Hi Ron

Good to see you, hope you are well.

As with any type of forum that has to do with participation of "doing the hobby", you will find that when the forum goes to speculation only, the threads and forums will go down hill fast. This goes for any forum anywhere. The Stereophile forum has taken a huge hit, because one there is no accountability, two there are no posters dedicated to long term listening threads and three the important threads turn into such bad trolling that the readers can't tell when they are being trolled or involved in truthful, serious discussions.

Until truth and ethics are restored, this forum for the most part is over and will never rise to the level of most seasoned balanced listeners. A balanced listener doesn't have any desires of going backward. Frankly we have moved on to the listening. The only reason I am here is to recruit those who do indeed want to step up their game. But this will not happen on Stereophile as long as the truly higher end "listeners" are allowed to come here without the trolling.

here's what your members say, about your forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

I have got at least 50 emails sitting here that I have not posted to add to the ones that others have sent or posted. If I opened up a call for truth exposed, you my friend would be shocked at the discuss within the hobby concerning this forum. For those listeners and many others it's simply not worth their time anymore, and honestly I don't blame them. When grown adults have no desire to separate the real from the trolls, or are not able to even tell the difference, it's pretty much a dead zone for anyone wishing to be serious.

In all truth, the smartest of all the remaining posters here is ChrisS. ChrisS spends his time solely calling out internet trolls.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Ron-

I concur w/ you. A temp rut indeed.

MG-

what is on your New Year radar?

Hi Ron

Honestly I would love to be here, but when my name is associated with fighting the trolls instead of presenting the tune, it becomes concerning and my associates are not too thrilled with me being in the mudd of the hobby when I am known for being a promoter of. As you look around these pages, there are no reviewers, designers or pillars of fine listening and collecting of music. I nore anyone else should have to come here and see the lack of enthusiasm, that should have never left, but it has and along with it 99% of the enthusiastic.

Times have changed my friend. Forums ruled by accepted trolling and pointless debates are fading. It's not just here, but in general on a wide range of topics. I am and always be a strong contributor of the hobby, but ignoring leads to ignorance.

Ron, here's what is going on

http://www.bing.com/search?q=internet+troll+personality+disorder&qs=AS&pq=internet+troll&sk=AS2&sc=8-14&sp=3&cvid=D2D8C6D04F17472B8361AE8FFB46967D&FORM=QBRE&ghc=1

Serious audiophiles don't have the time to be in constant involvement with internet social disorders. Forums that don't have propper moderation (which JA has told me in writing he doesn't have time for) never reach higher levels of communication. This has nothing to do with audio as many posters here have brought up tons of times in trying to solve this particular forums plight. Conducting internet etiquette is a must for the survive of any forward thinking community. Again I didn't make the rules

http://www.bing.com/search?q=internet+etiquette&qs=AS&pq=internet+et&sk=AS2&sc=8-11&sp=3&cvid=63BD98AD7D9242039B3D420E00096525&FORM=QBRE&ghc=1

If this forum had individual sub forums that could be monitored by special mod leaders, like most progressive forums do, I'm sure these pages would be full, but to leave it the way it is, this forum will never reach a higher level, or at least it hasn't in some 5 or 6 years according to what members have told me.

as they say, thems the breaks

If you and others have the "stick to it-ness" maybe the high end audiophiles will come back, who knows, not up to me.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Boy is my ass sore. Looks like the Nazis are trying a blitzkrieg.

Relax, just joking.

Hi Allen

Our radar has been shaped by super systems over the last 6 months which has me focusing in on those unique, maybe even over looked products that go all the way. You've seen me mentioning the Audolici for example. I'm sitting outside my Rm#2 with listeners walking out shaking their heads and smiling. It's a CES listening love fest.

There are two comments mostly, one being a return to the ultimate in sound, and the other, listeners welcoming a more dedicated listening room approach. The guys who are stopping by Tuneland Vegas this CES are looking to convert extra bedrooms into one seat private concert halls. The interest has been your basic 10x10-12x14 spare room conversions.

As I said last CES I was going to make some of these rooms so people could come experience what can be done. Since then I've done 3 rooms here as a breaking ground sort of event. Fortunately 3 years ago I moved into a place where I was able to perform these conversions. Honestly not the greatest neighborhood, but 2 miles from the convention center makes up for the outside shabby looks. It's to the place already where I need more rooms, but it's been cool watching audiophiles reactions to what they were thinking standing outside then coming into this strange all listening world. I'm sure they were expecting one listening room inside of this tiny place and then they walk in to see something that looks like an audiophile's high end "Kit Home" the one guy said.

