caphill
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Rotel RB-1080 stereo power amp vs RB-1582 Mkll stereo amp
commsysman
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I don't think you would be upgrading much, if at all.

They are fairly good amplifiers, but do not have the transparency or accuracy I want in a system.

It is very sad to think of those excellent speakers being driven by an amplifier that is never going to allow them to perform properly; you need to do something about that!

The Musical Fidelity M6PRX is a true Class A recommended amplifier that would be a dramatic improvement over either of them, and its price is a bargain for the accuracy and spectacular sound quality it delivers (comparable to amps costing 3 to 5 times as much).

I highly recommend that you consider it if you want a significant improvement in your system. Your speakers are excellent, and deserve to be heard at their best, and your current amp is not worthy of them.

At a slightly lower price, the M6si Integrated amplifier would also be worth considering. It is a new model and only $3000, and would replace your preamp and amp and would also be a huge upgrade.

Another huge improvement would be an OPPO 105. The DAC chips in the 105 are WAY better than the Rotel DAC or the 103 DAC.

Those two improvements will take your system from mediocre to top-quality sound. The improvement will be profound and very satisfying.

(my system, FYI, consists of the 105, a Audio Research LS-26 preamp, the M6PRX amp, and Vandersteen Treo speakers...and MMF-7 turntable with Benz Micro Ace cartridge and Musical Fidelity M1VINL phono stage).

caphill
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Hello Commsysman thank you for your suggestions and quick reply. I figured that I won't be upgrading much if at all by going from the Rotel RB-1080 amp to the newer model RB-1582 Mkll amp. So far I've been pretty happy with the performance of my setup but I'm up to upgrading my entire components slowly starting early next year. I'm saving up for the upcoming upgrade next year. I've been a fan of Rotel gears cause in my opinion Rotel makes great musical sounding equipments for the price. Great value for what it is. I think the Rotel will blow away Marantz, Denon, Integra, Yamaha and other major Japanese mass market AV manufacturers in audio performance. Btw I like your setup. I would love to get those Audio Research gears someday when money allows. Fyi I'm only using my Oppo 103 as a disc transport to play cd. First I was thinking to get the Rotel RDD-1580 standalone DAC but decided not to cause I'm up to upgrading my components soon. I'm going to get the newly released Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp processor but will still use my Rotel amp for a little bit longer until I can get enough money saved up to upgrade the amp later on. So I'm going to upgrade the pre-amp first before I can upgrade the amp. Although this Classe Sigma SSP is a 5.1 pre-amp processor but it is actually a high end stereo pre-amp with the rest of the channels as extra gifts. This unit truly shines in two channel performance for music. It has high quality dual differential DACs for two channels (front channels). Its two channel performance for music is identical to the Classe SSP-800 but the SSP-800 costs almost twice as much as the Sigma SSP pre-amp. This Sigma pre pro has an analog bypass mode or digital bypass which allows you to bypass the DSP and all other digital processing circuits when used as stereo pre-amp. Its two channel circuits are completely isolated from the digital processing circuit boards and the rest of the other channels. This Sigma pre-amp comes with its matching Sigma Amp2 & Amp5. I will eventually want to get the Amp5 (5 channel amp) for possible future home theater application since I already have the Oppo. I just need to get a matching B&W CMC2 S2 center channel and CM6 bookshelf for surrounds in the future. Eventhough the Sigma combo both use class D circuits but they do not sound like typical class D gears. That's why these two units are compact and light because they implement class D design but they are not like average typical class D products. I did audition these Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp & its matching Sigma Amp2 at my local hifi shop and they blew me away. The level of transparency and musical nuances. Sounded strikingly clean and transparent. Anyways, these would be a significant upgrades from my Rotel gears. What do you think? I'll be still using my Oppo 103 as a disc transport and will be using the DACs in the Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp. Will upgrade all my interconnects as well when I get the Classe Sigma. I'm also thinking of going digital streaming. So I'm considering to get either Linn or Naim digital streamers where I can be able to rip all my cd collections in to its server. I'm open to any other recommendations. I'll be doing hi rez as well when that happens. I think good quality music streamers like Linn or Naim or Audio Research would sound much better than average high end cd players. Am I right? But I'm keeping my Oppo to watch blu ray movies and will use the streamer for two channel music. I did audition to both Linn & Naim streamer at my local hifi shop. I think it was Linn Magik but couldn't remember the model from Naim. They both sounded spectacular but slightly preferred the Linn. They both have built-in DACs (high quality DACs). Do you have any other recommendations or suggestions? I'm open to anything. Thanks in advance.

