are through the looking glass.

If any of you are out there who have heard the frozen CD trick work, stop for a moment and ask yourself, "Could it be the citrus/dairy?"

If you think not, then prove it wrong!

(Welcome to Circular Sheldrake Land.)

Even if your unit has never held citrus/dairy, others have, and by virtue of morphic resonance then all domestic freezers have learned to pass on the morphic resonance state of having held dairy/citrus.

In fact, as we converse, your unfozen CD's are learning how to behave in a frozen manner by virtue of the morphic resonance of the CD's that have been frozen, rendering moot the need to persist in freezing them!

Keld.

You heard no difference probably because your CD learned from the morphic resonance of the ones May has frozen in Britain and it already sounded "better."

You can pay her later.

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Even if your unit has never held citrus/dairy, others have, and by virtue of morphic resonance then all domestic freezers have learned to pass on the morphic resonance state of having held dairy/citrus.

In fact, as we converse, your unfozen CD's are learning how to behave in a frozen manner by virtue of the morphic resonance of the CD's that have been frozen, rendering moot the need to persist in freezing them!

I hope this is a quick process! I can't wait to try my CDs when I get home.

This is the only fridge tweak I've found to make things sound different