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michael green
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demagnetizing

Ok, ready for another variable?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagnetizing_field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

Anytime you talk about anything electrical, magnetic, physics fields, forces, poles you are going to find variable tuning. What makes this world work (balanced) is the constant "tuning" that takes place as a continuum. Pendulum, action/reaction, time, space, motion, exchange, flow are all parts of a balancing (tuning) system that keeps billions of billions of variables in check and working. This is physics and this is how we get from this moment to the next. Physics is not a snap shot, it's not even a motion picture. Physics is an interactive hologram of on-going perpetuation. Energy continues or transforms. It always was, is and will be.

There are systems in place that exist because of the need for exchange. These systems are called forces, and none of them are dead without motion. Even a standing wave is traveling when you pull back enough to see the world spin. Science does what it can to create theoretical snap shots for us to slow things down enough to study, but they are not practical application. The only way to turn theory into proof, is by doing, and doing with repetition. To this end, is why science is made of sums and averages.

Is there a defined zero in demagnetizing? Science says not really, but more of one of my favorite terms a "variable" degree of fair exchange.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Magnetism

I suspect you're probably using the term Variable A little bit too loosely. Of course the magnetic field can vary from place to place but only because the source of the magnetism is DIFFERENT. In reality, you know, the real reality, the intensity of the magnetic field in Gauss is CONSTANT for a given source of the magnetic field, such as a magnet. Even the Earths magnetic field is most likely very close to a CONSTANT, although I wouldn't be terribly surprised is there were some fluctuations due to the fact the Earth isn't perfectly spherical and not completely homogeneous. I know a little bit about magnetism, I even developed a magnetic navigation system once upon a time, perhaps you were still wearing bell bottoms and using a curling iron.

Excellent try, though. Whatever you're selling, I ain't buying. This is what always happens. You get some folks are wrapped up in their belief system, and next thing ya know, someone contradicts them and boom - Backfire Effect. The belief system gets even stronger. It's very difficult to get through the membrane that's been beefed up by the Backfire Effect.

Now, if you were to say Entropy is variable, i.e., changing, not constant that's a different story. I'm all aboard the Entropy train.

Cheers

Geoff Kait
Machinadynamica.com

michael green
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Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
demo fun

Sorry I missed your rant Geoff. Once again while you were talking about "what can't" I was out "doing" what can for a group of audiophile engineers today. A lot of fun.

I was recognized in a local high end shop and the questions began. As the eyes rolled, I said "if you have time I'll demo on your system for you". I believe the jaws still might be on the floor. "this gives new meaning to this hobby" the one younger guy said. By the time I was done there was maybe 8 guys, 1 girlfriend and two wives walking away with a totally different view of this hobby. I was invited to speak at two audiophile clubs and one vinyl shop as a result.

So, as I keep saying Geoff "thank you for promoting me".

I think what shocked them so much was the simplicity. There was another store owner there and he kept asking how I came up with this shaking his head.

It appears we may have a busy 2016 CES :)

BTW, any of you going to AXPONA, Harold will be hanging around "The Needle Doctor" room# 438. You can sign up for our July 4th Get Tuned! Give-A-Way. Stereophile will be at the Marketplace.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Just as I expected

Surprise, surprise. More self serving jibber jabber. I'm a little disappointed, what, no Sermon on the Mount? Good luck with your quest for mediocrity. You can't even stay on the topic YOU started.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

An ordinary man a has no Means of deliverance. ~ Old audiophile expression.

michael green
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Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
topic

Moving from theory to practical application "is" the topic. For some maybe the topic is talking, for the rest of the hobby though, puting into practice audio is far more meaningful. As we do put things into practice we end up comparing results and methods. This leads to the understanding why things sound different from system to system, place to place. Once you start to get a grip on why the differences are taking place you are a step closer to discovering that you can be a part of the variables.

Audio is not about this or that, but more the degrees of any given tuning. As you look into the energies that influence and makeup the audio signal you find many variables. These variables are not something that you walk over to and turn on or off like flicking a light switch.

Take each one of these topics that have to do with audio and you are going to discover variables. This is the next generation to high end audio. Again start thinking variable. When you make a change in the system and listen to it the sound went from one place to another. We all have experienced this with either changing out components, or tweaks. This is proof that the audio pathway is variable. If it wasn't variable you would get the same sound everytime you make a change. Simple enough right? You could play with your system forever and come up with different sounds. Go ahead "do" it. Make some change in your system and listen to the sound change. At work are all the "various" energies, and as one changes the others do as well. This is the fun part about physics and it's also the fun part about audio. You can make your system so tied down to one fixed sound that the music will start to take on the character of the sound of the components, or you can voice your system to remove some of the components sound. The range that you have in tuning your system is as big as you wish it to be. The fields within and around your components are hugely responsible for the sound you hear. Playing with these fields is like a hobby inside of the audiophile hobby. On a spinning planet that is a continuum of creation (the energy never stops) you don't really stop and start fields. You can make them transform into another type, and you can vary their value, but you are not going to out do what physics is doing. In other words, the Earth is too big to tangle with, and even though we think we are in control of the Earth's performance we need to realize that the energies of the Earth are there to always be a part of the Earth's balancing system. This is the whole reason for the fundamental forces and the "fair exchange" of the energies.

The key to all of this in simple terms is always being aware that you live in and on a generator. It's not going to stop and it's not going get stuck. The energies on this planet "live to be in balance". How does it do this? The balance and check system of the Earth is controlled by a pattern that developes whenever you spin something. If you take an object and begin spinning it, it will develope a fundamental and a support system called "harmonics". The harmonics is what keeps the fundamental in balance, and is also the part of the object (using the term object as a general term) that intermingles with it's environment and companions.

