You are here

Log in or register to post comments
theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
Yamaha Receiver for Kef LS50/R200C,...

Hi all,

I am intend to purchase a Yamaha Receiver, would be highly appreciated if could consult me

(i) My current system :

+ Room set-up : 4,5 meter (wide) * 3,7 meter (depth) * 3m (height). Equipped with absorber & diffuser panels,wooden floor, leather sofa, side - bookshelf.

Total approximately 16 square meter (small room) = 172 Square feet.

+ Equipments :

LCD Sony 46 inch (HDMI) – Model KLV –W550A
http://www.sony-asia.com/support/product/KLV-46W550A

Receiver RX-V1065 (105w * 7.1 channels) – NEED TO UPGRADE
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v106...

HD Bluray Player 103D
https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Overview.aspx

Subwoofer Rel T7
http://rel.net/product-archive/t-7/

Kef LS50 (front)
http://www.kef.com/html/en/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/LS50/overview/

Kef R200C (center)
http://kef.com/html/en/showroom/hi-fi_series/r_series/fact_sheet/centre/...

Kef Q800ds (surround)
http://kef.com/html/en/showroom/hifi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Centre_...

+ I am using Receiver RX-V1065 (105w * 7.1 channels) for 3 -4 years, it is pretty good with my demand.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v106...

However, I just upgrade all speakers system for home theatre (HT) as listed – above (LS50, Rel T7, r200c, Q800DS) since last year (2015) so Old Receiver (RX-V1065) may not well – compatible with the rest equipments at the moment.

My purpose is to upgarde another Yamaha Receiver. Aiming only with HT, not for music (I have separate equips for 2 –channels music system)/ principle sourse in my side : High Definition (HD) movie 2D (not 3D yet).

(ii) I wonder with some different Yama Receiver as under :

1/ RX-V2067 (130W * 9.2 channels)
http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx-v...

I can find in my side

2/ RX-A1050 (120W * 7.2 channels)
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a1050_black_u/?m...

I can find in my side

3/ RX-A2050 (155W * 9.2 channels)
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a2050_black_u/?m...

I can find in my side

4/ RX-A2060 (155W * 9.2 channels)
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a2060_u/?mode=model

Model 2060, may not be available yet in my market.

+ My listening room is small so NOT focus solely on Receiver Power, but the Sound quality & Sonic characteristics is my principle aiming.

So would be grateful if can consult me which is the most Suitable Receiver, bases on my given info of acoustic room, present stuffs & specific purposes.

+ As my checking, I find that RX-V 2067 & RX-A2050 may suits me best

If old model RX-A2050, much better in sound quality then RX-V2067 ? I knew that all series RX-A belongs to Adventage range (latest technology of Yama Receiver)

My HT system is only 5.1 now, tigh space so 7.1 / 7.2 or even more speakers be almost impossible for my room.

In my case, just need RX-A 1050 (Receiver 7.2) only (most close with my purpose : 5.1/ 5.2) ? or should use RX-A 2050 (Receiver 9.2),….. as RX- A2050 may have better quality of sound & sonic characters ?

RX-A2050 released in 2015, I should wait the update version : RX-A2060 (2016 product) in my side ? if RX-A2060 have outstading upgarde to compare with RX-A2050 ?

Look forward to hearing from you soonest.

Sincerely,

Viet

commsysman
commsysman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 14 min ago
Joined: Apr 4 2006 - 11:33am
RECEIVER
theviethd wrote:

Hi all,

I am intend to purchase a Yamaha Receiver, would be highly appreciated if could consult me

(i) My current system :

+ Room set-up : 4,5 meter (wide) * 3,7 meter (depth) * 3m (height). Equipped with absorber & diffuser panels,wooden floor, leather sofa, side - bookshelf.

Total approximately 16 square meter (small room) = 172 Square feet.

+ Equipments :

LCD Sony 46 inch (HDMI) – Model KLV –W550A
http://www.sony-asia.com/support/product/KLV-46W550A

Receiver RX-V1065 (105w * 7.1 channels) – NEED TO UPGRADE
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v106...

HD Bluray Player 103D
https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Overview.aspx

Subwoofer Rel T7
http://rel.net/product-archive/t-7/

Kef LS50 (front)
http://www.kef.com/html/en/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/LS50/overview/

Kef R200C (center)
http://kef.com/html/en/showroom/hi-fi_series/r_series/fact_sheet/centre/...

Kef Q800ds (surround)
http://kef.com/html/en/showroom/hifi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Centre_...

