Kosta
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New receiver for the theater/music-setup
commsysman
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I think you will find that either the Denon or the Marantz would be an improvement in sound quality over the Onkyo; but then almost anything would be...lol.

For a REALLY good-sounding receiver, though, I would strongly advise getting either a Cambridge Audio receiver or a NAD receiver. They are significantly better-sounding than their competition.

Marantz I could live with though; they are not too bad; WAY better than Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer etc.IMO.

Don't fall into the trap of going by power ratings supplied by manufacturers! Some manufacturers give power ratings that are extremely misleading, while some others (such as NAD and Cambridge give honest ratings). Comparing one against the other is always going to favor the less honest ratings, which are nonsense and grossly inflated.

Quite often the really good-sounding receivers have lower power ratings but actually drive most speakers with lower distortion and superior sound quality.

Kosta
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I've actually been looking at the older Azur 651W, the local shop has it for €800, however the lack of XT32 is a big disadvantage. Also no Airplay, but I guess CA is sound before features (which I do not completely dislike).
However for the room correction, I could get the DIRAC. That would put me way above €1140 for the Marantz SR7009 though.

bierfeldt
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That is a glaring issue with both Cambridge and NAD, If you are looking for a system that is audio first that can also do surround, they are awesome but Audyssey is monstrously important and I wouldn't consider anything without XT32 if you are even flirting with the idea of stepping up to Atmos.

If you are looking for a surround system that you will occasionally play audio in, Denon or Marantz are the way to go in that price range. Denon is neutral, Marantz has a touch of warmth. They are made by the same company in different divisions, D&M Holdings. It is a matter of personal preference which one you get. I like Marantz's sound a touch better, others prefer Denon.

The video circuitry is excellent and very similar in both. It isn't quite up to the same level as Onkyo/Integra as those are really video centric receivers but still excellent. However, I find the Onkyo/Integra sound to be too digital and a touch harsh which is why I opted for Marantz.

To give you an idea how similar they are, the iPhone apps from Denon and Marantz are interchangeable. When I bring up the Denon app, all my Marantz units show up and vice versa. Incidentally, I have a low end Denon receiver and a Marantz Pre/Pro and Power Amp along with several other Marantz units.

Kosta
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OK, get it. XT32 is a must in surround.

Another question: I read around about SR7009's "discrete amplification". Denon doesn't say anything about this.
Is this correct with the Marantz, and if yes, is this important?

In the end, I think I would prefer the warmer sound. I have *maybe* a way of hearing them both, but not really sure - I have to see if the shop would be ready to play them both for me (there is only one here in vicinity and they are actually very unpleasant).
When it comes to the choice of Denon X4100 for €999 or Marantz SR7009 for €1140, I reckon the Marantz is the winner?

bierfeldt
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A discrete amp basically processes every channel separately. A "chip" amp has one large processor that processes all of the channels together. In general, discrete amp will sound much better. This is why cheap AVRs sound like garbage. Good ones use discrete amplification. Denon uses discrete amplification on even relatively inexpensive AVRs which is why they are usually recommended in the sub $600 price range,

That Denon is absolutely discretely amplified. Scroll down the page at this link:
http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx4100w

I undestand the issue with an unhelpful store. I would offer this advice, if your speakers are bright go with the Marantz. If your speakers are warm, you may may want the Denon. If your speakers are neutral and you want to maintain that neutrality, the Denon will do that better. If you want a touch of warmth, you will get that from the Marantz. I find Onkyo equipment a hair bright, so you might find that the Denon is going to be a touch compared to what you are used to though it is truly neutral.

In the end, both are excellent units and the differences will be modest. I personally would pick the Marantz but I am biased toward that slightly warmer sound.

commsysman
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Check out Audio Advisor for Marantz and NAD receivers.

XT32 is just another digital processor that degrades the sound quality; they all suck IMO>

bierfeldt
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When I listen to music, I listen to 2 channel audio either using the direct or "pure direct" function on my pre/pro. No dynamic EQ is wanted or required as I want to hear the music. Movies are a completely different story.

When watching a movie in something like Dobly TrueHD where you are listing to a 5.1 channel file, I would never go without Audyssey. If you want the "theatre" experience and have it sound great for every seat in your room, Audyssey makes it ridiculously simple for anyone to accomplish. And sounding great for everyone in the room is the major reason why the latest version of Audyssey is so critical.

It comes down to what you want to experience. I want to hear the soundtrack in a crystal clear way and have the experience of sitting in a dark room with a big screen and cool effects like I am in an IMAX. That immersive experience is fun, especially when watching an action movie. In my old, pre Audyssey home theatre, this was not easy to accomplish for one seat, and impossible for the total room. In fact, unless I sat in the sweet spot which required optimal speaker placement, I found surround sound a bit distracting and kind of annoying.

Room correction improves the movie watching experience for everyone in the room. It helps smooth the sound so that even if you are sitting near one of the side or rear speakers, it isn't irritatingly distracting. It works extremely well, especially when speakers are in less than optimal places or your viewing room is not a perfect rectangles. To me, it has completely changed the game for surround sound in home theatre and taken it from an infrequently used novelty and turned it into something that truly enhances the home movie watching experience.

Kosta
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Well, then I hope it will sound well to my expectations. I can return it for free (also return label is free), so no harm done. Still a friend is coming by with his X4100, and we can test one vs the other. And still if I prefer Denon better I can still order it with the same guy.

And btw. the speakers I have are rather neutral in sound, they have ribbon tweeters, and I would I think prefer warm sound. Lets hope Marantz really sounds warm AND clean. I hate muddy sound.

I would also like to listen on Pure Direct when listening to music, this is why I am right now looking into how to acoustically treat my new cellar-room - I want to do it all DIY, as I can't afford acoustical treatment by professionals. I am quite handy with DIY, so I reckon I should be able to treat the room quite well, including bass from 20hz up (which would solve my problem with having to have XT32 for music on).

bierfeldt
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Especially in your house. I doubt you will find either muddy. Happy listening!!!

Kosta
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Hello there,
I found the link to this thread in my bookmarks, so before I delete it, I wanted to update it with a final posting.
I got the SR7009 now, and it was the absolutely right choice for my speakers and my taste.

Already when I got it, and turned it, I immediately heard there is this "connection" between my ears and the receiver :)
The sound was just right for me, and I started with the LS positioning and finally measuring.
XT32 did a WAY better job than I thought it would, and I was absolutely amazed with it. In fact that much, that now I'm building my own HomeCinema + Musik-Listening room.
And btw. yes, I've heard the Denon, however not with my speakers unfortunately, rather with my friend's Cantons. I didn't like it. But it might as well be the speakers too. Also for some reason, the Marantz, when configured correctly, sounded very homogenous, while Denon sounded quite cold. Like the subwoofer didn't want to integrate into mains, which my Marantz is doing flawlessly.

In any case, I am a very happy camper and the next step might be some nice 2-ch AMP for the front, when I sell my other audio-setup, but that's future...

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