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November 13, 2014 - 8:34am
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New to forum, renewing my passion for music
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I think my post was a little too open ended to get any suggestions. I did discover there is an audiophile retailer in Albuquerque (Listen Up)so being able to try out stuff will be better than trying to decide based on other peoples opinions, even though I do value the opinions of others that love music.
Probably my first quest should be to see if there are headphones that will be better than the Bose Quietcomfort 15's I have. I do not like the fact that these cans need a battery and I know I am paying extra for the Bose name and noise canceling feature. I am willing to go up to $500 if I notice a decent improvement in the listening experience. My biggest complaint is it seems like the soundstage is in my head rather than in front of me and this is why I am dreaming about a system with speakers. I am like so many of you where I would love to listen to a good jazz recording and feel like the group is performing in my living room.
My next decision will be if I need to replace my NHT system with tower speakers. I have two NHT subs and I have been disappointed in them over the years. They seem to be in constant need of repair as something always comes loose and I get an awful vibrating sound. I would like to find some tower speakers for around $1,500 where there would be no need for a subwoofer. I still like oomph in the base but the living room does not have to shake when a huge spaceship is landing in a movie or when something is exploding. Music is first priority and I can always add a sub later.
I am thinking of just upgrading my receiver initially. I saw where Marantz has a good sounding receiver (NR1403)around $400. It is only 5.1 and has no wifi features and that is fine with me. It is 50 watts per channel so my guess is I will need fairly efficient speakers.
So other than headphone recommendations what tower speakers would be recommended for a music first/home theater second priority where a sub would not be needed. I do like some jazz and other music with percussion and where I can almost feel a base guitar. I do have a logistics concern with the speakers. The right speaker would be partially blocked by a couch, so I hoping there will be models where the drivers are above the arm height of the couch.
So headphone and speaker recommendations would be appreciated for a start. Headphone budget $500 at the very most and I could do $2,000 for speakers but prefer to stay around $1500. I may consider a center speaker if used for our home theater system as well as a subwoofer if it helps the music listening experience. I will most likely keep my NHT surrounds.
Sennheiser HD600 or 650.
Speaker placement is important to create a proper soundfield in order to get the "in the room with you" kind of experience that good HiFi can recreate. Just as soon as you begin making compromises to work around room flow and furniture you start limiting how well the system can perform.
I'm not suggesting that you dedicate the room for speaker placement, but you should begin by knowing where they will be located and identify how much wiggle room you have to move them around...if any. This will determine which speaker type might work better, just as you noted about having a driver firing into the side of a couch arm.
The natural extension of this is where the listening position will be located in relation to the speakers. Again, this has a lot to do with how well the system can perform and what type speaker would serve the purpose better. Some speakers beam and some speakers have wide dispersion.
The need for a sub is somewhat of a personal taste and very much related to speaker type and location. I've never required them even with bookshelf speakers while others wouldn't consider not having two very large subs.
My advice would be to draw a floorplan of the room with furniture located and with accurate measurements and take that to your local dealer. If the dealer is worth anything, he'll find the floorplan useful in discussing your options given your budget.
For headphones, I've been very happy with my Senheiser Momentums. I'm sure the 600/650's that Catch recommends are very good, too. But I needed a on ear set because I mostly use them when flying.
It's hard to say what tower speaker might have drivers higher than your sofa without knowing the height of the sofa. Probably a two-way, like a Proac, would be easier to accommodate than a three-way: at some point the drivers just have to fall below the plane of the sofa.
But in your situation, I would also consider a stand-based speaker which would give you a bit of flexibility with stand height to "come over" the sofa.
The vast majority of my music listening will be with headphones. I tried several yesterday around the $300 to $400 range and concluded that one is not that much better over the other, they are just different. From what I have been reading it seems like in order to really hear a difference, especially when it comes to a soundstage, I will have to drastically up my headphone budget. I read where the Sennhieser HD 800s are really good in that regard.
I will use the words of the famous songwriting poet Megan Trainer "I like da bass", so I am going to have to try a set somewhere or order from somewhere like Amazon with a good return policy. In other words I am now willing to spend around $1500 to $2000 if it really helps the listening experience. I remember getting a Sennheiser set of noise canceling headphones where there was a tube attached and felt like there was no bass. As much as I use headphones I understand there is a fatigue factor and that could be another reason to up my budget.
I do have another question - would a device like the Dragonfly be helpful? I think there is something similar called Microstreamer and I am curious about the difference between the two. I am not giving up on the speakers, just putting that decision more down the road. So here is what I am looking for now - headphones where I can actually tell are better than any in the $300 range with the biggest difference in the soundstage. Other factors I am considering is how whey would work with my Sansa Clip and this could be a problem with the HD 800.I do plan on getting a HD portable player soon. Another concern is blocking out the noise while my wife watches tv, again another possible negative with the HD800.
