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August 12, 2014 - 5:28pm
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How much power to drive these speakers?
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Your speakers are pretty sensitive and rated at 8 ohm. Are you listening in a large room? Do you get more satisfying volume levels with your tuner as opposed to your tt?
Thanks for the suggestion Catch22. I switched to my tuner and yes the speakers sound 100% better. Much more volume but more than that is sounds much less strained and the bass is much fuller leading to a much richer sound.
Does this mean to weakness is in my sansui phono input. Would it make sense then to invest in a separate preamp? Would that give me significantly more volume/better bass ect?
Thanks
You might want to try the other phono input on your receiver to see if it sounds better. I would also double check the tracking force on your cartridge. It's designed to be kinda low at 1.25 gm max. It puts out 4mv so it's certainly compatible with the mm phono inputs. It's also pretty standard at 47k.
If you do go with an outboard phono stage, you'll want to hook it up via one of the line level inputs and NOT via the phono inputs on the receiver. You may or may not get an improvement with an outboard phono stage. It depends on how well the turntable is handling the cartridge and the tt's capabilities to begin with...which are suspect in that it's a Realistic and very old.
You have very good speakers that should work well with just about any amplifier. The rest of your stuff could all use an upgrade and so where to start really depends on how much you want to spend. In that you have a vintage setup, I'd try getting the most out of it first. Clean all your connections, stylus and adjust the tracking force and switch phono inputs and re-evaluate things from there.
Thanks again. I did switch phono inputs and they both sound the same. The cart is brand new (maybe 5 hours of listening in). The other thing is hooking the TT up to my main home theater system which is more power doesn't have the same strain. Since the amp can drive the speakers as you have pointed out it seems that shouldn't be the first thing to replace. I am hesitant to drop 200+ on a phono pre-amp tho if it doesn't result in a significant improvement. I may just have to pull the trigger and find out.
The only other thing... I didn't go crazy setting up the cart as some of the articles by Fremer describe. I just eyeballed it and put the screws in the middle of the headshell. I should say that the detail and clarity is quite good at lower volume.
Thanks for your time.
The thing most people do not understand is that POWER IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE!!!
A good 40 watt amp with low distortion will blow away a 100+ watt cheap receiver, which can put out that power when hooked to an 8 ohm resistor on a test bench, but distorts like hell when asked to put out much smaller amounts of power to a REAL SPEAKER!
A REAL SPEAKER has inductance and capacitance in its drivers and crossovers, and cheap amplifiers with cheap power supplies go bananas and distort at even very small power levels. Another problem is that your speakers, according to the Cnet review of them, are 4 ohm speakers; not 8 ohms. This makes the amplifier choice even more critical.
The first thing you need to do is get a better amplifier that will distort much less driving real speakers. The Harman-Kardon HK3700 Stereo Receiver is $350 from Amazon, and is what I would recommend. It has 80 watts per channel, and is quite good-sounding for its price.
The NAD C326BEE is a very good amp, but is $549.
The second thing is to get a better phono preamp, like the ProJect Phono Box MM, for example; it is a good one for only $99. It will be a BIG improvement.
The HK3700 does have its own phono stage built in, so you may want to get it and try it before buying a new phono preamp.
Separate preamps and amplifiers are not something to consider unless you have several thousand dollars to spend.
Integrated amplifiers are a much better value until you get up there.
Here is the information I have on the speakers.
Specifications System Type: 2 way bookshelf loudspeaker with shielded drivers, rear vented bass reflex design Max. Load Weight (lbs): 12 lbs / 5.5 kg Frequency Response: 50Hz-25kHz ± 3dB Recommended: up to 175 watts RMS Input: Dual 5-way nickel-plated binding posts Sensitivity: 90dB Impedance: 8 ohms nominal; 4 ohms minimum Included: Rubber bumpers, port plug, built-in 3/8-16 threaded insert Tweeter: One 1" tweeter with aluminum dome and neodymium motor with heat sink Overall Dimensions: 13
I'm not sure what "8 ohms nominal / 4ohms minimum" means and if it means that they are 4ohm.
The review on audioholics describes them saying "In terms of performance, the Veritas V-5.1 has a frequency response of 50 Hz to 25 kHz +/- 3dB. It has a sensitivity rating of 90dB at 1 W, 1 meter which is very efficient. You may not be able to drive this speaker with a 9V battery, but it's close. " This seems to conflict with your assessment.
I am very open to the idea that the problem is my amp as it is a pretty cheap vintage amp. I just want to make the right choice.
I did some more listening to try to determine the weakness in my current set up. I hooked up the speaker and TT to my HT amp which is a yamaha RX-V1600.
I noticed the sound was much less muddy and more authoritative. But listening to a Bob Dylan album the harmonic sounds were so bright it was really fatiguing to my ears. The pops and hisses were also more audible (records were not super clean).
Ideally I could find a way to combine the warmth of the sansui sound with the clarity of the yamaha. Overall I find the sansui much more pleasing to listen to but just wish I could clarify the sound and add some punch. Do you think adding a preamp to the sansui could accomplish this? Or should I just scrap it and go with another amp such as an integrated NAD? $300 or so would be a realistic short term budget for this which makes me think I could probably get more out of a preamp like music hall/cambridge audio. I wish I knew how good the preamps were in some of these integrated amps. Would a music hall preamp blow away the phono stage in a NAD C 326BEE? If not it would seem to make more sense to save up for the amp.
A few days ago I replaced my Yamaha htr with a MH 15.3 integrated. I have not heard many other Yamaha amps but the sound comes across at first as clear but the brightness makes it fatiguing to listen too. The MH is much clearer and punchy. The brightness is gone and I am picking out nuances that the yammy smeared.
I've yet to a-b the phono stage with my diy tube driven unit which I have always liked the sound of. I suspect the built in MH stage will triumph. The sound is so different- not warm, but just clear and dynamic.
My whole point is just to share my impressions of Yamaha vs MH sound. I could never go back from here. I don't even want to keep the yammy as a backup.
The rest of my system:
PSB Image B6
Klipsch 12in sub
Music Hall mmf 2.2 w magic 2 cart
Halide DAC HD and windows laptop
I just love this integrated.
I have a perfectly good Carver power amp on the shelf in my closet. It is the best sounding thing I ever heard.
model no.; TFM-6CB. I believe it has 80, or maybe 100 watts per channel(two channels)
I'll probably never use it again, so if anyone here would like it,respond in the forum and I'll mail it to you, FOR FREE!!!
It's in brand new condition. Analog inputs and outputs.
You could easily sell it. I love carver equipment and would gladly take it off your hands.
my email; david793_2000@yahoo.com