+ I am using Receiver RX-V1065 (105w * 7.1 channels) for 3 -4 years, it is pretty good with my demand.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v106...

Sincerely,

Viet

I question whether ANY Yamaha receiver can properly drive the speakers you have.

Yamaha is notorious for its marginal power supply designs in HT receivers, and this means that the peak current required to drive speakers like your is just not available from that kind of receiver. This means that you are not getting the kind of performance that your speakers are capable of.

The supposed "105-watt" rating of your current receiver is only for 2-channels; it can't put out more than 50 watts or so per channel when driving your six speakers (if that). It is simply not designed to drive speakers like yours properly.

The only receivers that have proper power supply designs that will provide high peak drive current to your speakers are those from Arcam, Cambridge Audio, and NAD.

If you really want to get the performance that your speakers are capable of, and hear what they really are supposed to sound like, you need to spend some serious money on a good receiver and quit looking at the 2nd-rate junk that companies like Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pioneer put out.

That is like buying a Ferrari or Corvette and then putting a set of cheap tires on it.

I recommend that you get either a NAD T777 receiver or a Cambridge Audio CXR200.
Once you do so, you will be amazed at how incredibly good your speakers sound.

It is silly to buy the kind of high-quality speakers you have and then try to drive them with a low-priced inadequate receiver. That is false economy.

commsysman
commsysman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 14 min ago
Joined: Apr 4 2006 - 11:33am
RECEIVER
commsysman][quote=theviethd wrote:

Hi all,

If it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to buy a NAD or Cambridge Audio receiver where you live, and Yamaha is the ONLY choice you have, then the RX-A3060 might be worth considering. I can't really recommend it, but it is the closest thing Yamaha makes to an adequate solution.

I recommend that you get either a NAD T777 receiver or a Cambridge Audio CXR200.
Once you do so, you will be amazed at how incredibly good your speakers sound.

It is silly to buy the kind of high-quality speakers you have and then try to drive them with a low-priced inadequate receiver. That is false economy.

theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
Cambridge Audio & Marantz, be avail in my side
commsysman][quote=commsysman wrote:
theviethd wrote:

Hi all,

If it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to buy a NAD or Cambridge Audio receiver where you live, and Yamaha is the ONLY choice you have, then the RX-A3060 might be worth considering. I can't really recommend it, but it is the closest thing Yamaha makes to an adequate solution.

I recommend that you get either a NAD T777 receiver or a Cambridge Audio CXR200.
Once you do so, you will be amazed at how incredibly good your speakers sound.

Hi,

Tks for yr advice.

So far, I always sticked to Yamaha brand for HT system : reasonable cost, popularity (my side) & well –known of surround effect for HT (my little knowledge).

If RX-V1065, not precisely be 105W* 7 channes as PR, is really pity for my speakers system matching with this AV.

Actually, I have been using RX-V1065 since 2009/2010 (around) with old speaker system. I just replaced whole new speakers (LS50, R200C, Q800DS, Rel T7,…) in 2015 (last year). So I am fully aware of the incompatibility of RX-V1065 with the update speakers. However, could not upgrade the Reveiver at the same time due to limited budget

That why I am very serious to consider & purchase a better AV that really suites the rest of my equips at the moment.

In HT equipments (Receiver), Japan brands such as : Yama, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer are very popular at market here. Be very rare & more expensive with European names as Nad, Cambridge, Arcam, Rotel, Anthem,…

At home, I also using stereo system (2 channels) for music, advantage of using equipments of same nationality, normally brings the best performace – was my knowledge. Due to the limited Import & Distribution of European brands in my side, led to the dilliculty in sort-out & pick –up.

With your advice : just Cambridge Audio CXR200 can be found in my side.

As I knew, Kef speakers are on bright side. So choosing a AV that delivers warm sound, may balance its sonic characteristics. How do you think about this ?

As checked, following brands have warm sound : Nad, Cambridge Audio & Marantz,…

Can AV Marantz be suite with my speaker system ?

Cambridge Audio CXR200 looks solid, great. How is the Marantz 7009/ 7010 (9.2 * 125W) as to compare with CXR200 ?

http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avrece...

AV list of your advice, including 2 top –end AV : Yama RX-A3060 (not yet distributed in my market) & Cambrige CXR200

Frankly, I checked much about Yamaha RX-A2050 as find this may suite with my system. But with yr advice, quite top-end of AV should goes with my system & minimum 120W * 7 channels.

