You are here

Log in or register to post comments
Fred K
Fred K's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jul 24 2014 - 12:06pm
Mapleshade and Audio Point Products

I'd like feedback on Mapleshade products, and their tweak devices in particular. The company presents some very strong arguments for component isolation combined with using heavy brass footers to "drain" unwanted vibrations and resonances into heavy maple platforms.

The same questions applie to Audio Points from Star Sound Technologies.

I think their equipment platforms and speaker stands look beautiful, especially when combined with the various styles and sizes of brass footers that are supposed to radically improve the sound quality.

Are their claims valid? Have readers of this forum had any direct experience they can describe from using Mapleshade or Star Sound products- meaning positive and/or negative feedback?

The company offers a no questions asked money back guarantee on their products- which is impressive. But I've almost never seen the products reviewed in Stereophile, Absolute Sound, or any of the other mainstream audio publications. This applies to their tweaks, cables, interconnects, components, upgrades, etc…

I would think a company that appears to have such confidence in their products would also have them chosen for review by experts in the field.

Thanks for your feedback.

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
Audiopoints

Audiopoints, actually were reviewed by the magazines, but you would have seen them listed many times as Michael Green's Audiopoints because the original reviewing was done before Star Sound Tech was in business.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Isolation or coupling?

As far as I can tell Mapleshade doesn't actually sell any isolation products. I say this as the person who introduced vibration isolation to Pierre at Mapleshade nearly 20 years ago by demonstrating my sub Hertz isolation platform in his lab in downtown DC. If it's not a mass on spring type device it ain't isolation. Not isolation from very low frequency vibration anyway. I include magnetic levitation, negative stiffness, bungee cords, steel springs, air springs and air bladders, and squash balls in my definition of mass on spring devices.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

Fred K
Fred K's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jul 24 2014 - 12:06pm
Ok, so what about Mapleshade?

My terminology may have been inaccurate, but I'd like some feedback on the Mapleshade and Audio Point brass footers- whatever is used to drain unwanted vibration and resonances from equipment. Like I said- I haven't seen that much commentary on their products, so I'm wondering what other opinions are regarding how they improve sound- versus the claims the manufacturers make.

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Everything's relative

I did a quick Google search for Review Mapleshade Brass and got a lot of hits. Reviews are out there. I am not a big fan of brass myself, much preferring NASA grade ceramics. Hope that helps. I have owned both the Michael Green brass cones and Mapleshade brass cones in the past. Hope that helps.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
which models?

Hi Geoff, which models (both Mapleshade & Audiopoints) of the cones did you have? I know at least for myself, if someone shares the associated equipment, model number (and in my case year of model) it helps to dial in the sound. The Audiopoint is different from the MGA MTD (Mechanical Transfer Device), for example. If you remember the packaging I can tell you what you bought. During the early years of the Audiopoint there were a few changes made where I slightly changed the shape, speed of turning and removal of the coating. Most of the cones that went out were actually not the original Audiopoint cones at all but a redesigned cone I made. Most of the reviewers I believe got the MTD version and not Brent's (the originator). You can tell if they were Brent's by scoring the surface slighty and seeing a hint of finish. My version you can actually see the turns.

So to give the history, the Audiopoint was originally designed by one fella (Brent Reil), who I ran into while hunting for cones for my racks. I started promoting the product while fine tuning what I wanted to hear, sent my version to the reviewers and then the Audiopoint name was aquired by a 3rd party, Star Sound. I probably should have kept the Audiopoint name for myself, but didn't know the name was being aquired or that a 3rd party was going into production of a similar product. Life goes on :) . This is how my version came to be the MTD, of course "Audiopoint" was already well in the minds of the community. So what's a few few hundred thousand dollars amongst friends. A lesson in make it yourself from the beginning, and quit being so nice :)

The latest go around of MTD's are on this link http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t65-mga-cones

So from here on out I will refer to the MTD, giving credit to Brent for getting the wheel turning so to speak.

FredK

Hopefully others using either of these product lines (Mapleshade StarSound Tech) can come up and answer your questions, and I would be happy to talk about my designing if you would like, but I don't want to speak for either of the products you mention with the exception of some of my history involvement.

As far as materials go, there's a huge variety of materials and shapes available in shaping the sound. As well different combos that can change the sound of the components all the way from, not much to WOW factor. De-coupling for me is an audio mis-print, I prefer a more realistic term "vibratory transfer". De-coupling again to me sounds like a light switch that either turns on or off and component designing, and it's interaction with the environment, is far more than a, now you have it now you don't. I look at companies like Star Sound and Mapleshade and many others as choices much like walking into a guitar shop with a full range of instruments to choose from and depending on how you use them the out come can be as vast as you want to make it.

This may not answer your question of these two fine companies product specifics, but it might be useful as far as the whole mechanical approach to the hobby goes. For sure not a one size fits all hobby to be in.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
The cones I'm referring to

The cones I'm referring to are the Michael Green cones from about 25 years ago, tall and heavy and nicely machined brass cones with long pointy tip and big cylinder top. The Mapleshade cones I had were their standard brass cones, not the tri point cones they also sell. Hope that helps.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
?? hum

Hi Geoff

you said

"The cones I'm referring to are the Michael Green cones from about 25 years ago, tall and heavy and nicely machined brass cones with long pointy tip and big cylinder top."