A pretty cool system really, and one that allows all the Earth's ingredients to get along.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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If thine eye offend thee pluck it out

I'm afraid all that new age type prose doesn't actually mesh with reality. In the real reality - not the make believe, everything is wonderful and all the Earth's ingredients get along reality - we already know the following physical realities.

1. The magnetic field generated by large transformers poisons the surrounding electronic components, distorting the sound. I do not tolerate distortion well. As we saw when the two dudes from Pittsburgh performed the mu metal (magnetic field absorber) experiment last year the sound improves when the magnetic field is reduced. Even the relatively innocuous magnetic field given off by the humble CD hurts the sound and demagnetizing the CD restores that element of the sound. Same for interconnects and connectors, anything even remotely magnetic. The related magnetic field issue is the one for ALL WIRES AND CABLES, the magnetic field that is induced by current flowing through the wire hurts the sound. This physical reality prompted my product, Animal Magnetism cable wraps that absorb the induced magnetic fields, producing better sound.

2. The transformers produce considerable vibration that affects the electronic components inside the component. The sound is improved by damping the transformer AND isolating the printed circuit boards and taking other measures as necessary to reduce vibration inside the component.

3. The house AC power is unpredictable and can be somewhat unstable voltage wise and can carry radio frequency interference into the component via the power cord. If one wishes to stay on house power (I don't) then rigorous methods must be employed to minimize the sonic damage produced by House AC.

4. The Earth's crust motion (no, not the Schumann resonance, silly) produces ELF mechanical vibration circa just above 0 Hertz to 10 Hertz and higher. This microseismic vibration, while relatively low in amplitude usually, is audible, I'm afraid. You can sweep it under the carpet at your own peril. Ditto the ELF vibration produced by wind, subways, tidal action on the shore, buses, footfall. To reduce the seismic type vibration elaborate measures must be employed. The old bicycle inner tube actually doesn't cut it. You need to down, down to the ground. This is why the science program LIGO employs such an array of complex vibration isoaltion solutions.

5. The issue of DIRECTIONALITY of wire can be easily illustrated by simply reversing the direction of a single fuse, any fuse, and hearing the difference in sound. Why the Tuning Nation doesn't recognize wire directionality is beyond me especially in light of how freaking big the whole wire directionality problem actually is, you know, what with the transformer wire, internal component wiring, the wire in capacitors and resistors, speaker internal wiring, not to mention all speaker wire, power cord wire, even connectors are directional. Hel-loo!

6. All semiconductor chips produce prodigious amounts of RF and should be covered with some sort of RFI absorber such as 3M

7. I would be remiss if I didn't mention Information Fields, which are flying around as I type and DISTORTING THE SOUND unless countermeasures are employed. This is perhaps the biggest unexplored area in high end audio. The great unmentionable. Lol

So, no, the Earth's ingredients are not getting along. If one doesn't subscribe to these seven simple tenants he is living in a fool's paradise. Now you know why audiophiles struggle and toil, sometimes for 40 years, but don't escape all the distortion produced by the very system that produces the sound. Hel-loo!

Ta ta, for now,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
"tune nation" I like that :)

Hey folks, geoff has bumped us up from a secluded little town to "Tune Nation" impressive :)

geoff says

"So, no, the Earth's ingredients are not getting along."

mg says

The Earth is a great example of how the fundamental forces work in harmony "to get along". Notice how each one of the 7 he mentions are a part of a vibratory system. When as he says "ingredients are not getting along" we are out of tune, and when in-tune the balance increase the values of all energy sources, including how we feel and what we hear.

good vibes bros! the difference between living in a box, and seeing the world

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

michael green
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Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
variable

Things on the forum are becoming fun for me, thanks to you the people participating. We've been spending time talking with two camps mainly. The first camp are those you say "audio is a fixed form" and one saying "audio is based on variables". My camp (the variable one) is about giving a wide range of tuning options so the end user as well as the recording engineer can come to a place of meeting when it comes to performance. The other camp says, if you plug and play finding that one absolute one size fits all tweak or set of fixed tweaks all your music will rise to the occasion.

From our point of view when people start saying must haves it comes off as more of a sales pitch rather than caring about being accurate. Because we see audio as a variable we know that the recorded code (each recorded code) is different from each other. With this in mind we feel the listener should be able to make variable choices at their desire. So with this the "fixed" camp comes to us saying "there are fixed tweaks you are sweeping under the rug" to which we say show us what tweaks are beyond the teaching of the fundamental forces of nature.

One that was brought up was demagnetizing. They are saying demagnetizing is a non-variable tweak. Our most simple answer to this is, then why do demagnetizing companies offer " we offer four styles of DC power supplies — fixed, reversing, variable, and variable/reversing".

The audiophile world is close, but there are a few more steps to take, and when incorporated into this hobby a new chapter for the listener can become the norm.

Of course people like Geoff Kait, will come up and put some kind of spin to this, such as we are saying demagging is bad, which is not the case. What we are saying is demagnetizing, as well as any part of audio, is variable.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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That would be illogical, Captain

Michael, I am getting the feeling you just might be the Col. Kurtz of audio, out there in your little Tuning empire without any paddle back to civilization and physical reality. Why anyone would make an argument such as you just did, using power supplies as an argument that demagnetization is a variable teak (and presumably bad for the sound) is beyond me. But I have a nagging suspicion you will attempt to explain it to me at your earliest convenience. If one option for power supplies is fixed what you're saying is audiophiles should not exercise that particular option, no? What style of power supply is in a portable Cassette Player? That one sounds good. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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