caphill
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Hello Commsysman thank you for your suggestions and quick reply. I figured that I won't be upgrading much if at all by going from the Rotel RB-1080 amp to the newer model RB-1582 Mkll amp. So far I've been pretty happy with the performance of my setup but I'm up to upgrading my entire components slowly starting early next year. I'm saving up for the upcoming upgrade next year. I've been a fan of Rotel gears cause in my opinion Rotel makes great musical sounding equipments for the price. Great value for what it is. I think the Rotel will blow away Marantz, Denon, Integra, Yamaha and other major Japanese mass market AV manufacturers in audio performance. Btw I like your setup. I would love to get those Audio Research gears someday when money allows. Fyi I'm only using my Oppo 103 as a disc transport to play cd. First I was thinking to get the Rotel RDD-1580 standalone DAC but decided not to cause I'm up to upgrading my components soon. I'm going to get the newly released Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp processor but will still use my Rotel amp for a little bit longer until I can get enough money saved up to upgrade the amp later on. So I'm going to upgrade the pre-amp first before I can upgrade the amp. Although this Classe Sigma SSP is a 5.1 pre-amp processor but it is actually a high end stereo pre-amp with the rest of the channels as extra gifts. This unit truly shines in two channel performance for music. It has high quality dual differential DACs for two channels (front channels). Its two channel performance for music is identical to the Classe SSP-800 but the SSP-800 costs almost twice as much as the Sigma SSP pre-amp. This Sigma pre pro has an analog bypass mode or digital bypass which allows you to bypass the DSP and all other digital processing circuits when used as stereo pre-amp. Its two channel circuits are completely isolated from the digital processing circuit boards and the rest of the other channels. This Sigma pre-amp comes with its matching Sigma Amp2 & Amp5. I will eventually want to get the Amp5 (5 channel amp) for possible future home theater application since I already have the Oppo. I just need to get a matching B&W CMC2 S2 center channel and CM6 bookshelf for surrounds in the future. Eventhough the Sigma combo both use class D circuits but they do not sound like typical class D gears. That's why these two units are compact and light because they implement class D design but they are not like average typical class D products. I did audition these Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp & its matching Sigma Amp2 at my local hifi shop and they blew me away. The level of transparency and musical nuances. Sounded strikingly clean and transparent. Anyways, these would be a significant upgrades from my Rotel gears. What do you think? I'll be still using my Oppo 103 as a disc transport and will be using the DACs in the Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp. Will upgrade all my interconnects as well when I get the Classe Sigma. I'm also thinking of going digital streaming. So I'm considering to get either Linn or Naim digital streamers where I can be able to rip all my cd collections in to its server. I'm open to any other recommendations. I'll be doing hi rez as well when that happens. I think good quality music streamers like Linn or Naim or Audio Research would sound much better than average high end cd players. Am I right? But I'm keeping my Oppo to watch blu ray movies and will use the streamer for two channel music. I did audition to both Linn & Naim streamer at my local hifi shop. I think it was Linn Magik but couldn't remember the model from Naim. They both sounded spectacular but slightly preferred the Linn. They both have built-in DACs (high quality DACs). Do you have any other recommendations or suggestions? I'm open to anything. Thanks in advance.

bierfeldt
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Upgrading the Rotel seems like a waste, especially if you plan on stepping up to Classe.

That Sigma SSP has built in streaming capabilities so a streamer would be redundant. It accepts all major formats and seems to have a pretty sweet DAC. It has Dirac Live which is supposed to be a great room EQ for multi-channel. The Stereophile review raves about it and at $5K, there is a lot to like about this unit. If I ever upgrade my pre/pro this unit will be on the list.

Regarding the amp, their are certainly multiple choices for 5 and 7 channel amps. That being said, if your really like the Classe and its in your budget, perfect. Classe is B&Ws sister company and has been owned by B&W since 2001. There is a good argument to be made that they are sonically well matched to each other.

Recently, a bunch of manufacturers have introduced incredibly good sounding Class D amps. I own 2 Class D units, love them and both are highly recommended by Stereophile and/or The Absolute Sound. Don't worry about it being class D.

One alternative that is worth looking at is the NAD Master Series N17 Pre/Pro and the N27 Power Amp. They are $5499 and $3999 respectively but the NAD power amp is pretty exceptional. The biggest strike against the NAD is it lacks built in streaming services like that of the Classe. It would require a separate streamer. The NAD M50 Master Series Streamer is $2499 and would be the obvious match and would make Classe both more compact (2 units vs 3) and a better value ($10K vs $12K).

If you didn't mind components from different manufactures, it might be worth trying out the Classe pre/pro with the NAD power amp. If those matched sonically with your speakers, you could save a $1000 which you could put toward something else.

caphill
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I don't mind having components from different manufacturers. I did audition to the two channel NAD Master Series pre-amp hooked up to the NAD Master Series two channel power amp last year at my local hifi shop here. Couldn't remember the models. They sounded fabolous. They are also on my wish list for next year. But when it comes to pre-amp I was more impressed with the Classe Sigma SSP pre-amp sonically. But the overall performance from those combos were excellent. Yes, the Classe is indeed part of B&W group and so is Rotel. Classe is like Rotel bigger sibling. I might be on the lookout for used NAD Master Series pre and power amp combo next year. I should be able to find one on either Audiogon or somewhere. But the Classe Sigma is almost not possible to find a used one cause the Sigma Series just came out this year. I didn't know if the Sigma SSP pre-amp has a streaming capability. When I auditioned to the Sigma combo they were playing cd from the Oppo 103 used as a transport feeding the Sigma pre-amp via coaxial digital. The Sigma SSP pre-amp uses high end dual differential DACs for stereo performance for the front channels. Did anyone have experiences with the Ayre gears at all? Anyways, the Rotel isn't bad at all in my opinion. Indeed the Rotel is not in the same league as with the Classe or McIntosh or Linn or Naim or even the NAD Master Series. Rotel IMO is in the same league as the NAD (excluding NAD Master Series), Arcam & lower end Rega. For sure the Rotel is a step up from Marantz or Denon or Pioneer or Integra and other major Japanese mass market av manufacturers in audio performance, not features. I honestly found the Rotel separate pre & power amp combo to be very musical sounding esp for the price. Especially when paired with B&W speakers. They have great synergy together imho. That's what I currently have at home : Rotel RC-1570 stereo pre-amp & Rotel RB-1080 stereo power amp driving my B&W CM10 speakers. I've always had Rotel equipments in the last 13 yrs or so. My Rotel RB 1080 power amp is 13 yrs old. Bought it brand new 13 yrs ago. I think it's time for me to move on and upgrade to higher quality components. I'm also in the process of upgrading my interconnects. I think I'm gonna stick with either Transparent cables or Chord. I found Chord to be a better value compared to Transparent Cable. One thing I like about Chord is their cables do not color the tonal of your system. Btw Bierfeldt what setups do you have at home? Thanks again for the reply and inputs and suggestions. Much appreciated.

