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Hey, Winer, since you say you're so liberal in your beliefs, answer me this.
When our last President set up Free Speech Zones that couldn't be less than a mile away from his parade route or where he appeared, did you agree with that policy?
When he pre-screened everyone entering his townhall meetings so he'd never hear the word "disagree", did you think that was fair?
When he couldn't think of any area where he was wrong because he never allowed the idea anywhere close to him, did you think that meant he was always right?
When he went through his eight years never hearing a word of dissent from the other side, did you think he was a coward?
If you're so in favor of fairness in public forums, why do you support so many dissenting voices being put on permanent "ignore" by so many on your side? Why have you put people who disagree with you on "ignore"?
Cowards: 0
Thinkers: 10
Yeah. Who'd a thunk it would be the subjectivists who would be the ones to stonewall a tweak thread?
"You forgot to mention that Geoff Kait refuses to describe his hi-fi system for fear of ridicule."
If it's OK for Woody to pose as a person of importance, then I suppose it's Ok for you to pose as someone of importance, too.
JBLs and Crown amps? Most audiophiles have progressed since the '80s.
Yeah, we should be ridiculing Ethan's equipment, not talking about what we listen to ourselves or what tweaks we like and don't.
Good point, Geoff!
You'll notice I even said Pretty Please. Geoff is as lame as Jan, maybe even more so because every once in a while Jan makes a good point. Versus Geoff who never has anything useful to offer. Geoff will never tell us what speakers and other gear he uses, he'll only ridicule the speakers and gear of me and others. It's congenital with these guys. They simply can't do it.
--Ethan
Geoff, I outlined my technique with the demagger in a previous post. Just to refresh your memory. I energise the demagger away from the disc and then slowly rotate it in from above. I gave it a good soak with the field for around a minute or so, slowly rotating and spiralling so as to give the disk an even treatment, like painting it. Then I slowly rotate the demagger away before switching off over a metre away from the disc. This is the same method I used years ago when demagging the heads on everything from cassette machines to Studer 24 track recorders. Oops, sorry to name drop professional machines like that....
"Yeah, we should be ridiculing Ethan's equipment, not talking about what we listen to ourselves or what tweaks we like and don't."
All together now: Yes, Miss Goodcorset !
Speaking of bullshit, in the thread about those Synergistic magic resonator bowls, es347 wrote:
Do we know whatever happened to his report? I was really looking forward to it!
--Ethan
BTW, does anyone rember the brand/model of the digital recorder that DUP was so impressed with last year? A friend of mine is after such a machine.
http://www.proaudioreview.com/article/2560
"This is the same method I used years ago when demagging the heads on everything from cassette machines to Studer 24 track recorders. Oops, sorry to name drop professional machines like that.... "
I take you wish to do things your way. OK, you're the expert. You're obviously pleased with the results
Thanks Ethan
Yes Geoff, I'm doing things my way... it's my experiment. Do you have any experience using a demagger? How would you suggest the demagger is applied to the disc?
Do you have any experience using a demagger? How would you suggest the demagger is applied to the disc?
Only about 25 years. :-) I push the ON button well away from disc, rotate the demag over the label side not more than *2 seconds* total, release the ON button when demag well away from CD. I keep demag about one inch above CD surface. Similar to your technique except the time of treatment.
Geoff, does this mean you've been demagging CDs for 25 years?
You'll never get that time back!
Or were you using a demagger for its intended purpose ie demagnetizing objects which are capable of being magnetized?
A distinction: Anything can be treated with a demagnetizer, whether it is capable of being magnetized, or not.
As you said, it's your experiment. On the other hand, never send a boy to do a man's job.
Cheerio
Another "rye" comment from the peanut gallery.
Please, coming from you, I'd rather not have the flattery.
Yes, because if it is a demagnetizer, that must be the only thing that is doing.
Keep thinking INSIDE the box, Geoff.
You sound just like Ethan.
Congratulations!
Not at all! I too have used demagnetizers for many years - far longer than Geoff. They also get warm so you could heat up a leftover sandwich. They also draw a known amount of electricity so in a pinch you could use one to calibrate a watt-hour meter. The big ones for erasing 2-inch tape are very heavy, so you could drop it on Jan's big toe when he pisses you off by not admitting which tweaks were ineffective. The possibilities are endless!
