bierfeldt
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Should I get an outboard DAC - if yes, suggestions
Glotz
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Cambridge DAC Magic or the MF M1 Dac.  $450./$700.  Read the reviews.  Sam is telling the truth.  They are astounding, in most any system.  Tip of the hat to China, abeit a reluctant one.  A new BD player will not give you the quantum leap you are looking for, IMO.  Read the reviews, they are simply putting way more technology into a DAC at the price, vs. a on-board unit. I own a PS3, and while it's very competent, it's not a any of those two- not even close.  Same deal with the Marantz. Audition either one, or buy one with a good return policy. No brainer.

dbowker
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I have serious doubts about whether an outboard DAC under $1000 would give you any benefit at all over your Marantz. I have the Marantz SR7002 AV Receiver and have found it's DAC(s) to be outstanding for stereo playback. In fact I have used it as the DAC/amp from my Wadia iTransport and the results have been amazing. If you use the Direct Mode everything else is cut from the path and you get outstanding digital stereo processing. If you have small Left and Right speakers with a Sub then set it to Stereo mode, which will allow the inclusion of the sub.

Either way, adding a DAC just adds at least one or maybe more variable(s), including more wires, more opportunity for jitter, another thing to power, and a longer path. At least if you are going with a digital out from your player into the Pre/Pro you've eliminated a step.

Now if you were talking about an older CD player, and just going into a standard Pre-Amp it might be a different story. A good DAC can have its advantages, esp. if it has several inputs and might be connected to some sort of streaming interface etc. But for what you have now, I don't see you getting a significant advantage.

bierfeldt
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Here is my issue.  I look at the specs on these things and can't see a noteworthy difference.  I know different manufacturers produce different quality chip sets.  I know that intuitively a $50 chip is likely not going to sound as good as a $500 chip.  I can set two Onkyo receiver side by side, one that is $400 and one that is $1400 that have the same specs, same power rating and they will sound radically differnet based on the components used to make up those receivers.  So, when do you hit that point of diminishing returns where the increased cost is not going to produce a noteworty improvement in sound quality?  When do you hit the point where a human being can no longer perceive the difference and it really is just about bragging that you have superior technology?

That is what I am trying to figure out. 

dbowker
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Thats where reviews (pro or consumer) can help. Spec.s as published don't say highlight like isolated power supplies, quality of parts, signal path design, software (very important in DACs), isolation of parts, and a whole range of important differences you can have in twpo similar items.

Drtrey3
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"So, when do you hit that point of diminishing returns where the increased cost is not going to produce a noteworty improvement in sound quality?"

Only your ears can tell you that. Well, and your wallet!

"When do you hit the point where a human being can no longer perceive the difference and it really is just about bragging that you have superior technology?" I think our ears tell us that too, but maybe a therapist can help.  8)

If someone wishes to spend their money on expensive gear to impress their friends I have no quarrel with them. I try to be a good friend as a way of impressing my friends, but everybody has to figure out their own way. I am not as interested in measurements because I cannot really understand them anyway. Not enough engineering background for me. So I read and listen. But mostly, I enjoy the music!

Trey

JIMV
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I doubt any DAC in a Pre at that price point will be as good as a dedicated one like a DacMan...The thing is, the DACMAN is getting on in years and the Pre is very new...I would consider something newer like a Music Fidelity M1 ($700) or a Rega DAC ($995) or the benchmark DAC 1 (begining at $995). You want something that will play at least 24/96 and I would recommend something with a USB input as that does seem to where the industry is going.

The why is simple...IMHO the device after the speakers that will ave the biggest impact on your sound is the DAC.

bierfeldt
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My gut was telling me that abou $1000 would get me a noticeable step forward and that seems to be where you all are steering me. This is going to be interesting. I need to decide if I want to start on MU 2 channel living room system or pick up the DAC first. May be wise to pick out a DAC because I will need a second one for the 2 channel system. Btw, sorry for the dreadful typing.....

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