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March 11, 2009 - 4:50pm
#1
Sell The Sizzle, Not The Steak
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Geez. That's scary. I heard that sound in 1999 when I heard my first MP3 and I wondered why people love the format so much. The first cymbal crash set my teeth on edge. Then, of course I eventually realized it was the portability and ease of use when compared to records, CDs, and so forth. Not to mention Napster and everything that followed it. I mean, you cant exactly email someone a record right? Sure MP3s are useful for previewing and sharing new artists and albums, but really that's about it. IMO
It depends on the music they listen to I mean some music who the hell cares how it sounds but the smooth sax of Ben Webster or Stevie Ray's licks in a good system sound better along with a nice rendition of Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons".
Rich, I think you're missing the whole point here. According to the article, the kids, given the choice of listening to Ben Webster on crappy mp3 files or on immaculate vinyl or SACD, will PREFER listening to him via the crappy mp3 files.
Exactly. And that's what I'm disappointed about, see it's not that people have gotten used to the "sizzle" of the cymbals or whatever but that they actually prefer it over other mediums! That's completely unreasonable, I mean I know Hifi isn't the most popular hobby in the world but how can people actually prefer a lowfi sound? It boggles the mind.
In a strange way, I do get it. Like the article mentions, there are some older listeners who are so used to listening to their music on crackl-y records that they prefer those crackles... I've met a few of those. I guess some of the younger generation prefer music very bright & "sizzly" because it's more immediate to their senses. (Assault to the senses is more like it.) I don't denigrate their preference, though. The way we listen to music doesn't have solely to do with SQ... all other senses and memory and associations go with it, and if the younger generation hook into the mp3 sound and it triggers certain emotions and memory, that's as valid a reason as any to enjoy their music the way they do. Oh, well.
Now think back a moment...I know when I was listening to Zeppelin, Beatles and Hendrix I didn't care how my system sounded. To enjoy hi-fi you have to have the time to sit and listen in a great environment and today these kids are always on the go. Time is the new currency
Selfdivider, I understand what you're saying but here's the thing: I can listen to oh... I dunno Frank Zappa's Sofa No.2 or REMs Belong or the Finale track from Tubular Bells on a record, CD, MP3, FLAC, cassette, live whatever and it will still trigger the same emotional response. When I hear Paul McCartney yell "the magical mystery tour is waiting to take you away" in the chorus of mmt I'm still gonna feel the same sort of emotion no matter the fidelity of the playback medium, my point is, though, why force yourself to listen to a 128kbs MP3 when you can hear it on vinyl or CD? Or even in a lossless format on a portable player.
I find it very peculiar that people should have an affinity towards artifacts in a given recording medium. I've been listening to records for a long time but I still hate the crackles and pops, I hate it when a CD skips, and I hate everything about low quality MP3s (most of all those digital "blips" you sometimes get on a bad rip at about 1 million decibels) but the music itself doesn't change across the board, so, if given a choice why choose the worst?
Forgive me if I've told this story here previously but it's relevant. Some years ago I introduced a work colleague to my then system (Nelson Pass amps/Dynaudio Evidence 'Masters' in a vast room) He kept asking me to turn up the volume. The windows were rattling and I had to shout to be heard. Then I had an inspiration. I switched to the FM tuner and tuned it off channel so that distortion was added. "That's better mate" was my guests reaction.
Go figure!
I hear you, D2M, because I belong to the same camp as you. There's no way I can go back to the lossy files on ipod, and why really go back to the inferior reproduction of music if you can have it so much better? But I know several people who actually bought CDs or SACDs of the LPs that they played 100+ times, and they just couldn't get with it. I mean, they actually preferred the clean sound of CDs on a lot of discs, but for the music they really grew up with, they had to hear it on their thrashed records.