One thing that I am unclear - if the later versions be really better in sound quality than previous ver ? or just provides stronger power & more speakers system (9.1/ 11.1) such as Yama RX-A 3050, really be superior to RX-A2050 in sound quality ?

I raised this question as did check with Yamaha Com about this. According to their info, later version be just higher power, more speaker system (range of 3 AV – RX-A range of 1050/2050/3050), while sound quality be the same. Of course, this matter can be much different from other brands.

One outstanding features of upgrade AV that I expect is Dolby Atlmos as intend to add Kef R50 (Dolby Altmos) in my system this year.

http://www.kef.com/html/en/showroom/hi-fi_series/r_series/fact_sheet/atm...

However, seems that both Nad T777 & Cambridge CXR200, miss Dolby Atlmos, right ?

Really appreciate your support & advice.

mooster1223
mooster1223's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 12 hours ago
Joined: May 24 2015 - 9:19pm
Something isn't right here
theviethd wrote:

As I knew, Kef speakers are on bright side.

If your LS50's are on the bright side, you have a system problem. I agree that their low end will not exactly impress most however, you're running them with a sub which should make them disappear. I loved mine and they were anything but bright. They are the most neutral speakers I've heard.

Chet Roe
Chet Roe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 day ago
Joined: Dec 15 2015 - 10:47am
call/email the folks at

call/email the folks at FortCollinsAudio in Ft. Collins CO....they handle both Yamaha and KEF and have some opinions re a good combination of LS50 and Yamaha!! good folks there

theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
Final list : CXR200 & SR7010
Chet Roe wrote:

call/email the folks at FortCollinsAudio in Ft. Collins CO....they handle both Yamaha and KEF and have some opinions re a good combination of LS50 and Yamaha!! good folks there

Tks for the lead.

I would contact Fort Collins for futher info.

However, also put 2 AVR in my final list : Marantz SR7010 & Cambridge CXR200.

Both are great, fanstatic AVR. In my side, Airplay, music stream,... (modern features) are not much compatible with current equips, so I just give priority for audio & video (4K, up-scale 1080 to 4K compatibility).

SR7010 is reviewed as warm- sound AVR, likely to be better than CXR200 in my system.

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 40 min ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
Yamaha

I find Yamaha Amps to be a hair bright and this seems universal and is their house sound. I have listened to NAD, Denon and Yamaha side by side and NAD is warm, Denon is neutral and Yamaha is bright. Those Kef's, the LS50s actually need a fair amount of power to drive them well and agree with commsysman.

With AVRs I see three factors that are important -
- Quality of amplification
- Quality of room correction software
- Quality of video processing hardware

If you listen a lot in multi-channel and have a poor room design, quality room correction can be super important. Most of the Japanese brands have great room correction while some of the American & European brands have yet to completely embrace the concept and although they include it, often the versions are dated. If your room layout is optimal, this is moot.

And when I say optimal, square or rectangular with the side speakers mounted high and about 30cm's behind your seating location on either side. If your room shape is odd or your speaker layout is less than optimal then room correction is critical for great sound.

For quality of amplification, I personally like Denon and Marantz between the Japanese companies. Denon is neutral while Marantz is a hair warm but that is only noticeable in a side by side comparison. I have a $500 Denon receiver and separate Marantz pre/pro and power amp. The Marantz system will rival the experience you get in an IMAX and short of the ultra elite stuff like Classe, is going to deliver superb audio quality. What I found shocking is that my $500 Denon AVR sounds closer than you would expect for 1/6th the price.

I agree that NAD, Camridge and Arcam are better amplifiers, but you need to double check what version of room correction software they have and often they have mediocre video processing or it is just HDMI pass through for video.

For video processing Onkyo/Integra is king. No question this is where they shine and technically are superior to D&M (the holding company that own Denon & Marantz). That being said, D&Ms video processing tends to be very good, just not quite as good as Onkyo. What I find with Onkyo's amplification is that it tends to be a bit cool and borders on clinically accurate. However, once you run the room correction, that equalizer seems to smooth the sound out. In multi-channel, they are great. In two channel where Audyssey is off, I find that clinical cool sound comes back.

In the US, Integra is the choice of most home installers as it comes with a pro version of Audyssey and are THX Certified which means they are generally stable down to 2 ohms and can handle a wide range of speakers. Onkyo is the consumer version and as best I can tell, the primary difference between high end Onkyo and Integra is the Audyssey version.

If video processing is most important and you never listen in 2 channel mode, I would lean toward Onkyo/Integra. If audio is most important and/or you listen in 2 channel mode I would select Denon or Marantz.