--Ethan
A sage observation Ethan. Perhaps Geoff will tell us what he's been demagnetizing for 25 years. Or perhaps he'll give us a rundown on his HiFi system.
*crickets chirping*
Perhaps he's busy affixing stickers to clocks or filling jars with magic pebbles.
"Never send a boy to do a mans job" You're good at the insults Geoff, pity it doesn't move this thread any further ahead.
But this does?!
And then you hide behind the "ignore" feature!
You guys are getting more ridiculous everyday.
"Think inside the box."
Buddha, Helpful Hint: Prior to shooting the gun, put a bullet in it.
Fresh Clip, you're obviously out of ammo and in need of a fresh clip so let me help you out. Use wisely.
From Naysayers Bible (Zen & Art of Debunkery):
<> Ridicule, ridicule, ridicule. It is far and away the single most effective weapon in the war against discovery and innovation.
<> Trivialize the case by trivializing the entire field in question. Characterize the study of orthodox ideas (like Professional audio :-)) as Deep and Time-consuming and that of unorthodox ideas as Shallow and Insignificant. If pressed hard on this point simply say, "there's nothing there to study, it's bogus!"
<> Accuse the other side of believing in "invisible forces." If the other side points out that Physical Science has ALWAYS had to deal with "invisible forces" (e.g., gravity, EMI/RFI, magnetism, electricity, etc.) respond with a condescending chuckle, "That's "a naive interpretation of the facts."
Watch out Fresh Clip, you've driven Geoff into reruns.
Point, game, set...to Fresh Clip for bringing out Geoff's objective/rule based limits.
Never thought I'd see Geoff run out of obtuse quips, but here we are. I guess there are only so many colors of pebble, so to speak. Killer work, Fresh, you've gotten Geoff into cut/paste mode...and he's so ferklempt, it's the same ol' cut and paste!
So, Fresh Clip has established:
1) The subjectivist tweaker crowd hears the results of tweaks they haven't tried, and will defend them vehemently.
2) The subjectivist rule book states that the first rule of subjectivist tweaks is to not talk about the results of subjectivist tweaks. No wonder they come off so much like they are in fight club.
3) Subjectivist tweakers can't talk about the reference gear they use. That way they can snipe without fear of retort.
4) Wherever a tweak discussion goes, the subjectivist tweakers will dash into the area and claim they lead us there.
5) Subjectivist tweakers must never disagree with each other, like the Republican party line in Congress. To disagree may set that person outside the herd.
The great news is that we are developing a quick reference to know when someone is a smoke blower: Ask him/her what tweaks he/she doesn't notice improving the sound of his/her system and what gear they listen with. When they refuse to answer, move on...they've proven they have no credibility.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!
More made up crap! Copied and pasted from previous posts no less!!! Thanks, your old made up crap was getting stale.
Oh, that's right, you don't see me, you just want to insult me and the other folks who do think for themself around here. Brave man, booooood"Ha!", brave indeed!
Buddha-
I consider myself a subjective tweaker AND open-minded skeptic and NONE of those things apply to me. I'll be glad to discuss my equipment, hell I started a thread trying to get forum members to do the same and only four participated (http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=60397&an=0&page=0#Post60397) which is really sad considering that we are all supposedly here to discuss high end audio. I'm also more than glad to discuss what I heard from implementing any single tweak in my system. If you are so inclined just ask. For the record I never advocate tweaks that I haven't tried, but I will defend the POSSIBILITY that they MAY work. Because I operate on what I call the modified Ivor Tiefenbrun Principle, "If you haven
If you talk about your gear and the tweak results you get, you can't be in Tweak Club.
Better watch out. I think he means business.
There you are!
Is that a pic of a protype of your "Sentient Cigar" Tweak?
Don't tell me, you specially treat them without needing to actually open the pack!
Glad to see you sticking to Tweak Club rules.
RG-
It was meant as a constructive thread (as mentioned in it's introduction) not as a bragging thread (also CLEARLY stated in the preface.) How would you propose the "What's in your System" thread be changed to make it more useful?
