Geoff:

I have read many of your recommendations and respect your viewpoint. But I must confess, even with my knowledge of Theoretical Physics and Post-Doc Mathematics (Applied and Theoretical).....I fail to grasp your point.

My fear is... with my scientific background; which I think is a little rare, if I am not able to grasp your point, perhaps it needs re-worded so the layman audiophile can agree with you or disagree or have some sort of intelligent discourse. While I purport an advanced scientific background, I am a freshman; or more aptly, a Sophomore (Wise Fool) when it comes to audio and really do wish to hear your view.

Kind Regards,

Ron

Geoff:

Thank you for clarifying. That is of tremendous help to me.

I wish I had experience in vibration....whether audiophile or science..I fear my Mechanical Engineer friend from long ago would be able to answer; but alas, I cannot add any value to this thread!

Hoever, I am intrigued by vibration isolation and its use in audiophile tuning...and hope to be able to be given the chance to test it out first hand someday.

So at least on an abstract, theoretical level, I can provide input in that I believe in it as having merit in a sheer logical exercise; but no direct experience.

Thanks again for the clarification. Maybe others with experience can comment on vibration isolation.

Cheers,

Ron

All:

I've seen some gallery pics where it looks like folks are using butcher block under components... and some folks are using small, roughly 1.5" cube wooden blocks under their components..would these be a good, cost effective start? Or is that just going off on the wrong foot?

Kind Regards,

Ron

ps. will start new topic as it differs from OP...

Hi Ron

Your basically going to see two camps of thought, once you decide which camp you want to get started with the products you choose to play with will fall in line.

First camp is Kill the Vibrations.

Second "tune" the Vibrations.

From what I have seen, most people start off in the killing camp (not always), and then end up staying there or converting to the Tuning camp.

The most important thing to get straight on your journey is that all of these tweaks make a change in the sound. However if your system is locked in to a sound signature it will be harder to break away from the sound depending on how "tank like" build the system has. I prefer systems of low mass and more open to suggestion. You can view them on TuneLand. Others believe if you Kill the vibrations you'll get more music. We have not found this to be true, but more, if you tune the energy to get along with the signal you get much closer to the source. The debates will rage on until listeners try both sides and decide for themselves. One thing you will notice in the debate is, those who tune have done both dampening and tuning, those who push dampening have not tried free resonant tuning.

We're pretty patient when it comes to watching people try the dampening first and watching them slowy come over to the tuning side, but the adventure is fun, or should be, either way.

For myself in this hobby, I started with dampening, moved more to isolation, then after those, went complete tuning. I still have to build isolation booths and buildings but have found that there really isn't any true isolation. Close in many cases but not true. In the cases of construction of an isolation system it takes many hundreds of thousands to really come close, and those who try to do cheaper versions of this are really more dampeners than true isolation pods, but they will argue not. To each their own.

On the tuning end, we have found that every recording has it's own "recorded code" and to get the best listening results one needs to allow this code to develope. After so you can tune it in as you would a musical instrument.

Now, without a doubt geoff will be joining us on this trip of yours, and because of this and because he will be taking the isolation approach, I want you to look at something that will give you a clue.

Geoff started with an in-room system using dampening and isolation, moved to a headphone system, which he said made him never look back at in-room. This headphone system was based on isolation (according to geoff) I saw it more of a dampened system, but no biggie. Then geoff dumped the isolation system for a low mass portable cassette player. I say this not only because geoff, may, myself and a few others post more than the others and I personally believe that someones music system says more about their success or lack of most times.

Your path is yours to take, but keep in mind there is and always will be levels of recordings, products and most importantly "methods of listening". Almost all tweaks can have an instant wow factor, and a following for that wow. Wow's are a dime a dozen in this hobby, and one is waiting around every corner to pull you into their way of thinking, but the key to successful listening is, one knowing where you want to go, and two being willing to make a change when you get stuck.

So, before you go too far, where does Ron want to go?

Might I make a suggestion. If your going to start a thread here on your system, why don't you also join and start a thread on Tuneland? I believe you might be surprised by how you will see this hobby by having both.

:)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi geoff, I'm just sharing the playing field for readers so they can match the systems and labs used, to the voices talking to them.

If someone is talking to you about isolation and dampening and me about mechanical transfer and tuning, I think it wise to look at our respective labs and personal listening backgrounds is all.

To the best of my knowledge I have never read where you have designed or built an iso-room, building, or booth. I have read where you made your own isolation table, but if my research is correct (sorry if I am wrong) you haven't designed any structures Earth-ed. If this is the case than I have actually gone further in isolation than you have, as well designing in mechanical transfer. Not to marginalize your work, but how can you know things for certain if you as a designer have not been a part of both camps, as well even in your own camp not designing further than a table?

Did you build your own iso-lab and haven't mentioned it? If so I would be interested in visiting it.

These talks especially with Ron asking questions I find most enjoyable, and allows us, primarily you, May, Ron and myself to explore these topics without the flaming of past.

Please keep in mind that however Ron decides to tune, is cool to watch, just as with Costin, Bill, Dan. Toledo, Chris, and all the others willing to share their systems with us. We don't know what May is using yet but hopefully we will get to that stage some day. Notice though how things are different when people actively share their systems and personal listening? This is a building block (the building block) that ties us together. It's the doing part of the hobby, and takes us further than just the talking part. After all what are theories without practice.

example

When your talking about your portable system, I've heard you talk about both ear pods and headphones. the difference between the two and why is interesting. Also how you feel the cassette doesn't need a head adjustment. These are things that help us all paint the pictures of each other as listeners. the more we share about what we are "doing" the more credible your relations become, no matter what level we may think we are in the adventure of listening.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Not laying anything on you geoff, just stating what you and I have done in the way of isolation so people are clear. I simply asked if you have an iso-lab, by your response I take it not. So, you would have no way of knowing if someone has gone further in isolation than yourself.

We agree on one thing "talk is cheap". Have you even been to an iso-lab? We see you put up pictures of others who have done things but I think it would be more meaningful for us if you showed us your extent of iso-testing in the way of buildings you have worked on.

thanks in advance

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Geoff, I'm sure the readers have seen you bring up schooling enough to be able to reference credibility. A friend of mine visited me years ago at one of my studios and was making fun of me because I have never hung my awards and certificates. "I know what I've done, why do I need to remind myself lol." My idea of smarts is being open to learn more in the future, not being stuck in only what I have done in the past. I'd rather dedicate my walls to art or an acoustical product. If you feel you have more schooling than me, I don't have a problem with that.

repeat

"Not laying anything on you geoff, just stating what you and I have done in the way of isolation so people are clear. I simply asked if you have an iso-lab, by your response I take it not. So, you would have no way of knowing if someone has gone further in isolation than yourself."

Trying to make another look dumber Geoff, does not make you look smarter.

covering the bases

There are two types of study, Books & Doing. The student who has never done, at best math, is only half learned. Someone can paint themselves with erudite charm all they wish and be dumb as a brick.

nice to see you relating with crayons again

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/