bierfeldt
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My primary listening system is an Ayre Acoustics K-5xeMp preamp with a Rogue Audio Hydra Power Amp. I am using it to drive Revel Performa3 M105 standmounts with a Sunfire Tru Sub. I am in the process of updating my sources and am planning on getting the Marantz Reference NA 11-S1 network player and DAC. It gets an A+ rating here and is maybe the best sounding DACs I have heard. I currently have a Marantz NA7004 Network player / DAC and a Marantz CD player I use as a transport. I also have a Rega RP3 turntable with an Exact2 cartridge along with a Vincent PHO-8 phono stage. I am going to move the Vincent to my home theatre and am in the market for a new phono stage. I am leaning toward the Ayre P-5xe

My home theatre is a Marantz AV7005 Pre/Pro with a Marantz MM8003. I currently am using a PS3 as a Blu-Ray and CD transport and have a Rega P3-24 with an Elys2 cartridge. I have Sunfire HRS SAT speakers with a Sunfire HRS 12 subwoofer.

In my bedroom, I have a Marantz CR510 network receiver and a pair of speakers I built myself using Monacor Drivers and Dayton parts.

Regarding Ayre Acoustics equipment, I am a huge fan. I am a few weeks into my new two channel system. I got a killer deal on the Rogue Hydra which is a Class D tube Hybrid and their TubeD circuit is unique to them. I have listened to about 10 different preamps and am blown away by how awesome the Ayre is. I also spent a fair amount of time listening to the Ayre V-5xe power amp which is also a killer amp. There diamond circuit is unique and Ayre equipment sounds very smooth and is stupidly quiet. Ayre's sound is a touch warm yet ultra detailed. I personally think it would be a perfect compliment to the CM10s.

For modestly priced preamps, I like the Ayre K-5xeMP which I bought $4350, the Rogue Audio RP5 $3500 sounds solid state despite being a tube unit and Athena $5000 warm traditional tube sound and the Musical Fidelity M8 pre for $5000 a bit forward sounds similar to Classe

For power amps, the Musical Fidelity M6 PRX is amazing at $3500 and I believe is 250w, the Rogue Audio Medusa is the big brother to the Hydra at 200w and is $4K. The Ayre V-5xe is 150w and is $6K.

The one really cool thing about the Rogue equipment is that you can roll in different tubes and adjust the sound without sounding rolled off like old school tube equipment.

caphill
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Hi Bierfeldt you mentioned about upgrading your streamer in your primary listening room. Did you ever get Linn Klimax a listen? Sounded fantastic. One of the best sounding streamer I've ever heard. It comes with external separate power supply. You should give it a listen. I'm sure it will blow away the Marantz Refetence NA 11-S1 considerably. Linn makes really great products and one of the best sounding streamers on the market. I would highly recommend Linn Klimax if you can afford it. Another considerably less expensive option would be Linn Magik. This is also a great product especially for the price. This too imo will outperform the Marantz NA 11-S1 by quite a margin. Speaking of Ayre.....since you are a huge fan.....Ayre makes one of the best sounding universal disc player / bluray player at $10k. This player is based on Oppo player. They use the Oppo interface, transport and video components but Ayre built their own power supplies, analog audio section (DAC) and digital audio circuitry with its own built master audio clocks. They use Oppo's firmwares etc. But this is not an Oppo's duplicate player. Only the Oppo's video processing components and disc loader transport were left untouched and everything else are Ayre's. I'm pretty sure this would be a major significant upgrade from your Sony PS3 in both video and audio performances.

bierfeldt
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I did listen to a Linn Klimax and the new Sony unit when I was demoing Ayre equipment. The Majik is out since it lacks XLR outputs, the Akurate would be my choice and it is twice the price of the Marantz and has fewer features. Additionally, I found the linn sounded a touch cool and more English than I would like.

I have a dealer just up the street from my office who is a B&W house that also sells Marantz. I had a pretty extensive conversation with them around preamps and integrated amps along with streamers. The conversation was interesting in that they are a displaying dealer of Marantz's reference line and they like to use it as it provides a contrast to Rotel in sound. Rotel and Classe to me are forward, ultra detailed but are slightly cool in their sound which they agreed with. Marantz is less forward resulting in a slight perception of a decline in clarity which shows up in their signature sound that is undeniably warmth. I tell you that to tell you this, these same guys highly recommend the Marantz reference player with Classe because it is an amazing DAC with a strong feature set, but the signature warmth helps offset the touch of coolness you can get from Classe equipment. I listened to the Marantz with some high res files and it was jaw dropping. I have had some wow moments, but this Marantz DAC fed into Classe pre and power driving B&W diamonds was pretty amazing. Still a touch cool for my taste but I could probably be happy. When you combine an A+ rating in Stereophile with an amazing review vs a $40k DAC, a recco from a high end dealer and a personal experience that reinforces the review and the recco, I feel real good about that selection, especially for the modest $3500 price tag.