I kind of get that. Yes, sure, hi-fidelity is about the pursuit of the ultimate, closest to the live, real thing. But I think many audiophiles are also the ones whose listening habits are the most timid and limited in range. We care so much about that surface sound, how it approximates the live sound, that we kind of relegate the inner mysteries of music to the backseats. I think that's getting our priorities backwards, and I think that's also the reason why audiophiles can become laughingstocks in some camps. We get our Music Matters LPs, Mercury Living Presence 1st pressings or SACDs, listen to Jacintha or another pressing of Rickie Lee Jones or something like that. We kind of forget that music is not just sound, but something more interior, deeper, and more complex than that. We forget that music also has to do with the way we live, how our memories are wired. And for some people, the best way to listen to their music is the way which lets them hook into their emotions, memories, experience. And for some people, it happens to be via crackling LPs. Still for others, it's the lossy mp3 files for some godforsaken reason. But that's the best conduit for them if they get to lose themselves in the music they love, no?
I think there's a tendency for us audiophiles to often look down on these kids with white ipod earbuds jammed into their ears. I think it's unfortunate. Because chances are, they are actually listening to more cutting edge stuff than us, and they're actually taking more chances than us in listening to braver music, damn the SQ. Frankly, I'd rather listen to some lossy files of great new band or a fantastic new composer than 24-bit hi-rez files of some re-hashed audiophile crap. I think both sides can learn from each other.
Youre right and that's just as silly as listening to some crap mp3. I didn't get into high-end audio just so I could hear transients and delicate bass and inner detail. I got into high-end audio so I could hear transients and delicate bass and inner detail in the music that I already love and music I've not yet heard. I may be considered an audiophile but deep down I'm just a music lover. Now, I could listen to my music collection on a portable mono tape deck and I'd still enjoy it. But, I'd rather hear it on a nice system, ya know?
Ha.
Speak for yourself
Hmm... I'd have to go for both depending on what the 24-bit hi-rez recording is of. For example I'd rather listen to the 48kHz DVD-A of Tubular Bells than the record, I'd rather hear Chesky's pressing of Vivaldi's Four Seasons (fantastic btw) than the one I bought at Wal-Mart but that's just me.
Great post SD! The high end press is not doing enough to engage the younger audience. Perhaps they are just too old and move too slow to know how?
RG
My point exactly.
Your comment pretty much proves my point that the audiophiles' listening tastes are pretty conservative and aren't exactly cutting edge.
It's been my experience that revealing the inner mysteries of music are inseparable from the music being properly recorded. A recording in "real stereo", made in a non-studio environment, will give the listener a tremendous advantage in experiencing the emotional dimension of the musical piece all too often missing these days.
It's true that for us who are initiated to the rites of hi-fi audio cannot go back to the primitive days... but I'll still submit that when I was listening to my lossy files on my beat-up iPod or to my mediocre Sony all-in-one, I got to the core of the music and was moved all the same. Of course there's no substitute for the immaculate reproduction of well recorded music for us. It's really the best way to experience what we care about. But I loved listening to Lupu's late Brahms disc back then just as much as I do now, and was mystified & enthralled by the music just as much, too.
The same people who prefer MP3 sound are the ones who never needed to go beyond the 45 RPM's played on Close N' Play's from my own youth.
So, no worries. The 'soundies' will evolve to Hi Fi and the masses will not.
Same with cassettes, 8-tracks, AM radio...it will ever be thus.
Actually, it's more likely us who have the problem.
As evidenced in this thread, many of us need the "Hi Fi" part for the music to properly move us; much like some people need to have access to certain shoes in order to get their rocks off...only what we have is a sonic fetish.
Most people who are in to music can get complete joy from lower fidelity than we seem to require. It's condescending to say we must enjoy the music more, as proven by our fetish for Hi Fi gear.
I think it's us with the listening problem, not the people who are completely enraptured by their favorite music as played on their Bose table radio!
The only thing that excites me about this hobby anymore is Web Radio! Streamed to my big rig, thousands of stations with hundreds of channels catering to any musical fetish you could imagine. The oldies are out there for the ain
Great post, RG!
Arrgh... I was just saying that given a choice between two formats/ recordings I'm gonna choose the one of better quality. Sure The Four Seasons is an old favorite of mine as is LVB 9th Symphony, but I listen to new stuff all the time! I'm not just sitting here listening to whale calls recorded at 192kHz with a $1million microphone, I like to listen to some TV on the Radio/ Vampire Weekend/ Lily Allen just as much as the next guy.