So, our radar is to be apart of system building for those who want to explore more dedicated rooms and variable systems ranging from the basic starter systems all the way up the food chain.

If it doesn't happen here I'll just keep linking over to where the fun is.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

And I'm glad he has. You can't control what others say, only how you respond. Deal with it.

they have dealt with it catch22

they stopped coming here!

I think that's the whole point, who besides you and a very few others want to come here anymore? I don't see any high enders here, do you?

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

>>> “I am writing to compel us to raise our game back to where it was not too long ago “ <<<

I wish, Ron !!!

>>> “so newcomers and long standing members all feel welcome again and get wise, well intended and carefully thought out replies.” <<<

I also wish that, Ron.

You also say :-

>>> “Bring back referencing of songs” <<<

But no one is stopping people doing that. If that is what they wish to do, then they can do it whenever they like. But, I say again, it is not absolutely necessary in order to participate in a discussion group and share experiences. And not doing so should not be a reason to insist that such people should not be allowed to participate in discussions !!!!!!!!!!

>>> “Bring back detailed system/component details and sharing among members who has what components and why they chose them without judgment.” <<<

Again, no one is stopping people doing that. If that is what they wish to do, then they can do it whenever they like. But it is not absolutely necessary in order to participate in a discussion group and share experiences. And not doing so should not be a reason to insist that such people should not be allowed to participate in discussions !!!!!!!!!!

For example. David does not HAVE TO list what music he is listening to nor does he HAVE TO list what Brand name equipment he is listening to in order to pose the question he did:-

>>> “Having said that, Im faced with a mystery, and it is this;
On one particular day my stereo sounds awful. Opaque, closed down,no detail etc.
On a different day, the same system sounds amazing. Open, transparent,detailed,like a twenty thousand dollar reference system.
And I haven't changed anything! What's up with this? Is this difference in my brain? Is it the humidity in the room? Is it in my houses electrical wiring?
Has anyone else experienced this?" <<<

and ask for advice !!

And, when you describe your experience as a suggestion, nor do you have to list what music you were listening to nor list what Brand name equipment you were listening to when you had the experience you described in your reply.

David asked the question “What's up with this? Just One of the questions which I refer to as “sitting on a shelf awaiting answers”.

You gave one possible answer. But what if David replied that he had always done what you had suggested i.e. left his equipment still powered all the time but had STILL experienced the differences in the sound he described ? Which, believe it or not can actually happen !! Or what if David did what you suggested but still reported that he was still experiencing the same problems ? This would STILL leave some questions ‘sitting on a shelf awaiting answers’.

Questions such as :-

Why was the sound SO different on two separate days ?

Why, when hearing the sound so much better “the same system sounds amazing. Open, transparent, detailed, like a twenty thousand dollar reference system.” could he not hear it like that the day before”?

I say those particular questions have not been answered yet. THAT is why I challenge Michael G because Michael has constantly boasted that he has :-

>>> “Done the questions and got the answers” <<<

I am also criticised (by Michael) for quoting from other reviewers rather than describing my own experiences. I do it because THEY are merely confirming what I have experienced myself but I have always presumed that I am not really known (in the USA) from Adam but that most of the people participating in the Stereophile chat forum will have read, probably regularly over time, such as Michael Fremer’s and John Atkinson’s experiences !!! And also been aware of what other reviewers are writing in USA audio magazines.

How this can be described as ‘trolling’, I don’t understand !!!!!!!!!! Unless, of course, someone wants to use anything as a ‘stick’ with which to attempt to ‘bully’ others.

>>> “get wise, well intended and carefully thought out replies.” <<<

My replies are well intended AND carefully thought out and (even though I say it myself) bordering on wise !!!!!!!!!!!!

So, yes Ron. Let us have wise, well intended and carefully thought out replies !!!

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

Why JA continues to let the Forum garbage continue is a real disappointment. I was pleased that one of my earlier posts received his personal response, but now that I've spent a little more time here, I can't justify continuing to visit. Maybe I'll check in to see if anything improves, but it's hard to believe how irrelevant the SP Forums have become. Too few informed, open-minded, literate, members have anything worthwhile to offer.