One note, Cambridge offers a super high quality amplifier with bazaar misses in other technology. From a music standpoint, it is far superior to Japanese counterparts. It offers no room correction. It has a simple audio setup that will alter the volume level of each speaker which is one of those things that audio purists like but in practice, leads to irritating, distracting surround sound. For video, I do't get the Audio purist mindset because every room is radically different and sound optimization between five speakers is impossible with simple volume adjustments alone. Additionally, the Cambridge does have video upscaling, but it falls short of what you will get with any of the Japanese companies.

If you are an audio purist or spend more time listening to music and watch the occasional movie/TV in surround, the Cambridge is amazing. If this is a video first experience, the Cambridge would be an odd choice.

theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
bierfeldt wrote:
bierfeldt wrote:

I find Yamaha Amps to be a hair bright and this seems universal and is their house sound. I have listened to NAD, Denon and Yamaha side by side and NAD is warm, Denon is neutral and Yamaha is bright. Those Kef's, the LS50s actually need a fair amount of power to drive them well and agree with commsysman.

If you listen a lot in multi-channel and have a poor room design, quality room correction can be super important. Most of the Japanese brands have great room correction while some of the American & European brands have yet to completely embrace the concept and although they include it, often the versions are dated. If your room layout is optimal, this is moot.

One note, Cambridge offers a super high quality amplifier with bazaar misses in other technology. From a music standpoint, it is far superior to Japanese counterparts. It offers no room correction. It has a simple audio setup that will alter the volume level of each speaker which is one of those things that audio purists like but in practice, leads to irritating, distracting surround sound. For video, I do't get the Audio purist mindset because every room is radically different and sound optimization between five speakers is impossible with simple volume adjustments alone. Additionally, the Cambridge does have video upscaling, but it falls short of what you will get with any of the Japanese companies.

If you are an audio purist or spend more time listening to music and watch the occasional movie/TV in surround, the Cambridge is amazing. If this is a video first experience, the Cambridge would be an odd choice.

Hi Bierfeldt,

Tks for get back to my post.

My criteria : Movie - 5.1 system (may upgarde to 5.1.2 later with Dolby Atmos Kef R50) - 80% & music (2 channels mode) – 20%

Room set – up : normal (absober & diffusel panels) but not optimal in professional way.

So far, I always set –up by manual, not use auto room correction. Not sure that auto room correction really be effective in my room.

With your importants factors, I listed as under among 3 short –list products :

1/ Marantz SR7010 (DOLBY ATMOS)
http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avrece...

Power : 9.2 *125W
Audio: Auro-3D Upgradeable,
Video : full 4K Ultra HD connectivity and HDCP 2.2 compliance.
Room correction software : Audyssey Platinum DSP Suite (Audyssey MultEQ XT32)

2/ Cambridge Audio CXR200 (NO Dolby Atmos)
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxr200

Power : 7.2 *120W
Audio:
Video : support 4K and 3D standards, and the CXR200 will upscale all 1080p signals to 4K ultra high definition.
Room correction software : auto set –up (NO Room correction)

*** Note :
Asked CA about the possibility of a future firmware upgrade of the CXR200 tosupport 4K HDR content (HDMI 2.0a). Accourding to hdmi.org this may be possible, but depends on the design by the manufacturer.

This is the reply i received from CA. Somewhat a bit of a bummer...
--
HDMI 2.0a added support for High Dynamic Range (HDR) video. As this update to the specification came out after the development of the CXRs, the HDR format is not supported and is a hardware change, meaning that it willl not be possible to add this to the CXR.

3/ Arcam AVR380 (NO Dolby Atmos)
http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,AV-Amplifiers,AVR380.htm#techspecs

Power : 7.1 * 75W
Audio:
Video : 4K "Ultra HD" (HDMI1.4) and 3D video capability on board. "Ultra HD" video scaling
Room correction software : I can not find (seem be Basic EQ)

No Integra in my side. Just Japan brands : Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo/ US : Marantz (much choice), HK (not much choice)/ EU : Arcam, CA

Would be grateful if can advise me which above AVR is the best suite. In yr saying, I lean to SR7010.

theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
theviethd wrote:
theviethd wrote:
bierfeldt wrote:

I find Yamaha Amps to be a hair bright and this seems universal and is their house sound. I have listened to NAD, Denon and Yamaha side by side and NAD is warm, Denon is neutral and Yamaha is bright. Those Kef's, the LS50s actually need a fair amount of power to drive them well and agree with commsysman.