Obviously it would be impossible for me (or anyone for that matter) to have heard EVERY piece of audio gear ever made. But that doesn't make the exercise useless. If I have experience with a brand they all have a "house sound." Even if I haven't heard the specific components I would have a half way decent idea of how they would sound together if I've heard other components from that manufacturer built around the same time period. Having some information is better than having none at all. If the premise is so laughable why do reviewers in magazines list their associated equipment? Would you not object if they stopped doing so? That associated equipment list brings a whole new level of understanding to the reviews when I read them. Knowing what gear someone is listening to CERTAINLY gives insight into their goals and biases for those who have a wide enough experience with various audio gear.
With "snipe" the key word.
Reference gear? Oh, you mean like JBLs and Crown amps?
Hey Buddha, you've been around here longer than me. Has Geoff Kait ever contributed anything of substance in these forums? BTW, this is a serious question, not a snipe at Geoff.
--Ethan
Consider "The laughable premise of the thread you started is useless according to your principle" as a typical response from a small but dedicated and nasty group of forum members and you should be able to figure out why so few participated in your thread. It's like answering any of Buddha's questions. Why set youself up for what will inevitably follow?
If we were all actually here to discuss audio, your thread would have made perfect sense. But that isn't why a lot of people stay around here as evidenced by the answers you received here.
I think Geoff's dissertation proposal requires he not bias his experiment by allowing his subjects to know the gear he uses.
When he finally publishes his results I'm sure it will be explained in his footnotes.
"Expectation bias in a self-selected neurotic population..."
I wonder if the whole Amazing Randi - Machina Dynamica thing is a Borat style stunt to add to the illusion.
There's more to Geoff than you think, Ethan! He gives clues about it from time to time.
So there's your answer from boooood"Ha!".
There is a group on this forum who don't want to discuss anything here. Their purpose for being here is pretty obviously not to discuss anything.
They are putting anyone who disagrees on "ignore" while they continue to insult them. They listen only to the echo of their own posts and nothing else. Even when someone like you says, "I have something to discuss", you get shut down with another insult which is followed by more insults. Then they hide behind "ignore".
What do you suppose their purpose on this forum would be? Do you suppose they are interested in having a thriving discussion forum where everyone particpates in a "discussion"?
Winer mentioned "two forums", one for them and the other for those who aren't them.
I see a schoolyard clique of spoiled brats. A bunch of little, immature children trying desparately to convince themself they are superior to everyone else. A half dozen or so "Eddie Haskells" running around on this forum.
there is really nothing to Kait from where I sit. He is nothing more than a troll, posting autistic one liners that have nothing to do with anything, with the occasional offensive comment(like comparing veterans with Brain injured patients) thrown in to further confirm to all that can see that he is , for lack of a better term, a fool.
Seriously..copy and paste all his posts into a .txt file. add up the things that make sense. youll have a total of nothing. he appears to be autistic, which of course accounts for some of the stuff that he says. It also gives some insight into those wonderful, revolutionary products of his..., after all, to believe in any of that shlock, one would have to be in some way seperated from reality.
what does he contribute? the autistic shtick gets old after a while, yet he continues on..
nothing to him, really. what you see here pretty much sums it up. red flags. avoid.
So what is it with "you guys" that you can't make a post without a dozen personal insults?
Want to know what sort of "autistic schtick" gets old in a very short while, ncdrawl?
You haven't been here long enough to be making these sorts of conclusions about any one member, ncdrawl, but I can point to several forum members who have contributed far less that could remotely be considered "of value" compared to the direction geoff has tried to take the discussion here. And they have spent far more time on this forum achieving far less than what geoff has managed.
Why don't you put together geoff's posts (http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/dosearch.php?Cat=0&Forum=All_Forums&Name=8414&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&&fromsearch=1&fromprof=1) and really take a look at what he has said. Then look at the response to each post. What has happened every time geoff said "this is what I believe happens" or "this is how I see things operating"?
Want me to save you the time and tell you what has happened? He's been shouted down like all the rest of us who try to discuss anything that falls outside of the narrow confines of the uber-cynics who even argue over the value of leveling a CD player. That's what has happened and you've even been a part of it, ncdrawl. There has been no discussion allowed, only ridicule and dismissal by "your side" when anyone outside of your all white country club membership group says "this is what I believe".