I clearly like a warmer sound and my amp, The Rogue Audio Hydra is undeniably cool sounding. I know this sounds odd for a tube unit but it is this TubeD circuit. On occasion, using Marantz's single ended DAC, I am hearing a few hard edges I don't like. If I went with a cooler digital source, I am not sure I would like my system anymore. In fact, I am toying with rolling in some Mullard NOS tubes to see if I can get rid of those hard edges but am thinking I should update my sources first.

Now, regarding my home theatre, that is a completely different story. I only paid $7K for amp, preamp, speakers, stands and subwoofer. Dropping an Ayre universal player into that would be like dropping a Ferrari engine into a Honda Accord. I am considering upgrading to an Oppo but anything beyond that is an absolute waste until I upgrade the pre/pro and power amp. I am not touching it until I finish my 2 channel system and I intend to get a new network player/DAC, phono stage and turntable along with a new CD transport which is projecting to be about $11K based on the units I am looking at. That is going to get stretched out over 2 years. Additionally, for home theatre which is what that room is used for 90% of the time, it is fabulous as it stands. I thought I was going to use it as both audio and theatre but I was wrong. It is really just a theatre room.

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Hello Bierfeldt, I'm just wondering how did the Sony streamer perform? Did they use an outboard DAC or a built-in DAC in the Sony unit? This Sony streamer received a very good review from either Stereophile or one of those hifi audio magazines or sites. Couldn't remember which one it was. Just curious. I believed the Sony streamer retails for $2k?

bierfeldt
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The Sony unit sounded great. I spent about 45 minutes listening to it. I was impressed with the level of detail and I am sure it is why I bought the Ayre preamp as that is what I was really evaluating. My issue with it is that it lacks digital inputs to be able to use it as an extrenal DAC. If you are looking for just a simple streamer with built in hard drive it a superb value.

Doing a little more digging, Ayre just cam out with a DAC and headphone amp called the Codex. At $1500, it is a strong value and has both Toslink and USB imputs. I am considering it with an Aurender streamer. The headphone amp functionality makes it really appealing.

caphill
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Hey Bierfeldt, just curious. Did you end up upgrading your streamer? If you did, which one did you get?
Btw, regarding the Classe Sigma SSP preamp processor, this unit does not have any automatic room correction software but it does have a manual parametric eq. Because you mentioned earlier that the Classe Sigma was equipped with DiracLive. All Classe & Rotel pre pros don't have automatic room correction software like Audeyssey etc. But they do have manual parametric eq which can achieve much better results than those automatic room correction thingy such as Audeyssey if you have the appropriate tools and equipment and know what you're doing. I did get to listen to the NAD Master Series M17 pre pro with its matching power amp. Sonically the Classe Sigma combo destroyed the NAD M17 combo, especially in two-channel performance. These two combos are similarly priced but the Classe Sigma combo were superior in two-channel performance by quite a margin. The Classe Sigma combo at $10k and the NAD M17 combo at $9500. But the NAD is equipped with Audeyssey room correction. I think I've made up my mind about my next upgrade. I will definitely get the Classe Sigma. Kal Rubinson from Stereophile stated that the Classe Sigma SSP preamp processor sounded like a high end dedicated stereo pre-amp than any pre pro in its price range when it comes to stereo music playback. The fact is that the Sigma preamp has 90% of its bigger brother SSP 800's performance in two-channel, but the the SSP 800 costs almost twice as much as the Sigma SSP pre pro. As for my cd playback upgrade, I think I know someone here who's selling his 6 year old Chord cd player for only a small fraction of its original retail price due to his unexpected circumstances. He has to go back to Japan for good next week so he has to sell his gear asap and he's willing to bargain. So I think I'm probably going to get that first.

rrstesiak
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All:

If anyone finds themselves surrounded by $3-$5,000 separates but in need of a "streamer", also known as a music server, I have designed and built my own for under $500.

My design is based on the Bryston BDP series ($3,000, and no DAC).. As such, it uses the exact same iPad/iPhone/android freely available application to control it. (App shows album artwork and organizes collection)

Of important note, I also value aesthetics and have sourced a very understated and elegant case.. Here is a picture before LCD is mounted:

Image hosted by servimg.com

Without going into detail, I consider my design to already be competitive with commercially available (and costly) offerings.

The main drawback to this approach is a high level of computer science and moderate electronics knowledge is required. I've found though a lot of audiophiles do also possess these skills and so suggest it here as a possibility for the technically inclined.

I realize this is not for everyone, but figured it couldn't hurt to share it so people are aware of the DIY route to true and honest audiophile class components.