Must have been a custom model or someone else's. That's not a standard shape we would have made unless going on the bottom of a rack with inner threads or with a stem thread coming out the top for custom TT designs. The standard cones are only an inch tall X an inch wide and no big cylinder top.

Not sure what your talking about. Oh well lots of knock off's, free country.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
I dunno

Dunno what they were. I always thought they were yours. Whose ever they were they were quite good and physically very cool looking. They were much larger and heavier than your cones, so they were not knock-offs. Another audio mystery. ;-)

I see what yours look like. I had those, too, at one point. Point, get it?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Mystery solved!

The original Audio Points, since 1989.

 photo photo_3_zps2jiq0x9b.png

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
Yep mystery solved! I think lol

Hi Geoff

That's from Star Sound Technologies, not a Michael Green Cone. Also the date you gave, or they gave, is the original date when Brent was making them at Audio Machine & Design. I think Star Sound aquired the rights around 1996-97, somewhere in there. I don't really remember or know their business arrangement, so wouldn't want to say. I was off with other adventures by then and had our own CNC doing the MGA Spikes & Cones Tuning Bolts and all kinds of other specialty goodies.

I did designed a cone like that (still make it), but it was threaded on the inside and screwed onto 3/4" rods, or as I said had a stem for some of the bigger TT's.

The original Michael Green Cones looks like the first cone on this link http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t65-mga-cones

If you got cones like the one in your pic and the top was solid, you didn't get them from us unless someone made a special order for you.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
Nope never said it

I never said I got them from you. I probably got them from Music Direct. I actually don't remember where I got them from. I had the Michael Green cones, too. I don't know where I got those from, maybe Music Direct. Who the hell knows, it's been twenty five years ago. In any case, I much prefer extremely hard materials like the Diamond Hardness cones I mentioned. The next hardest thing next to diamond on the Moh scale. They are much more neutral sounding and open than brass ever thought of being.

Geoff Kait
Machina Diabolical

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
no biggie geoff, sorry Fred

Geoff

I believe the OP was asking if anyone else had experience with these products and knew of reviews and more info on them. Both Mapleshape & Starsound tech have gained good reputations and reviews from what I have seen.

It looks like your experience & knowledge level once again doesn't qualifiy you to make quality judgements. What I was doing was giving the OP a little history so he could better find writen material from the early days, if he wishes to do so.

FredK

Sorry for the twist and turns, hope my info helped a little. Don't mind geoff, he pretty much is here to troll the audio forums and often shows up where he is not qualified to add productive comments to the mix. It appears, from what I'm seeing that he searched the web to try to put together some type of story that was more than likely fiction from the get go, as is his MO on audio sites.

Unfortunately he chose your thread this time to troll. I hope this doesn't result in any bad press for either Mapleshade or Star Sound Technologies products. If you go to either of the manufacturers sites you will more than likely find links to press which most companies do.

Good luck with your inquiry FredK.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
geoffkait's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Joined: Apr 29 2008 - 5:10am
scorecard

Michael, you re so funny7, you cannot ell the trolls without a scorecard.

cheerios,

Geoff Kait
machine Dynamica

Fredman
Fredman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 11 months ago
Joined: Sep 3 2015 - 5:16am
Audiopoint, Mapleshade, etc

Michael-- thanks so much for your responses. I actually have set of Audiopoints that purchased used, in great condition, from the cable company. I haven't run them through a heavy listening test yet, so the jury is out. I also have one of your very own audio racks; its double wide, with 4 shelves made of extremely dense MDF like material, and brass spikes that thread onto the black threaded rods that hold the piece together. It's a great rack (sorry girls) that does the job. I also built my own Mapleshade speaker platforms for my Energy Veritas 2.1 bookshelf speakers, using genuine Mapleshade brass spikes to elevate the front of the speaker. I also used solid maple (I'm a former professional woodworker). Bottom line is I like the idea of tweeks and fine tuning a system, but I cannot say, as of yet, whether I've been able to squeeze out an improvement in audio quality from my system. Time will tell.

As an aside- I've visited your web site many times, but I find it difficult to get any kind of pricing on your products- spikes, platforms, to name a few. Am I missing a link to a price list for the products themselves? The descriptions of them, BTW are very complete. But the bottom line is what do they cost?

And--I'm a huge Pat Metheny fan (along with many other ECM artists).

Regards

Fred

michael green
michael green's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Jan 10 2011 - 6:11pm
ECM fan as well

Hi Fred

Thanks for the report! Always fun to hear what others are up to. To get pricing you can ask Harold Cooper at harold@michaelgreenaudio.com . He can forward you the consumer pricing as well as the TuneLand Family pricing if you are a member. We use to list the pricing then found it to be confusing for the different levels of buying. We try to support the dealerships and distributors as much as we can, who often set their own pricing and specials.

ECM are among my favorites as well, Pat is great and I love what ECM does with Keith Jarrett. Pretty cool list http://www.ranker.com/list/bands-and-musicians-on-ecm/reference?var=2&utm_expid=16418821-135.-M4R2gbDRBSHMkmXmitadA.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Decm%2Bartists%26pc%3DZ161%26form%3DZGAIDF%26install_date%3D20111120%26iesrc%3DIE-SearchBox

Thought I'd throw the list in for others to enjoy. Would love to have you share your music with us on TuneLand.

Have a great weekend!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

  • X