Good luck, everybody, I hope the Forums will take a turn for the better in 2016.

pentode wrote:

Why JA continues to let the Forum garbage continue is a real disappointment. I was pleased that one of my earlier posts received his personal response, but now that I've spent a little more time here, I can't justify continuing to visit. Maybe I'll check in to see if anything improves, but it's hard to believe how irrelevant the SP Forums have become. Too few informed, open-minded, literate, members have anything worthwhile to offer.

Good luck, everybody, I hope the Forums will take a turn for the better in 2016.

That's a shame. Thanks for dropping by. Oh, well, good luck in your endeavors. Or whatever.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

God willing, I'll check back in the future. For now ... back to the future!

Maybe this will help to lighten the Vibe a tad.

We are having a blast at the CES. Started our live streaming early this morning, you can catch us at Drewster88.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

We're having a nice flow at TuneLand Vegas as well, thanks for visiting!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

How sweet, more little droppings from TombLand this morning. The land that time forgot.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

Geoffy wrote "Take a cable with a black jacket and listen to it so younger [sic] an idea what it sounds like. Then wrap the outside of the black jacket say 1/4 the length with WHITE electrical tape. Listen to the cable again. You should be able to hear the sound is better with the white tape around the jacket."

Geoffy does not know how to do a simple scientific comparison.

Read what all 5th Graders know http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_guide_index.shtml

If I'm Bugs Bunny of the forum, you must be Elmer Fudd and Michael is Porky Pig.

"Say yer pwayers, wabbit,"

Don't hurt me, Elmer.

Happy New Year, Elmer

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Geoffy wrote "...I'm Bugs Bunny..."

ChrisS wrote:

Geoffy wrote "...I'm Bugs Bunny..."

Bugs Bunny was the smart one, Elmer.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Geoffy is a cartoon and not as smart as a 5th Grader...

Geoffy wrote "Take a cable with a black jacket and listen to it so younger [sic] an idea what it sounds like. Then wrap the outside of the black jacket say 1/4 the length with WHITE electrical tape. Listen to the cable again. You should be able to hear the sound is better with the white tape around the jacket."

Go back to Grade 5, Geoffy : http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_guide_index.shtml

Learn how to do a simple scientific comparison.

As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon!"

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramamine

I'm very thankful to ChrisS for standing up for this, the greatest of hobbies!

ChrisS draws the line between geoff, May and the rest of the Stereophile audio trolls, and the Audiophile Enthusiast.

Hope everyone has a chance to look at our CES 2016 show pictures this year and years past. And as the Stereophile Members have been joining TuneLand I hope all here know how much we love having you and want to thank Stereophile for all the wonderful memories, and the memories we are making each day we greet our hobby with a smile.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

michael green, live from CES 2016
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

michael green wrote:

I'm very thankful to ChrisS for standing up for this, the greatest of hobbies!

ChrisS draws the line between geoff, May and the rest of the Stereophile audio trolls, and the Audiophile Enthusiast.

Hope everyone has a chance to look at our CES 2016 show pictures this year and years past. And as the Stereophile Members have been joining TuneLand I hope all here know how much we love having you and want to thank Stereophile for all the wonderful memories, and the memories we are making each day we greet our hobby with a smile.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

michael green, live from CES 2016
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

First off, let me say that Ron's drive by post pretending to be a moderator routine is duly noted. Guess we'll be seeing him back here in a few months. Second, I'd like to point out that for the last year or more Michael has been reduced to simply trolling for fresh recruits from Stereophile forum. I really can't say I blame him. His whole Prarie Dogs on Crack Tuning Empire is obviously in disarray. Michael has been either unable or willing to engage in much or anything lo these past twelve months or so save for all his ranting and raving directed at May and your humble scribe. One can't help but wonder - is this iBlondie's last stand? And he has proven unable to engage in either technical discussions or logical discussions. But his skill lies elsewhere, it lies in the marketing of Prarie Dogs on Crack audio Nervosa that has obviously got Michale in it's sway. All you young, gullible and naive future audiophiles out there, just walk away. Just say No. When Michael brags that people from all over the world are coming to see him at CES one can't wondering, are they just coming to see his hair?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

It is going to be an excellent 2016- guys!

