>>> "this topic (whatever it is) will remain complicated and controversial for a good long while -- that's just the nature of the beast. I'll close this thread now...........
I hope we can move forward in an interesting and intelligent direction." <<<
Just closing the "Visit to Mikey's" thread, Stephen, does not end the discussion and does not end controversy. It is already continuing under other threads.
Practically every 'thread' I have responded to seems to have been "closed". If it is because it evolved into just a succession of abuse, then I can fully understand why but it also means that anything remotely controversial will, automatically, end up the same way - being 'closed' !!!! Abuse and controversy has to be kept separated !!!!!!!
To cut down to the core, to put it in a 'nutshell' as it were.
People of intelligence and experience in audio and, (often) a lifetimes experience in listening to music, describe hearing improvements in their sound by doing something unusual.
They end up being attacked by some other people saying that "physics does not allow for what they have described to have actually happened".
Now, the crucial thing is that the people making their (listening) experiences known are NOT going against 'physics' as in the EXTREME example of "hearing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata when there was NO disc whatsoever (of any description) playing in the machine" i.e NO music whatsoever playing - which, obviously, WOULD be going against 'physics' !!!!!!!!!!!!
NOR are they believing EVERY UFO sighting or EVERY Alien abduction - or any other of the extreme disparaging and dismissive remarks aimed at them !!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, they are merely describing what they have heard - which most of them are intelligent enough to already KNOW would be difficult to explain from within the conventional (audio) way of looking at physics - nevertheless, they know what they heard and they wish to pass that information on to others.
To quote John Atkinson again from the video of the Stereophile talk at the Montreal show.
>>> "There are things that boggle my mind in High End audio. There are things that I would like to think I understand (from a technical and engineering point of view) and then something happens which literally blows my mind and it doesn't fit the world view (of audio)." <<<
So, could we START at the point where most intelligent people are already perfectly AWARE that applying a demagnetiser to a Vinyl disc or a CD should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!!
That (such as) marking the edge of a CD with a colour should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!
That (such as) cryogenically freezing a CD should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!
The crucial words are "That it does" - not that it can't i.e that conventional physics does not allow it !!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, nothing which is challenging or controversial can be worked through in a discussion - it will always end up being 'closed'.
Regards,
May Belt.
>>> "this topic (whatever it is) will remain complicated and controversial for a good long while -- that's just the nature of the beast. I'll close this thread now...........
I hope we can move forward in an interesting and intelligent direction." <<<
Just closing the "Visit to Mikey's" thread, Stephen, does not end the discussion and does not end controversy. It is already continuing under other threads.
Practically every 'thread' I have responded to seems to have been "closed". If it is because it evolved into just a succession of abuse, then I can fully understand why but it also means that anything remotely controversial will, automatically, end up the same way - being 'closed' !!!! Abuse and controversy has to be kept separated !!!!!!!
To cut down to the core, to put it in a 'nutshell' as it were.
People of intelligence and experience in audio and, (often) a lifetimes experience in listening to music, describe hearing improvements in their sound by doing something unusual.
They end up being attacked by some other people saying that "physics does not allow for what they have described to have actually happened".
Now, the crucial thing is that the people making their (listening) experiences known are NOT going against 'physics' as in the EXTREME example of "hearing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata when there was NO disc whatsoever (of any description) playing in the machine" i.e NO music whatsoever playing - which, obviously, WOULD be going against 'physics' !!!!!!!!!!!!
NOR are they believing EVERY UFO sighting or EVERY Alien abduction - or any other of the extreme disparaging and dismissive remarks aimed at them !!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, they are merely describing what they have heard - which most of them are intelligent enough to already KNOW would be difficult to explain from within the conventional (audio) way of looking at physics - nevertheless, they know what they heard and they wish to pass that information on to others.
To quote John Atkinson again from the video of the Stereophile talk at the Montreal show.
>>> "There are things that boggle my mind in High End audio. There are things that I would like to think I understand (from a technical and engineering point of view) and then something happens which literally blows my mind and it doesn't fit the world view (of audio)." <<<
So, could we START at the point where most intelligent people are already perfectly AWARE that applying a demagnetiser to a Vinyl disc or a CD should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!!
That (such as) marking the edge of a CD with a colour should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!
That (such as) cryogenically freezing a CD should not be giving an improvement in the sound - but that it does, for quite a number of people !!!!!!!!!!
The crucial words are "That it does" - not that it can't i.e that conventional physics does not allow it !!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, nothing which is challenging or controversial can be worked through in a discussion - it will always end up being 'closed'.
Regards,
May Belt.