On a side note is I have noticed there are some really decent mp3 recordings that I can get with my Zune music subscription. I am creating a folder with the same songs in mp3 and FLAC (I think that is the correct name) to see what will bring out the difference. I have some Diana Krall and Sony Rollins songs along with a few others that I will use for my listening tests.
I appreciate this forum but wish there was a little more activity as I am seeing the more I think I know the more I need help. Picking headphones is not easy as even the best has some sort of drawback. It seems like a lot of the better ones require a headphone amplifier.
Since I do a lot of my listening using my laptop and headphones probably my first upgrade should be some sort of a DAC. There are a lot of choices besides Dragonfly and Microstreamer. It appears most are a combination DAC and headphone amp and my guess is I should not go too cheap to make sure I have enough power to drive some of the better headphones. I am not assuming all laptops are the same when it comes to audio so I created a post on a Lenovo forum geared for the laptop I own to get opinions if a DAC would improve my listening experience, my guess is it will.
I may have to have a couple of sets of earphones depending on circumstances. I probably will hang on to my Bose because of the noise canceling feature. I may try the Sure SRH 1440 headphones because from reviews I have read there is good bass and a very good soundstage. This will probably give me something different than the Bose. From what I have read a DAC with an amplifier can make a big difference in the performance of any headphone and it is a relatively cheap investment.
If I go expensive then I need to make sure I take the time to really burn the headphones in and if I am not really moved by the experience I have to have the ability to return them. I really hate doing this but I would hate even more to spend a couple of grand and not be happy with the purchase.
Try stereophile' sister publication Inner Fidelity for more reviews on headphones.
In terms of DAC's many will support USB these days. And they have built-in headphone amps. Price will play a role in sound quality but it will also be driven by the number formats (PCM only or DSD Also) and sampling rates (96, 192, and higher).
If you only have ripped CD's or iTunes tracks the dragonfly and audio engines are great choices. Mytek and Benchmark add higher sample rates and DSD. And if you want the super high end quality AND portability consider Chord's Qute.
the lack of responses may not be a bad thing. people tend to have strong recommendations that work for *them*. they key is for *you* to find something that best suits your personal preferences, and to h*ll with what people think. :-) if it was easy to clearly discern "the best", we'd all have identical systems. :-)
as to headphones, my personal preference tends to go for
(1) Grado, currently the PS500e. not the most accurate, but sublime in musicality and dynamics.
(2) For a take-with-me solution, i use in ear monitors. they work better for me than noise cancellation, which seems to introduce some white noise that bugs me. i hence use Shure SE530. they sound amazing, but are on the lean, analytical side; which may bug some looking for some drama.
as to a 2-3k home system, my big recommendation si to go used and scavenge Ebay and Audiogon. there is great new stuff out there that sounds awesome at any price level. in my weekend cabin, i have a Logitech SqueezeBox Touch feeding into a Musical Fidelity M1PWR (399 on amazon, refurbished) and Totem DreamCatcher speakers (around 400 on Ebay). the combo is awesome.
The staff at Stereophile has reviewed tons of gear and the database is extremely extensive. Would you value any of our opinions on gear over that of the professional writers who have listened to more gear by a factor of thousands over the extremely limited experiences of the peanut gallery?
You have already learned the most important thing, which is that there are a lot of things you need to learn before you spend your money. A good dealer can shorten that curve or you can learn by spending your money over and over again while you satisfy yourself that you are capable and qualified to know what you need from your gear.
The lowdown on the usefulness of reviews is this: The Stereophile reviewers are very good at describing how gear sounds to them. You can believe what they write and that they are shooting straight. However, even they can't tell you what aspect of the sound you should care about most and in what order of importance. That's something you have to discover for yourself.
I have preferred many components that were less highly rated than others simply because my preferences differ from many reviewers. However, I almost always hear the same sonic signatures that the reviewer describes when I'm able to evaluate stuff that has been reviewed.
It is difficult to translate a mental image to what something would actually sound like to me when it comes to music, and reading reviews is a bunch of mental images. The descriptions do help me some. I know this is probably an audiophile sin but I do like the sound of the Bose Quiet Comfort headphones. I do like some punch to the music without sacrificing accuracy. I also understand the problem of trying something out in a bad listening environment or the strange but true fact that many components need a breaking in period to really be able to judge the sound.
I am thinking my first step should be some sort of headphone amp if I am considering some high end headphones. I am guessing I may need something with some power and I am hoping there are good amps that are also DACs and that I could use them with a mp3 player or my laptop. I am guessing a Dragonfly or Microstreamer may not be adequate for some of the higher end headphones. So this is where I would like to start seeking some product opinions.
