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November 28, 2015 - 12:23pm
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Upgrade path for a starter system
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I have questions.
You currently are running the PC to the Marantz via HDMI. Are you doing this because you don't have a USB input on the Marantz? If you had a USB DAC, would you need HDMI? Will this remain a 2 channel system. Am I understanding that you have a passive JL Audio subwoofer and are using the Onkyo strictly as a power amp?
I would like to think you could simplify things and get a cleaner system with fewer redundant parts. It will take up less space and hopefully deliver a cleaner, clearer sound. Will anything beside your PC/Media Server and turntable be attached?
Finally, have you heard any equipment that you particularly like or dislike? Have you gone out to any audio stores to hear any new equipment? Even Best Buy. Also, do you have a rough budget?
Thanks for looking at my setup bierfeldt!
There isn't any USB input on the Marantz. If there was a USB input I'd probably still be running the HDMI from the computer as it is also used for video sometimes. However, the planned media server would be only used for music and it could go directly into an amp via a USB input if that was an option. This will remain a 2 (or 2.1) system, and you are correct: the JL Audio subwoofer is passive and the Onkyo is just being used as a power amp currently (Marantz subwoofer pre out → single channel line level input on the Onkyo). I have enjoyed the improved bass response from the system with this addition despite it being basically cobbled together out of spare parts. Also, I guess I should have mentioned the Marantz is being used as a receiver for all the video sources in the room as well. I was trying to isolate the first diagram to only the audio components, but here is a more complete picture of what is going on:
I would definitely like to have a cleaner system with fewer duplicate pieces going on. For now this system will have to stay responsible for dealing with video as well, although I plan on splitting it up into stereo and AV setups once I move to a bigger place. One upgrade path I was considering was to basically set up a separate audio system and video system (sources and amps) and then use a speaker switch so that both systems would utilize the B&W 303s for the time being.
In terms of budget I was looking in the $100-300 range for phono preamps, and when I was looking at getting a new amp I was looking in the $500-1,000 range. I'm also not opposed to buying used or factory refurbished to help bring the price down a bit. I've looked in some electronics shops and been in a couple hifi stores, but I can't say I've spent a lot of time comparing different brands of the same price point. I can say that I've enjoyed setups most that have a slightly warmer, round sound without it being at the expense of good clarity and separation.
Glen
this saves a whole round of us suggesting preamps and amps that don't meet your needs.
Lets start with the phono stage. There are dozens of units at or below $300. The one that stands out to me is the Vincent Audio PHO-8 at $299. It was recommended to me by the guys at Needledoctor and I bought it. Another fellow here replaced his Cambridge unit with it and we both love it. The level of detail is extremely high while the noise filter is fabulous. Shortly after both of us go this unit, The Absolute Sound recommended it in there phono stages under $2K buyers guide and if I recall, the final descriptor was some thing like "you will need to spend a lot more to outperform the Vincent Pho-8."
I get a clearance e-mail from Audio Advisor and as of Friday they had one for $269.10 that was a demo.
Regarding preamp, power amp, etc... this is a little less straightforward which I suppose is why you reached out to the community here. For power amp, you obviously want to get the nicest unit you can for your budget. In the sub $1000 range there is not a lot in the way of new equipment. Marantz has an MM7025 which a nice nought power amp for the money. I have its 8 channel big brother, the MM8003 as the power amp in my home theatre. For the money, it is a good sounding unit. You can get one of these from Accessories4less for $549.
The other thing you might want to consider is a Marantz AV7005 pre/pro. This is the brain of my home theatre at the moment. It lacks the latest greatest DSPs like Dolby Atmos and does not support 4K TV but has lingered on the Sound and Vision recommended components list for years after it was discontinued. It has a very strong internal DAC implementation and is UPnP and DLNA compliant while also supporting Pandora and Apples AirPlay. It shines in direct & pure direct mode for audio. Also at Accessories4less for $649. If you want to simply use the same power amp, later on you could add a higher end 2 channel pre-amp and use the HT bypass function.