Get used to it, ladies. This dog ain't going away.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Hi Allen

This was an exciting CES. I'm sure audiophiles are going to be very pleased at the new direction of the hobby. What surprised us was how quickly high end audio has adapted and adopted the present & future. Hopefully we will read much on high end audio's abilities to get somewhat back in the product developement seat. It's pretty impressive to see us go from last years CES on innovation to this years practical application. For the folks who went to this CES, they got to see how able the innovative highenders are.

I'll be posting pics over the next few days on our show Pics & Reports and on FaceBook.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

also want to link people to the thread I started on Stereophile and the condition of this particular forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

On one hand you have listeners moving forward at a fast productive pace, on the other we see interenet trolling making the Stereophile forum impotent. Will Stereophile finally step up and get with the program of banning internet trolls or stay a graveyard. The industry has made it's choice, will Stereophile, and if they don't what is the fate of the Stereophile forum. As for MGA/RoomTune we will be on the other side of the hobby hoping this forum comes along with the rest of the hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

It's everywhere!

Google search "Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica".

Heaps of poop!

michael green wrote:

Hi Allen

This was an exciting CES. I'm sure audiophiles are going to be very pleased at the new direction of the hobby. What surprised us was how quickly high end audio has adapted and adopted the present & future. Hopefully we will read much on high end audio's abilities to get somewhat back in the product developement seat. It's pretty impressive to see us go from last years CES on innovation to this years practical application. For the folks who went to this CES, they got to see how able the innovative highenders are.

I'll be posting pics over the next few days on our show Pics & Reports and on FaceBook.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t342-ces-2016-las-vegas

also want to link people to the thread I started on Stereophile and the condition of this particular forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-hobby

On one hand you have listeners moving forward at a fast productive pace, on the other we see interenet trolling making the Stereophile forum impotent. Will Stereophile finally step up and get with the program of banning internet trolls or stay a graveyard. The industry has made it's choice, will Stereophile, and if they don't what is the fate of the Stereophile forum. As for MGA/RoomTune we will be on the other side of the hobby hoping this forum comes along with the rest of the hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

I'm sure we're all very excited as your career continues to skyrocket.

Goodness, you certainly like to use the word hobby a lot. What's up with that? I suspect it's just another juvenile marketing ploy, just like all of your posts these days. Replace the word "hobby" in your tedious troll with "obsessive compulsive" and the term "high end" with "pro audio" and I'm on board. And the word "highender" with "Potential Customer." Oh, and replace the word "audiophile" with Potential ToonLand Customer. And the word "listener" with, you guessed it, "Potential Customer." All in all, a beautiful TROLL, Mr. Greed.

You realize by calling Stereophile magazine names like impotent you're uh, biting the hand that feeds you, no? Pardon me for saying so but that seems a little counterproductive. The work of an amateur Troll.

Gonna raise me an army, some tough sons of bitches
I'll recruit my army from the orphanages
I been to St. Herman's church and I've said my religious vows
I've sucked the milk out of a thousand cows

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

Hi Ron

Based on the OP and the trolling that's taking place on this thread, do you really think any serious audiophiles would wish to be here? Sorry, but at least for the time being http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/ welcomes audiophiles something that doesn't exist here and many of the members agree that while the internet trolls are here, they are not going to be.

with all do respect

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Goodnight, sweet Troll. We've been extremely fair to you here. Stop being a big baby. Have you tried hawking your wares on Hydrogen Audio?

Footnote: it appears Ron has gone bye bye again. I'm pretty sure he'll be back to straighten us out in about three months.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audiophile, Science Bored

As with any type of forum that has to do with participation of "doing the hobby", you will find that when the forum goes to speculation only, the threads and forums will go down hill fast. This goes for any forum anywhere. The Stereophile forum has taken a huge hit, because one there is no accountability, two there are no posters dedicated to long term listening threads and three the important threads turn into such bad trolling that the readers can't tell when they are being trolled or involved in truthful, serious discussions.

Until truth and ethics are restored, this forum for the most part is over and will never rise to the level of most seasoned balanced listeners. A balanced listener doesn't have any desires of going backward. Frankly we have moved on to the listening. The only reason I am here is to recruit those who do indeed want to step up their game. But this will not happen on Stereophile as long as the truly higher end "listeners" are allowed to come here without the trolling.

here's what your members say, about your forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t343-stereophile-the-other-side-of-the-h...