You disagree with geoff's approach to audio and you have some strange gripe about one post so that gives you the ability to label him an autistic troll and a fool?! What a sad state of affairs that is. ncdrawl, you get to work out your own problems with geoff on your own time but this is bullshit and, if you were being reasonable about it, you would realize how bigotted your comments are. But it's easier to join the group that shuts down discussion than join the group that wants all things to be discussed.
If you don't care for geoff, place him on "ignore", that's why the function is available on this forum. End of story, end of your little rant above. It's a poor solution but it's one that's available in some cases.
But what you've posted - as unreasonable and immature as it is - doesn't excuse the others who have used the "ignore" function as a place to isolate themself from anyone who would care to disagree with their autocratic opinions. They have used the generosity of the Stereophile forum to establish their own little playground where only their opinion can be heard and only their opinions can be "right". Doesn't this sound just a bit like the partisanship of AM talk radio to you, ncdrawl? Doesn't a constant refrain of "measurements, measurements, measurements" sound just a bit like "tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts"? Do you truly believe there is only one way to do this hobby? Must we all toe the same company line?
What purpose does it serve to a discussion forum to limit what you see to only those topics a small group cares to have echo around the minority of members who cannot tolerate another voice? Do you think that advances anything other than their own egos? They get to insult everyone and never hear a response back at them. Is that not a display of invertebrate behavior that can only damage the forum?
What you've just posted, ncdrawl, isn't an answer to that question, it is just more of the same from one who chooses to be a part of that minority. So why don't you step back for a minute and look at what has been created here. Take off your blinkers and tell me what good is there in a forum where discussion is shut down. And tell me why these are still the people you respect and choose to partner with.
I don't have time to hunt for clues. So I'll take that as a No.
--Ethan
Yet more proof Winer doesn't bother looking when he has already decided what he'll find.
Like we needed more proof.
Ethan Winer - today's most non-curious person - in - the - world!!!
The past 5 years illustrate just how many audiophiles relish fighting tooth and nail on audio forums to try and prove there's nothing new under the sun. And how widespread. Witness the Intelligent Chip Free-for-all on Audio Asylum that raged 24/7 for most of 2005. Ah, those were halcyon days: long, emotion-invested Threads of Gold. Naysayers can be SO emotional.
Audiogon has its own band of monkeys, sometimes those monkeys bite, but mostly they just want to play. And Audio Karma and Outlaw Audio, Audio Circle, and DIY Audio, I won't even mention Polk Audio or Audio Review. Pure Naysayer Gold.
So, if your pleasure is Schumann Resonators, Photon Canons like Nespa, Mpingo discs, ionizers, polarizers, crystal resonators, treated Clocks, Bybee bullets, scattered laser light absorbers or demagnetizers, be prepared for a some hilarious, angry, sometimes heartfelt, reactions from the local establishment on any audio site you can name. Who knows, you might even get a sort of bored raised eyebrow from Randi.
Perhaps a group of deprogrammers can break through, although I doubt it. As Charlie Manson once opined, you can't kill kill.
thats about the 3rd time youve given that manson spiel."Stereotyped and repetitive use of language. People with autism often repeat over and over a phrase they have heard previously"
more nothingness. I am a regular supporter of the Autism Society of America. I am hopeful that one day this disease will be a thing of the past.
"Thats about the 3rd time you've given that Manson spiel."
And here I thought noone noticed. I admit it's a favorite of mine.
"I am a regular supporter of the Autism Society of America."
Well, good for you! You're obviously a very special person.
~ Geoff Kait, Former stand-up comic
you are still quite funny..well...nothing you say is funny, but those products of yours are a riot. i dont think ive ever seen a set of products(well, other than PWB) inspire so much laughter.
OK, ncdrawl, I can see why you want to hang out with "that" crowd. It would simply be too difficult to actually discuss any of this in an adult manner, wouldn't it? Much easier just to insult the other person.
How old are you, ncdrawl?
Old enough to have outgrown this sort of bullshit behavior?
So, what happened to you?
"You are still quite funny..well...nothing you say is funny, but those products of yours are a riot. i dont think ive ever seen a set of products(well, other than PWB) inspire so much laughter."
Well, they say laughter is the best medicine. Speaking of which, what medication are you currently off?
Ta, Ta for now
who pulled your chain?
I was talking to rain man.
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