Regards,

Ron

ps. My DAC of choice after many months of research and 30 day trials is the Bryston BDA-1.
pps. I believe my strong background in computer science, Electrical Engineering, and scientific method allow me to build a seriously worthy component here. To be very realistic, I do not possess the knowledge and experience to attempt other audiophile grade components such as preamps and amplifiers. I am also being absolutely truthful in my facts and hope at least one person is compelled by this approach.

caphill
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Hi Rrstesiak, are those 2 USB inputs on the front faclate? What are the other inputs? Ethernet LAN I pressumed. Does itjust e both coaxial & optical digital outputs on the back? Or just coaxial out? I like the simplicity.

bierfeldt
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I am likely to be wait till the spring to upgrade my streamer and phono stage. I have decided that it am going to try the Cambridge Azur 851N first. It has all the features I am looking for and at $1799, it is worth an audition. Also, one of the guys here has it paired with a Vincent Power amp and loves it and the first person to review it out on Crutchfield said it was outstanding paired with an Ayre Preamp. I am hopeful enough to buy it on Crutchfields return policy.

Glad to hear you got to demo the NAD master series. I find hearing things I don't like helps me better understand and appreciate what I do like. Good luck to you.

rrstesiak
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USB 3.0 input on front
BNC digital output and Ethernet input at back of chassis

The great news: it is completely customizable to anyone's needs (AES XLR, optical, RCA coax, etc)

Best Regards,

Ron

caphill
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Bierfeldt, what phono pre-amp are you currently using? I don't have a turntable but would love to have one someday, maybe after my pre/power amp and digital source upgrade is complete. I will have to save up money again to get a good quality turntable, tonearm, cartridge & phone preamp. It will take me a while to save up for that cause I really want to get a really good one. I have limited funds. My dad used to have the Nakamichi TX1000 self centering turntable player back in the 80's. It had two tonearms. The other tonearm served as a self-centering mechanism. This was a very rare turntable and was limited in production worldwide. It was designed and built by Niro Nakamichi himself. Nakamichi only produced around 300 units worldwide. It did cost around $9k USD in 1985. It was quite a bit for back then. It was a really great sounding turntable player. I couldn't remember what he had for the phone pre-amp. I was too young back then to know much about hifi. I remembered he had Mark Levinson stereo pre-amp and a pair of Mark Levinson monoblock amps driving a pair of Infinity reference speakers. Infinity speakers were very different back then. All I could remember was that the whole system sounded beautiful.
My dad used to be a big fan of Nakamichi. He also had the Nakamichi 1000 II cassette deck player before he bought the Dragon cassette player. The Dragon replaced the 1000 II but he said the 1000 II sonically outperformed the Dragon. Both the 1000 II & the Dragon did not sound like an ordinary cassette deck player. Their performances were on par with or even better than reel master audio tape players.
I missed those days during the reign of Nakamichi era.

bierfeldt
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At the moment, I have a Vincent Audio PHO-8 phono stage with a Rega RP3 with an Exact2 cartridge. For the amount of money I spent, it is a really amazing value. The PHO-8 is $300 and IMO (and The Absolute Sounds opinion) you need to spend a lot more to beat it.

When I upgrade, my plan is to get the Ayre P5xe. Sonically, it will match nicely with my K5xeMP preamp and it doesn't have an on/off switch so it will be easier for my wife to use and will blend aesthetically a little better. I got out to a dealer who has the Ayre and the Parasound JC-3+. I was able the listen to them side by side and struggled to hear a difference. If anything, the Ayre was maybe a touch quieter but that could also be my bias in favor of Ayre talking. Those two units are freaking amazing.

For turntable, I am torn between the Rega RP8 with an Alphetta and a VPI Classic with a Clearaudio Maestro v2 which is the exact table I listened to demoing the Ayre and Parasound phono stages. The other cartridge I am considering is the Dynavector 17D3. My budget just won't support a Linn.

The Ayre Phono Stage is $3250, the JC3+ is $3K, the RP8 with an Alphetta is $4K, the VPI Classic is $3K and the Clearaudio Maestro is $1200 while the Dynavector is $1250.

Regarding the equipment your dad had, that sounds really amazing. I own a pair of Infinity Kappa 8.1s from the mid 90s and know what you mean about Infinity. I find it disapointing what Harman has done with that brand though I do love my Revels which seems to fill that niche in the market. Nakamichi gear is amazing. That sounds like an awesome system.

Good luck. I will tell you that it is worth having a conversation with a few dealers. The guys at Needledoctor, Kevin at Upsale Audio (who may know more about tube gear than anyone on the planet) along with two of my local dealers helped educate me and got me to my current rig and have helped guide me to my planned purchases. Their advice was extremely valuable since so few dealers actually show equipment that you can demo. My local dealers have VPI, ProJect, Linn and Clearaudio and show one table from each manufacturer so unless you get lucky, you have no hope of hearing what you want and have to have faith they can guide you to what you want.

caphill
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Hey there Bierfeldt, just wanna let you know that few days ago I finally bought a used Chord One cd player from a local guy here who had to go back to Japan for goid unexpectedly. The original retail price was $8000 USD but he sold it to me for $3500 and apparently he's had it for only 4 yrs. This is the least expensive cd player from Chord Electronics. Their Red Standard Mk lll cd player costs around $28k and their Red Reference Mk lll cd player costs around $45k+. Chord Electronics makes great outstanding high end audio equipments but they are really expensive. Their standalone stereo DAC costs around $14k. Anyways, I hooked it up to my equipments and it sounded fabolous. I connected it via its xlr balanced output in to the xlr balanced input on the Rotel RC-1570 pre-amp and another xlr balance cables between the Rotel pre to the Rotel power amp. The Chord One cd player and all Chord equipments are fully balanced designs. Their circuitry are fully balanced but the Rotel gears aren't. Eventhough most Rotel gears have xlr balanced connections but their circuits aren't fully balanced. None of the Rotel, NAD (including the Master Series), Marantz, Integra / Onkyo, Yamaha, Cambridge Audio and other comparable products have fully balanced circuitry. The Classe, McIntosh, Chord, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Linn, Naim, Krell, Dan D'Agostino and other comparable products, their circuitry designs are fully balanced. At the moment I'm still using the Rotel pre-amp & power amp and am going to get the Classe Sigma combo at the end of the year. Can't wait. I'm sure the system will perform even better sonically when I get the Sigma combo. But I'm keeping my Oppo bdp-103 to watch bluray movies only. It'll be connected to the Sigma pre pro via hdmi. I will have to get a matching center channel speaker for my B&W CM10. I'm going to get the B&W CM C2 S2 center channel and the B&W CM6 for surround. I'm going to fo 5.1 setup later when I get the Sigma combo. As for a subwoofer, I might go for one of the JL Audio sub. The reason why I wanna get a high quality pre pro that does really well in two-channel music playback and the one that does not cost in five-digit range. The Classe Sigma pre pro seems to fit well price wise and performance wise. I do prioritize on stereo music playback performance and the Sigma pre pro really shines in that regard. Cause financially I just can't support two separate systems or setups, one for two-channel and the other one for home theater. I do wanna get the best of both within my budget. I do wanna have a home theater system. That's why I bought the Oppo player in the first place. My other option would be to get a high quality dedicated analog stereo pre-amp and a pre pro and use the stereo pre-amp's ht pass through or ht bypass or just simply the Aux input on the stereo preamp as a unity gain. But this option would cost quite a bit more unlesd if I can get a used high quality dedicated stereo analog preamp and a used good quality pre pro. As for the amp, I would still be getting the Sigma Amp5 (5-channel amp) or possibly the Rotel RMB-1585 multi-channel power amp (5-channel). I did hear this amp connected to the Sigma pre pro at my local hifi shop and they sounded fabolous together. This Rotel RMB-1585 ($3000) is a high grade multi-channel amp with 200 wpc @ 8 ohms (continuous) with all channels driven. Its power outputs are conservatively rated and measured at low distortion levels. This amp actually outputs more like 245 wpc @ 8 ohms or 400 wpc @ 4 ohms. This is a very capable and competent amp and is rich musically as well and very transparent and smooth and warm sounding. It sounded very different from my 13 year old Rotel RB-1080 power amp. It's more refined than my old Rotel amp. This amp has 2 huge massive British made slit foil main toroidal transformers stacked up with 16 individual capacitors for each channel. I figured I could save the $2000 if I get this amp compared to the Sigma Amp5 ($5000). I can happily live with this pairing (Classe Sigma pre pro & Rotel RMB-1585 multi-channel amp). Or I might as well just get the Sigma Amp5 to pair with the Sigma pre pro. I will let you know what I will decide on at the end of the year.

bierfeldt
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It sounds like you are putting together an awfully sweet system. I look forward to hearing what you finally settle on. Sorry your friend has to leave the country but what an awesome CD player.

Thank for your thoughts above. I made the incorrect assumptiont dual DAC chips means fully balanced. You are right, the Cambridge and Marantz units don't appear to be fully balanced. That being said, I don't believe my power amp is fully balanced, but even then, the balanced inputs do make a difference and are quieter. I think I am still going to give the Cambridge a try first but that won't be till bonus time in the spring.

Good luck and thanks again for your thoughts.

caphill
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He had a situation back in Japan that forced him to be there indefinitely. He had a spectacular system while he was here. He had all Chord components : Chord stereo pre-amp and a pair of Chord monoblock power amps driving a pair of Wilson Audio Sasha II speakers. He spent over $50k on just interconnects, power cords and 10 foot pair of speaker cables. He had all Transparent Cables (high end lines) in his system. The system performed flawlessly. Sounded spectacular. I wish I had that kind of money to burn. I just don't. I have a limited budget. The most I can afford would be Classe Sigma pre / power amp combo. I have just bought a pair of Transparent Music Link Ultra xlr balanced interconnects to connect from my Chord cd player to the pre-amp. I actually just upgraded my coaxial digital interconnect that I used to connect from the Oppo 103 to the pre-amp, but I'm not using my Oppo to play cd any longer so I won't be needing the coaxial digital cable anymore. I will have to sell it now. If you or someone you know might be looking or interested in buying a slightly used Transparent Premium coaxial interconnect (rca single ended) i meter long, please let me know. I bought it brand new from my local hifi shop that happens to be a Transparent Cable authorized dealer. The msrp is $725 for 1 meter length. I can sell it for $500. I bought it like 6 weeks ago. I previously had an Audioquest Carbon coaxial digital. It made a difference sonically going from the Audioquest Carbon to Transparent Premium. I found the Audioquest Carbon to be on the brighter side of the spectrum and the Transparent Premium to be very well balanced tonally with no coloration and the sound was smoother with better clarity and soundstage depth overall. Anyways, regarding the fully balanced circuitry. I'm sure the Ayre products should be fully balanced. And dual DAC chips means that one DAC chip used for each channel and this is the same as a true differential DAC configuration in its each individual signal path. However, dual differential DACs means that two DAC chips used for each individual channel in its each individual signal path. Has nothing to do with the circuits being necessarily fully & truly balanced. Fully balanced circuitry are also found in a power amp, pre-amp, integrated amp, pre pro or standalone DAC. I think most likely I will be getting the Classe Sigma pre pro and the Sigma Amp5 at the end of the year. The Sigma pre pro has xlr balanced output for its front channels only and these are fully & truly balanced circuitry. The rest of the channels have only rca unbalanced outputs. This pre pro has one set of xlr balanced input. The same is true for its matching Sigma Amp5. Only the front channels have xlr balanced input and it is a fully balanced as well. That's how the Classe managed to keep the cost down on the Sigma series. To make all the channels fully balanced would have cost lot more money to make so consequently the unit would have cost a lot more. The Classe decided to only optimize the Sigma's front channels for optimal stereo music playback. I think the Sigma pre pro uses two DAC chips for each of its front channels only and are dual true diffetential configuration but the rest of the channels aren't. The Sigma pre pro priority performance design is its stereo front channels. Think of the Sigma pre pro as someone who wants to have a true high fidelity or high performance stereo pre-amp who happens to have a tv and a blueray player in the living room thus requires surround sounds as well. That's why the Sigma series fits my needs perfectly because I do want a decent home theater setup that does perform flawlessly in two channels.

Allen Fant
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Thanks! for the update- caphill.

I am very familiar w/ pre-Gen5 Transparent cables/cords. You made a very wise choice there. As you move up their product chain, you will be musically rewarded. Anyone whom has auditioned the OPUS line knows my suggestion.

caphill
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I totally agree. I'm with you Allen. I use Transparent interconnects & ac power cords and Chord Signature Reference speaker cables. I have moved up in their product chain and the result is pretty rewarding.

caphill
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Hello Bierfeldt, I wanna keep you updated on my system upgrades. Turns out that I'm not going to get the Classe Sigma combo as planned. Due to recent passing of my dad so I inherited his house, all his assets & all his awesome hifi equipments cause I'm his only child. I'm selling my B&W CM10 & my Rotel separates but I'm keeping my Chord One cd player that I bought recently from my friend. (remember?). I'm going to put my Chord One cd player in used to be my dad's master bedroom but it is mine now. So I got to move in to his house and get to enjoy all his hifi gears. He actually has purchased new upgraded equipments & speakers lately mainly with his two-channel gears. So they are mine now. So my two-channel setup now consists of :
* Chord Red Reference MKiii cd player (flagship Chord cd player).
* Linn Klimax DS streamer/DAC (this is just a strictly a DAC/streamer not the integrated one).
* Linn Klimax separate power supply unit for the Klimax streamer/DAC.
* VPI Classic Direct Drive turntable with outboard power supply. It includes JMW Classic 3d tonearm. ($30k including the tonearm).
* Lyra Atlas cartridge ($9k).
* Dan D'Agostino Momentum phono pre-amp. The power supply unit is in a separate chassis.
* Dan D'Agostino Momentum line-stage stereo pre-amp. The power supply is also in a separate chassis. Separate power supplies for control & audio circuitry so that the control circuits are completely isolated from the audio circuits.
* Dan D'Agostino Momentum monoblock power amps (pair).
* Wilson Audio Sasha 2 (pair).
Speaker cables by Transparent Opus MM SC (10 ft pair) with spade terminations. All XLR balanced interconnects by Transparent Reference MM BAL. Transparent Reference phono cable, Transparent Opus MM RCA IC. All power cords by Transparent Reference Powerlink MM2. Power line conditioner & isolator & power distributor by Transparent Reference lines. My dad had a lot of works done with all the wall outlets throughout the house in order to make sure that his hifi equipments perform optimally.
In a separate room, my 5.1 home theater setup now consists of :
* Oppo bdp-105 Darbee blu-ray player. He bought it last year.
* Classe SSP 800 preamp surround processor.
* A pair of Classe CA-M600 monoblock power amps driving the front speakers.
* McIntosh MC303 3-channel power amp driving the center channel and the surround speakers.
* B&W 802D for front speakers.
* B&W HTM 2D center channel speaker.
* B&W 804D used as surround speakers.
* JL Audio Gotham subwoofer.
Transparent Premium hdmi cables (2). All XLR balanced interconnects by Transparent Reference XL BAL. All speaker cables by Transparent Reference XL SC with spade terminations. Transparent Reference subwoofer kits. All power cords by Transparent Reference Powerlink MM2. Transparent Reference series power line conditioner, isolator & distributor.
The master bedroom two-channel setup consists of :
* Linn Klimax DS streamer/DAC (again this is strictly a DAC/streamer only, not the integrated one).
* Linn Klimax separate power supply unit for the Klimax streamer.
* Chord One cd player. This is the one I recently bought on my own from my friend who had to leave the country permanently.
* Simaudio Moon Evolution 700i integrated amp. This is a flagship integrated amp from Simaudio. It implements a dual mono design.
* Wilson Audio Duette stand mount speakers.
Speaker cables by Transparent Reference XL SC with spade terminations. All XLR balanced interconnects by Transparent Reference XL BAL. All power cords by Transparent Powerlink MM2. Transparent Reference series power line conditioner & isolator.
That is pretty much my current setup. They were my dad's but they are mine now.

bierfeldt
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Caphill,

I am very sorry to hear about your father's passing. Since you clearly shared that passion, hopefully having the opportunity to listen to his system will deliver fond memories of a passion you shared.

Separately, as a fellow audiophile, holy crap! Your dad was clearly passionate about this hobby and had fabulous taste in equipment.

caphill
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Bierfeldt, thanks for the support. Greatly appreciated.

caphill
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Yeah, my dad was a perfectionist or at least he tried to be one. Things that were normally acceptable to us might not be acceptable to him. He wanted everything to be perfect. I learned some thing from him when it comes to hifi and I'm glad I did. He was very passionate about this hobby. And he was able to afford those super expensive equipments and cables and I just didn't have the money to be able to afford them. Anyways, he actually just purchased the Dan D'Agostino phono pre-amp and the Wilson Audio Sasha 2 speakers this year. He previously had the Sasha 1. There's quite significant improvements in performance going from the Sasha 1 to the Sasha 2. I have listened to both at my dad's before quite frequently when he was still alive. And the price increase was also quite large.

caphill
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Happy new year Bierfeldt! Hope you had a good holiday. I've done some upgrades with my bedroom setup recently. I've upgraded the integrated amp. Just bought Dan D'Agostino Momentum integrated amp recently and I am selling the Simaudio Moon Evolution 700i integrated amp. I've also upgraded the Wilson Audio Duette stand mount speakers. I previously had the Duette series 1 and recently I've just bought a pair of the Wilson Audio Duette series 2 stand mount speakers. The overall improvements in performance is pretty drastic, especially going from the Simaudio Moon Evolution 700i integrated amp to Dan D'Agostino Momentum integrated amp. The Wilson Audio Duette seties 2 is also a significant improvement in performance over the Duette series 1, that's why the Duette series 2 cost almost twice as much as the Duette series 1. As for the integrated amp, I guessed it isn't fair to compare the Simaudio Moon Evolution to D'Agostino Momentum. They are totally not in the same leagues at all in terms of performance and price. Don't get me wrong, the Simaudio Moon Evolution is a phenomenal product but the D'Agostino Momentum is extra ordinary. Sonically speaking there's nothing to be faulted in its performance. Give it an excellent signal source component and this amp will make sure to reproduce the truest musical signal elements convincingly. Definitely worths an upgrade. I'm still working on upgrading the floorstanding speakers in my main two-channel listening room. Right now I have a pair of Wilson Audio Sasha series 2 floorstanders. These are excellent sounding speakers especially driven by a pair of Dan D'Agostino Momentum monoblock power amps and D'Agostino Momentum linestage analog preamp but I think I might upgrade to something better maybe in the line of YG Acoustics speaker lineup. Not sure which model yet. Or I might be getting something different. Or I might even as well keep the Wilson Audio Sasha 2 for a little longer. Don't know yet. I will decide soon. I will let you know later. Again, happy new year.

bierfeldt
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The whole D'Agostino Krell thing is all very unfortunate. I have live in CT on and off for the past 16 years so I have a soft spot in my heart for Krell and know people who were impacted in that 2009 shakeup. Krell is definitely more accessible these days, but....at what price?

I will say I have never heard a D'Agostino product but have to assume it is extraordinary. And i can see your point that it seems like comparing that Simaudion unit to the D'Agostino is like comparing a BMW M5 to a Ferarri. The M5 delivers amazing performance but it ain't a Ferarri.

I have been thoroughly impressed with everything Wilson produces but will admit I don't get to spend a lot of time listening to them. It really sounds fabulous and I hope you enjoy.

caphill
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My dad had Krell reference monoblock power amps & Krell reference linestage preamp before he purchased the D'Agostino Momentum gears and the D'Agostino Momentum monoblock amps & linestage preamp are quite a bit better than the Krells. But the Krells were still outstanding I think but were no match to Dan's own current Momentum stuff. They are incredible. I've never heard any other audio components that perform better than the D'Agostino Momentum gears. I'm sure that there are other gears out there that perform better than the D'Agostino Momentum stuff but I'I've just never heard or experienced one before. The flagship Esoteric reference components will probably be comporable in performance to the D'Agostino Momentum stuff. The Soulution gears might even be better than the D'Agostino Momentum stufg....again I don't know and I can't say for sure. It's hard to make a judgement when it comes to that level high up in the stratosphere. It all comes down to personal preferences really. They are all phenomenal.
However, the Simaudio Moon Evolution series are also awesome but I feel that they aren't in the same leagues with the D'Agostino Momentum or the Esoterics or the Soulution performance wise and price wise. It's totally not fair to compare the Moon Evolution series (eventhough it is the reference or flagship series from the Simaudio Moon) to say the D'Agostino Momentum or the Esoterics or the Soulution and the likes. These gears cost much much more than the Simaudio Moon Evolution series. Like you have mentioned earlier : comparing the Simaudio Evolution to the D'Agostino Momentum is like comparing BMW M5 to Ferrari.....but I'd think more like comparing BMW M5 to Lamborghini Avantador or even Bugati. The BMW M5 is great and delivers great performance for its price range but are no match to the Lambo Avantador or the Bugati Feyron.

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