Don't pigeon-hole me or I'll peck your eyes out.
Haha, thanks for adding the smiley face after the threat to peck my eyes out! Appreciate it...
Anyway, what I meant by cutting edge, btw., I didn't necessarily mean the latest in alternative/pop/rock... TV on the Radio, Lily Allen, etc. are fairly close to mainstream by indie standards, anyway. (This following isn't directed to you personally, deadicated, so don't peck my eyes out.
) But when it comes to classical music, what's usually talked about are the usual Beethovens, Vivaldis and Mozarts... but I don't see enough on new composers, etc. Sariaaho. Golijov... Another example: Elliott Carter has been going through a remarkable burst of late energy and has been putting out vital works and many cities have programmed his works during the past year (it was his centennary year)with sizable, passionate crowds. But you didn't really hear about him in audiophile press or forums. I'm not mentioning these to point a finger, but when even mainstream concert-going crowds are accepting new music and eclectic programming with great enthusiasm, it's strange and disappointing to me when that kind of paradigm shift isn't made among audiophiles.
I do give props to "Todd" in this forum, who posts about his new music discoveries in the new classical section, for keeping the hope alive! Also, WP deserves credit for mentioning works by Steve Reich, etc. regularly... and his coverage of Terezin disc was one of the most enjoyable pieces in 'Phile last year for me....
Excuse me butting into the eye pecking Mr/ms Divider. I seldom mention new classical compositions of forums because doing so has always been met with a wall of indifference . I'd not heard of Sariaaho or Golijov myself. so thanks, I'll follow them up. You may like to follow up on two Australian composers putting out some fabulous pieces of late, Peter Sculthorpe & Carl Vine, usually released on the "Tall Poppy" or "ABC" labels.
Sadly though the vast majority of concert and radio programming here is of the war horse variety. Beethoven' Fifth ( they've made me hate it!) Dvorak's The New World Symphony, Brahms 4th ( haven't made me hate that yet), Tchaikovsky's treaclyest compositions - - otherwise the old biddies, whose philanthropy they depend upon, won't cough up the money for orchestras, opera companies etc.
keep doing what you are doing stephen. i enjoy your enthusiasm, kinda reminds me of myself when i was a young man making my early forays into the audio world.
Yes, Web radio is great. I have the NPR app for the iPod Touch that allows me to hear any NPR staion as long as I am within reach of a WiFi hub. And the Web allows to me to hear classical music on WFMT and WGBH, though the sound quality is only okay, unfortunately -- good enough for background but not for serious listening.
haha I was hoping you'd get the animal pun rather than take it seriously. some - i imagine- would have reacted differently...
But that's neither here nor there. I now see what you're saying about cutting edge vs. popular music or whatever comparison we're making here and the truth is this: i just dont have the energy or inclination to dicover new music anymore. i used to be all about listening to this that and the other thing but nowadays i tend to let new things find me rather than the other way around. yeah, im kinda ashamed of the fact, but im sure the bug'll hit me sooner or later.
Should be pretty obvious I didn't take your joke seriously? Anyway, I also dig how you're listening to music, letting the new music find you, vice versa. When it becomes 'work,' it's just less enjoyable.
yeah i knew you got the joke i was just saying some people wouldnt have i guess
hey, they quoted me on the home page, thats kinda neat.
Thought it was a funny article. Most young adults are disappointed when they put their iPod to a large system (even of mediocre quality). They then get a higher bit rate which helps. Once in awhile they hear a LP on a turntable or a CD in a good CD Player - and they realize what the 'audiophile' fuss is about.
That sums up my experience, anyway. A local turntable shop (Audiophile store) said his clients are above 50 and under 30 for turntables. The under 30 crowd sees a good used record is about $8 - and inexpensive good quality turntable can be had for ~$300 so makes the plunge. The above 50 usually has a legacy record collection.
I do not own any LP's, so I have been holding off on vinyl until he other parts of my system are where I want them to be. Or until I am worn down.
(I love classical music, so SACD holds the most promise for me atm)