If you listen a lot in multi-channel and have a poor room design, quality room correction can be super important. Most of the Japanese brands have great room correction while some of the American & European brands have yet to completely embrace the concept and although they include it, often the versions are dated. If your room layout is optimal, this is moot.

One note, Cambridge offers a super high quality amplifier with bazaar misses in other technology. From a music standpoint, it is far superior to Japanese counterparts. It offers no room correction. It has a simple audio setup that will alter the volume level of each speaker which is one of those things that audio purists like but in practice, leads to irritating, distracting surround sound. For video, I do't get the Audio purist mindset because every room is radically different and sound optimization between five speakers is impossible with simple volume adjustments alone. Additionally, the Cambridge does have video upscaling, but it falls short of what you will get with any of the Japanese companies.

If you are an audio purist or spend more time listening to music and watch the occasional movie/TV in surround, the Cambridge is amazing. If this is a video first experience, the Cambridge would be an odd choice.

Hi Bierfeldt,

Tks for get back to my post.

My criteria : Movie - 5.1 system (may upgarde to 5.1.2 later with Dolby Atmos Kef R50) - 80% & music (2 channels mode) – 20%

Room set – up : normal (absober & diffusel panels) but not optimal in professional way.

So far, I always set –up by manual, not use auto room correction. Not sure that auto room correction really be effective in my room.

With your importants factors, I listed as under among 3 short –list products :

1/ Marantz SR7010 (DOLBY ATMOS)
http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avrece...

Power : 9.2 *125W
Audio: Auro-3D Upgradeable,
Video : full 4K Ultra HD connectivity and HDCP 2.2 compliance.
Room correction software : Audyssey Platinum DSP Suite (Audyssey MultEQ XT32)

2/ Cambridge Audio CXR200 (NO Dolby Atmos)
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxr200

Power : 7.2 *120W
Audio:
Video : support 4K and 3D standards, and the CXR200 will upscale all 1080p signals to 4K ultra high definition.
Room correction software : auto set –up (NO Room correction)

*** Note :
Asked CA about the possibility of a future firmware upgrade of the CXR200 tosupport 4K HDR content (HDMI 2.0a). Accourding to hdmi.org this may be possible, but depends on the design by the manufacturer.

This is the reply i received from CA. Somewhat a bit of a bummer...
--
HDMI 2.0a added support for High Dynamic Range (HDR) video. As this update to the specification came out after the development of the CXRs, the HDR format is not supported and is a hardware change, meaning that it willl not be possible to add this to the CXR.

3/ Arcam AVR380 (NO Dolby Atmos)
http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,AV-Amplifiers,AVR380.htm#techspecs

Power : 7.1 * 75W
Audio:
Video : 4K "Ultra HD" (HDMI1.4) and 3D video capability on board. "Ultra HD" video scaling
Room correction software : I can not find (seem be Basic EQ)

No Integra in my side. Just Japan brands : Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo/ US : Marantz (much choice), HK (not much choice)/ EU : Arcam, CA

Would be grateful if can advise me which above AVR is the best suite. In yr saying, I lean to SR7010 (high power, warm sound, support 4K Video, room correction)

bierfeldt
bierfeldt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 40 min ago
Joined: Oct 26 2007 - 2:30pm
80% muti-channel and ATMOS

If 80% of your usage will be video and you are thinking of upgrading to ATMOS in the future, this decision is easy. Cambridge and Arcam don't offer ATMOS at all. This would leave you with Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc... to choose from. If you like a slightly warm sound, I would avoid Yamaha and Onkyo. Feels like Marantz is pretty obvious. It has all the features you want, the right sound profile and it is quality hardware. If you get the Marantz, try running Audyssey. It is easy to toggle on and off. I have perfect speaker placement set up to THX standards and found Audyssey still improved sound I my room.

theviethd
theviethd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: Oct 22 2014 - 7:10pm
Would go with Marantz
bierfeldt wrote:

If 80% of your usage will be video and you are thinking of upgrading to ATMOS in the future, this decision is easy. Cambridge and Arcam don't offer ATMOS at all. This would leave you with Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc... to choose from. If you like a slightly warm sound, I would avoid Yamaha and Onkyo. Feels like Marantz is pretty obvious. It has all the features you want, the right sound profile and it is quality hardware. If you get the Marantz, try running Audyssey. It is easy to toggle on and off. I have perfect speaker placement set up to THX standards and found Audyssey still improved sound I my room.

Tks,I would go for Marantz, model SR7010 seem be the best suit.

  • X