I have got at least 50 emails sitting here that I have not posted to add to the ones that others have sent or posted. If I opened up a call for truth exposed, you my friend would be shocked at the discuss within the hobby concerning this forum. For those listeners and many others it's simply not worth their time anymore, and honestly I don't blame them. When grown adults have no desire to separate the real from the trolls, or are not able to even tell the difference, it's pretty much a dead zone for anyone wishing to be serious.

In all truth, the smartest of all the remaining posters here is ChrisS. ChrisS spends his time solely calling out internet trolls.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Thanks for the tips on audio forums, Ron. Here are a few others you might find interesting. Audio Asylum, which has among other forums Computer Audio; Audiogon Forum, and the monopoly on audio sales; DIYAudio; Steve Hoffman Forum, Hydrogen Audio, AVS Forum, Audio Karma, Audiocircle, Head-Fi.com,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

>>> “There need not be a "mass exodus". Listeners are certainly free to visit ANY and ALL forums they wish.” <<<

Ron. You appear to have accepted – without question – the exaggeration being put forward that people are leaving the Stereophile Forum in their droves !! I am presuming that you actually believe it (that there is a “mass exodus”) or you would not have quoted it !!!
Of course people are free to visit and participate at WHATEVER level in ANY and ALL forums they wish – and I would suggest that they are doing exactly that. Many of the other Stereophile forum sections have people participating without ANYONE else insisting that they publish their equipment, or publish what they are listening to at any one point, or take part in group listening (if they wish to, then they can). It is SOOO obvious that they don’t HAVE TO do so. Nor do they have to in order to avoid being constantly attacked for choosing not to. Opinions and advice and suggestions and other’s experiences are exchanged on most of the Stereophile sections without rancour !!!!!!

>>> “Ps. I for one do not condone labeling any particular individual as "correct" or "the smartest" <<<

Yes. But exactly the same also applies to any specific individual’s techniques. No one has THE (meaning the one and only) method. No one has THE answer and no one has THE Truth !!!

THAT is what I challenge and have challenged !!! You would refer to it using the term “not condoning such a claim”. I describe it as “challenging” such a claim. Both approaches actually mean the same.

Geoff knows that everything in the listening environment affects the sound. I know that. Michael Green knows that. But this means EVERYTHING (including things which do not fit into conventional electronic or acoustic theories) and also means both fixed AND variable ‘tweaks’ !!

You only have to have been involved in the audio industry for the past 60 years (as I have), or to have continually read of other people’s experiences (covering over 30 years) regarding just what they have ‘heard’ can affect the sound to realise that all is not yet understood as to WHY such things can affect the sound – it is all still at the stage of the questions HOW and WHY and WHAT ON EARTH is going on ?

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

To reinforce what May posted regarding the accusation by Ron and Michael that people are leaving the forum in droves, can I point out the following observations? One, there are quite a few folks who read these threads who do not post. You know, lurkers. Not that there's anything wrong with that. One can get the general idea how many lurkers there actually are by observing the large number of views on the Geoff Kait and May Belt thread, what is it 33,000 + views? Contrast that to 518 posts. Capish? Another observation is that it was primarily the anti tweak crowd who left the forums during the past year, not the neutral scaredy cat crowd as Ron and Michael allege, the crowd that is scared off by my "trollish behavior." Give me a break. One assumes they're referring to the ones that are young and naive and susceptible to being Ajaxed by the Tuning Federation since that was obviously Michael's sole motive for posting here. Duh! If anything people,have been repelled by Michael's continued personal attacks and bold non-stop trolling for new recruits.

And finally I'd like to make the rather obvious observation that it is actually Ron and Michael who left the forum, not some anonymous droves of audiophiles. Give me a break. Oh sure, Michael still shows up from time to time to paint a link to ToonLand but that's about it, and to rant and rail against me and May. Other that that nada. As for Ron he likes to pop in and pretend to be part of the in crowd but actually he just want to be the moderator here and remind us of his PhD and science foundation status. A foundation that one actually assumes he is no longer even affiliated with.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

Thanks to the AVS Forum guys, I built my first sub for my LaScala's. The DIY group are fantastic people with a passion for helping out when you have a question. I have a pdf of the plans if anyone wants it. Great for a small music room.

Great to see AVS represented, thanks Steve!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Ron's absence, you know, Ron, the one who started this thread, Let's Bring Back These Forums, is duly noted. Ron! Come back! Ron! Come back!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica