alexandrum
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Recommandations for safely driving PSB T3's
shp
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Hi Alex

11 o'clock isn't that high on the dial. With speakers at between 89 (normal) and 91 (a bit high) efficiency, your 70 watt Marantz should be enough provided you're not listening to sustained Earth-shattering tones at high volumes.

The amplifier getting warm doesn't really mean too much. Getting HOT would be a problem though.

Commsysman I believe knows a lot about nuanced electrical details so I'll mention him in hopes this grabs his eye.

But you also asked if you'd get better results from newer electronics. If you weren't able to tell in the store and you're curious about improvements, AudioAdvisor.com and MusicDirect.com both offer 30- to 60-day home trials. You can buy the NAD, test drive it and if you don't like it, return it. Then you'll know for sure how you like it in your room with your speakers.

Scott

b

bierfeldt
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shp is spot on. If you like the sound, it is delivering volume levels you are happy with and the amp is not getting hot, you don't need more power. if you were regularly listening at about 3:00 or the amp was uncomfortably hot to touch, then more power would be in order. That being said, you may not need more power but you might want it.

If you do opt for more power, I would simply add a power amp. That 7001 is equipped with a pre-amp out. You could get a Marantz MM7025 for $799 new or $550 refurbed. That would double your power output at 140w while maintaining the Marantz sound you really like. Crutchfield, Needledoctor, accessories4less and a few other web retailers sell Marantz with 30-60day return policies. That is what I would do if I wanted a bit more power.

If you did opt to go with a power amp, I would probably get a real nice cable like an Audioquest Golden Gate to attach it. Quality unbalanced cables are important.

commsysman
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With those high-sensitivity speakers, you have all of the power you need; power is not a problem. I drove a set of PSB T6 speakers for some time with a 40 watts per channel Cambridge amp with no problem at all, and they were about the same as yours in terms of power requirement.

There ARE better-sounding amplifiers out there, if you want to spend the money, but your Marantz is pretty good and you would have to spend some fairly serious money to make a big improvement; but power per se is not really the issue.

For example, you could get an Arcam A28 amplifier, which would make a substantial improvement, but that lists for $1699, or a Musical Fidelity M3i, for $1499.

But you say you love how it sounds now, so why fix it if it ain't broken...lol.

If you can put your palm on the hottest spot of the amplifier and leave it there for 10 seconds, it is not getting too hot.

alexandrum
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In the audition room I only listened to those 3 amps at sound levels as if I were at home. I did not push them hard, only up to a sound level that I usually listen to. Thanks for all the links. However, since I'm in Canada, it's harder and more expensive to deal with Internet purchases and/or warranties if any. I'll definitely give it a go if I can.

I've used Decibel10th app on an iPad because I don't have anything else to measure the sound level. It's accuracy being debatable, here are the sound levels I've recorded while listening to Eric Clapton's Layla (unplugged):
-peak 95 dB,
-average 87 dB,
with a room noise at 35 dB.
In my house, these sound levels are way enough for my listening habits. I can't imagine I would listen louder than that. Although the Decibel10th app may overestimate the sound levels a bit.

For now I'm pleased with the sound. My main concern was the power needed to drive them "safely" because the T3's are bigger than the T6's I had before. Today I did a 4 hours listening at the above sound levels and the amp did get warm but definitely not hot. I could keep my hand on it, no problem. This could indicate that "it can take it".
I'll keep looking, or better ...listening. :)

One more question. Let's assume we have 2 amplifiers, same brand, exact specifications except the power output. Would the more powerful one sound better at the same volume levels? What I mean to ask is does more power sound better at the same volume level? Before getting to the point of pushing the limits of the less powerful one. What about newer Marantz amps like the PM8003 or PM8004? I've read they have the same power output but they claim better "improved" current if that matters. I've looked at MM7025 but the user manual states that I shouldn't use speakers that are less than 6 Ohms. :(

Thanks for all the info guys.

Regards,
Alex

bierfeldt
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Some speakers unquestionably sound better with more power. I have not spent time with the Imagine T3s to be able to say whether they will benefit from it. It isn't that you will damage them by driving them with less power, but they will sound best driven with high power. If there is a speaker in PSBs line that would open up and sounds better with more power, it is likely to be this one.

The Marantz MM7025 doesn't do well with low impedance speakers. Marantz's spec is for a nominal impedance of 6ohms as a max, not a variable impedance. You would never want to use it to drive a speaker kill the Dynaudio Excite F38. That being said, even at modest volumes peaks in impedance can occur and the Marantz will break up a touch when it hits those peaks.

I can think of a few superb alternatives in a similar price range among power amps that are all rated to 4 ohms. Here are a few options:

Outlaw Audio Model 2200 Monoblock - $379 Each and you would obviously need 2. They are 200w each so plenty of power. Outlaw is a Marantz dealer and their amps pair well with Marantz. they will ship to Canada and because they are web based, I am pretty sure the return policy will hold regardless of country. You could call them to ask.

Parasound Halo A23 is $995 US - The Halo line is exceptional from Parasound. Parasound also has a classic line. It is less expensive but not in the same class as the Halo line. 125w so less than Outlaw but Outlaw is a web only product line and doesn't have a dealer network and wholesaler. Parasound delivers a neutral, very detailed sound. I have spent some time listening to this paired with the P5 preamp and was impressed.

Cambridge Audio Azur 651W is $999. 100w of clean power. Cambridge makes outstanding equipment and I have heard good thing about this power amp though I have never listened to it. Everything I have read says this should be almost perfectly neutral.

Adcom GFA555ms is $899. 125w of power. I have always liked Adcom amps but in general I am a bigger fan of the Parasound. This is a darn nice unit for the money and Adcom has a reputation for deliver neutral to slightly warm sound.

alexandrum
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I've considered Parasound too. I can't find demo/used here, and my budget is around 2000 CAD $. The space where I have to put in my gear is also limited to 20″x9″ (WxH) which can accommodate one piece of hardware. I can't fit both a power amp and a preamp. It's the design of the custom "in wall shelve" I have in my living room. I also need to leave some space for heat dissipation. This is why I've looked only at integrated amps, for an all in one solution. Based on the deals I've found in my area and within my budget, I'm debating between:
-Musical Fidelity M6i (demo) 2100 CAD $
-Musical Fidelity A308 (used) 1700 CAD $
-NAD C 375BEE (new) 1500 CAD $

I can't find any official documentation that specifies if the M6i does 4 ohms:
www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/catalogerfiles/m6i/4_M6i.pdf
www.musicalfidelity.com/support/discontinued-products/m6i/

What would be the pros and cons of these three amps? Is the M6i a better deal as it's newer than the A308? The NAD I can find it new for that price.

Thanks.

bierfeldt
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The PSBs hit 4 ohm peaks but do not operate continuously at 4 ohms. You should be fine with the units mentioned above. You Marantz isn't rated to deliver continuous power into 4 ohms yet it is doing just fine.

I am not familiar with the A308 or the M6i. I have only heard the newer M6si.

The NAD is a nice sounding unit but I think there are better values at that price point including the Peachtree Nova 125SE. It should be about the same price as the NAD but will deliver more detailed sound. The new Peachtree Nova 220SE will add a touch of warmth and is a really sweet unit with 220w of power. It should be around $2000. The Roksan Kandy K2 BT at 140w and should be around $1900. I have not spent a ton of time with the K2 BT, but have spent time with the older K2. I loved it and the BT is a step forward.

commsysman
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bierfeldt wrote:

The PSBs hit 4 ohm peaks but do not operate continuously at 4 ohms. You should be fine with the units mentioned above. You Marantz isn't rated to deliver continuous power into 4 ohms yet it is doing just fine.

I am not familiar with the A308 or the M6i. I have only heard the newer M6si.

The NAD is a nice sounding unit but I think there are better values at that price point including the Peachtree Nova 125SE. It should be about the same price as the NAD but will deliver more detailed sound. The new Peachtree Nova 220SE will add a touch of warmth and is a really sweet unit with 220w of power. It should be around $2000. The Roksan Kandy K2 BT at 140w and should be around $1900. I have not spent a ton of time with the K2 BT, but have spent time with the older K2. I loved it and the BT is a step forward.

"The PSBs hit 4 ohm peaks"...????

That doesn't make any sense; that is gobbledegook.

I think what you mean to say is the the PSBs have an impedance of 4 ohms or so at certain frequencies, yet have a higher impedance at other frequencies. The speaker load impedance varies depending on the instantaneous frequency of the signal.

The Marantz is rated for 100 watts per channel at 4 ohms; it is in the operating manual.

That is more power than required for speakers rated at 91 db/watt/m.

bierfeldt
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I used the same language that was used by dealers to describe the issue I had with my Infinity's. Volume goes up and impedance drops at certain frequencies. As the impedance drops, the power draw "peaks" at those moments and it is harder for amps to drive lower impedances. Pardon the casualness in my choice in language, but I have had multiple dealers use similar language describing what would happen when my Infinity's Impedance would drop to 1.7ohms as this caused fuses to blow in my Carver power amps.

Regarding the Marantz, I looked in the operating manual and missed it. I saw the 8 ohm rating and and missed the 4 ohm. Kudo's to you for finding that.

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