I am going to hold off on speakers and may look for something through ebay or Craigslist down the road. Since it is really tough for me to find time where I am alone and can crank up the music a little my focus will be on headphones. I really do enjoy listening to music using my laptop, which seems to have a good sound card, and my Sansa Clip with the Bose headphones. The noise canceling comes in handy when my wife has the tv on, which is pretty much always. I do realize that the noise canceling feature is really meant to drown out the lower frequency sounds like airplane engine noise so some close ended phones may work. But from what I am reading the more open type headphones have the wider more upfront sound stage which I seek, so then I go the garage to do serious listening!
Again I do appreciate the responses. I probably need to subscribe to Inner Ear and to continue to do a lot if researching. - Gary
gary - *welcome* to the wonderful, every shifting, analog world of music. you *have* the right approach and i liked that right away - you made a priority for *music*. equipment... bah. the love for music is the catalyst! what do you listen to? any fav records you are passionate about - recommendations majorly appreciated over here.
headphones... setup... definitely always a compromise. easier for me after my divorce, but she loved good music too, so incompatibility about that wasn't the reason (in fact i helped her set up a sweet system 4 months ago). noise cancelling isn't my thing, i feel like i miss something, but i get it may be a priority in some environments. Bose undoubtedly seems the leader in that field (i still would pick the Shure SE535s every time), so you are making the right choices there based on your own preferences.
all i can tell you is i think there has never been a better time to get into the hobby - amazing cost-performance ratio out there these days.
keep us updated on your choices.
This is the headphone amp I may buy if I get a high end set of headphones -
Sony PHA-2 (I edited the live link because I am not sure if we are allowed to post a live product link)
I am sure it is overkill for what I have but I am seriously thinking of splurging on headphones which means I a willing to spend whatever it takes to find a set that will actually improve what I already enjoy. I probably need to narrow down my headphone choices before I buy any type of amp. How do they work with a mp3 player, do you simply use a cable with a male headphone jack on each end, which means the amp would need to have two headphone jack connections.
My music tastes are pretty broad. I have a Zune subscription so I can listen to a lot of stuff before I buy. I do like some Jazz, just downloaded some Sonny Rollins, Diana Krall, and other jazz tunes. After our trip to New Orleans I fell in love with stuff like Kenny Ball and Al Hirt (old recordings though). I love Brad Paisly, all kinds of celtic music, world music (Semite is an artist I enjoy) and I have a ton of oldies. I also enjoy classical.
I have been going on a mp3 buying spree, getting my stuff from the Xbox music/Zune subscription as I mentioned. it seems like some of the files are really fairly decent quality. I am planning on getting a high resolution portable media player such as Pono or the Sony NWZ-A17. I will most likely use HDtracks to buy my high rez music. Again I do understand that all the for a lot of my mp3s the best equipment in the worls may not make a huge difference in the listening experience, but some high quality recordings may benefit. This is one reason I enjoy reading the product reviews, the reviewers always give some sample of what they use as their reference music and it makes me want to find the track and give it a listen.
By the way, I have always loved music but what has triggered an obsession is going from the rented files on my Zune music player, in other words my subscription music, to purchased tracks. There was a noticeable difference in the sound quality so it made me buy all the stuff I have been renting.
I suggest that you start with a good amplifier and speakers.
The Music Hall 15.3 amplifier is around $600, and is hard to beat for under $1000; a very good amplifier.
The Monitor Audio BX-6 speakers are an excellent buy now at Audio Advisor; less than $800 per pair.
Those are quality components that will give a lot of satisfaction without breaking the bank, and leave some money for some other gear.
The BX-6 speakers will give you plenty of bass, but if you want a subwoofer for even more there are some fairly good ones for around $500 or so.
Welcome! back Gary.
Hi Gary
No way I could do phones without a 30 or 60 day back. The way the internet is that's more doable than it use to be. Most phones I play with start to reveal themselves after about 20 or so days of listening. I start noticing by that time if the music sounds fake, or fatiging or physically a pain in the ear. I'm pretty sensitive since I've had to use phones much of my life.
Another biggie is how long are your listening sessions. I use different phones depending on what I'm using them for. One of the coolest things about phones is you can have 4 or 5 sets in your closet to choose from depending on your mood. I personally am not a one set man. I do not use my blues and rock set for my classical, and I don't use any of my home sets if I'm recording. If listening a long time and to Jazz, it's yet another set.
Making tunable systems has made me learn to enjoy flexibility, and I find it hard to have a one stop shop approach to phones.
As far as in-room, check out my site. I have a little recommended system that smokes for pennies.
michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/