This will underperform vs a $1500 (new) integrated but you can expect to get sound in line with one of Marantz's main line integrates like the PM8005. The nice thing is that longer term, you could simply add a multi-channel power amp like the MM7055 if you want multi-channel video.
If this isn't the right solution for you, I would look for a Vincent Audio power amp on Audiogon or eBay. You may be able to find a Vincent SA31 MK in your price range as it is $1599 new.
You could also consider Emotiva which is a web based direct dealer. This is an extremely controversial thing for me to type as there are people on this forum that love Emotiva and swear by it while other despise them and think they make crap. Personally, I have never heard them. None of my friends have a unit and I have never done and in-home demo with them. The deal is, they have a no questions asked return policy so you can try the unit in home and if your don't like it, just return it. What is noteworthy is that their pricing is awesome. They also make very modestly priced mono-blocks which you could consider to drive your passive JL Audio sub,
This ought to give you a place to start to do some research. Let us know your thoughts and we can do our best to try and help you make good choices.
I suggest the Musical Fidelity V90 phono preamp, which goes for around $229.
I think it is the best one available for under $300; very very good-sounding.
The Emotiva XPA-100 is only $319 from Emotiva direct and has 250 watts of power at 8 ohms, and 400 watts at 4 ohms.
That would be a nice solution for an amplifier to drive your subwoofer.
Thanks again for your help. So, from both the comments here I'm thinking about the following steps to start moving my setup into a better direction.
1. Pick up a phono preamp. I will probably try to find a retailer with a good return policy and pick out 2 or 3 to try with my setup, choose which one I like best, and return the others. Both the preamps suggested look like they would be good choices. It seems like there have been some complaints about the wall wort power supply for the Music Fidelity V90 being a bit anemic. Also, I'm curious if anyone here has experience with the Schiit Mani, and if it would be worth trying out and comparing to the two phono stages mentioned above. I read a review where somebody said they liked their Mani better than their Vincent Audio PHO-8 (although that could just be baloney).
2. Hopefully get my custom music server set up and running. This will require a USB DAC for best integration.
3. Add in a dedicated stereo power amp. Possibly the Marantz MM7025, which I'm assuming would be run off of the pre-outs from my current AVR (the Marantz NR1403).
4. Pick up a dedicated pre/pro to replace the AVR as the brains of the operation. I would probably want to wait for Marantz to release a model with 4k capability so I wouldn't have to think about replacing the unit in the near future, or look at other models.
5. Find a more suitable solution for my subwoofer situation. Likely either trying an Emotiva mono block, or just upgrading to full range speakers and removing the subwoofer from my setup entirely.
It sounds like this would give me good flexibility in the future as well. I could easily purchase a stereo pre/pro unit to pair with the stereo power amp, and split out the AV components into a home theater setup with the purchase of a new multi-channel power amp.
How does that sound for a game plan moving forward?
Glen
I like the idea of trying two or three units of you can.
I have heard the same thing about that Musical Fidelity and several people have mentioned they have simply purchased a better power supply. I have never had one in the house so I have not personally tried to deal with it. Regarding the Schlitt, I have not heard it and have no POV. In the end, there is no objective way to define which unit is better whether it be the MF, Schlitt or Vincent. It is strictly a matter of personal preference which makes your plan to demo several units very wise.
Marantz already make a 4K compatible pre/pro. It is the AV7702 though it is a bit pricy at $2199. I have no plan to upgrade to 4K at this time so I haven't listened to and have no POV on the 7702. I can only tell you that it exists.
When you get ready to look at USB DACs there are a lot of nice units at different price points. You can get a great unit for as little as $299 like the Peachtree DAC iTx or you can spend more depending on exactly what features that you want or need. Some of the higher end units even have built in preamps. Again, depends on your budget.
A phono preamp uses a miniscule amount of power, and my experience has been that the V90 phono preamp produces excellent results with the power supply it comes with.
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!