The key to a good sounding system is getting all the parts to work together. Warm is relative and how warm you want the system is always relative. Additionally, pairing is important. If you pair a warm speaker with a neutral amp, you will get a slightly warm sound. If you pair a warm speaker with a warm amp you will get a really warm sound.

Secondarily, 0ne of the challenges with these small bookshelf speaker is that they tend to be relatively inefficient. For instance, the Kef LS50s and those B&W CM6 S2 can't be driven well by a 50w amplifier and will sound underwhelming. You need 70-80w at minimum to drive those speakers well.

If you want a warm speaker, consider the Wharfedale Jade 3s. They are a lovely detailed speaker that is a hair warm. However, they are not terribly efficient and you will need a bit more oomph to drive them just like the Kefs or the B&Ws.

If you were to take those and pair it with something like the Musical Fidelity M3Si at 85w into 8 ohms which is a slightly forward amp, you should get a slightly warm and very detailed sound. It has a decent internal phono stage and a USB DAC.

Alternatively, you could select a more neutral speaker like the Monitor Audio Gold 50s and pair it with a power amp like the Rega Elex R. The Golds are a gorgeous speaker and I love the ribbon tweeter. Rega produces decidedly warm power amps that will pair nicely with something like the Monitor Audio's and it has a fabulous internal phono stage.

Roksan also makes great power amps and for the money, so does Marantz.

For speakers, the Wharfedale Jades, Revel Performa3 M105s, Monitor Audio Silver and Gold lines, the PSB Imagine Bs, Dali Mentors and the you may want to check out the Rega RX-1s.

In the end, you will demo and decide what you like. The biggest issue is that until you get the system into your home, you won't know how it sounds. Depending on how damped your room is will have a huge impact on how warm or cool a speaker will sound. Secondarily, speaker placement can have a monstrous impact on sound. In a perfect world, you will buy your equipment from a place with a 30 or 60 day return policy.

I like this article because it illustrates the point regarding damping

http://www.stereophile.com/content/tale-two-speakers#D8ojhuzLtH35oF1A.97

I can also say from personal experience, placement is so critical and can have a monstrous impact on your sound that once you get the system in your room, you will need to spend a lot of time getting your sound tuned in.

When I moved, I considered selling my Revel's and replacing them because they sounded extremely warm when in reality my placement sucked. Now that I have my placement right, I am struggling to find a speaker that I think is better as I have been considering upgrading. I would also encourage you to add a sealed subwoofer to any pair of bookshelf speakers.

Good luck

[quote=bfgmartin]Hi there,

I'm returning to the world of hifi and looking to get a quality stereo amp and book shelf/standmount speakers. Will be adding a turntable, phono stage, and streamer if the latter two aren't built in.

I listen to a lot of acoustic music (as well as a spread of classical, jazz, and alt pop/rock) so favour a warmer sound with a rich mid range, outstanding vocals, detailed but not overly analytical, and especially dislike overly bright/sharp sound as I find it just get tiring. One challenge is the speakers need to be close to the rear wall so rear-ported is probably a bad idea.

I will second the suggestion of the Musical Fidelity M3si integrated amplifier; I think that is a good place to start. It puts out almost 100 watts per channel at either 4 or 8 ohms (according to an independent lab test), so it will drive almost any speakers well, and its sound quality is very nice. It also has an excellent phono preamp included.

I had one for a couple of years connected to a pair of Vandersteen 3A speakers and it was very nice.

For speakers, I think that the NHT Classic 3 speakers would be a good choice for the type of listening you indicate. They are excellent speakers and have no ports. Their sensitivity of 87 db/watt is quite compatible with the MF amplifier.

Another good choice would be the Focal Chorus 706 speakers; they are very nice. They have a front port, so placement is not critical. They have an even higher sensitivity of 90 db/watt.

There are many good turntables available, but I prefer The Music Hall MMF-7.
It has many good features, including a motor that is completely isolated from the turntable itself. I have had mine for several years and love it.

commsysman][quote=bfgmartin wrote:

Hi there,

I'm returning to the world of hifi and looking to get a quality stereo amp and book shelf/standmount speakers. Will be adding a turntable, phono stage, and streamer if the latter two aren't built in.

I listen to a lot of acoustic music (as well as a spread of classical, jazz, and alt pop/rock) so favour a warmer sound with a rich mid range, outstanding vocals, detailed but not overly analytical, and especially dislike overly bright/sharp sound as I find it just get tiring. One challenge is the speakers need to be close to the rear wall so rear-ported is probably a bad idea.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I will second the suggestion of the Musical Fidelity M3si integrated amplifier; I think that is a good place to start. It puts out almost 100 watts per channel at either 4 or 8 ohms (according to an independent lab test), so it will drive almost any speakers well, and its sound quality is very nice. It also has an excellent phono preamp included.

I had one for a couple of years connected to a pair of Vandersteen 3A speakers and it was very nice.

For speakers, I think that the NHT Classic 3 speakers would be a good choice for the type of listening you indicate. They are excellent speakers and have no ports. Their sensitivity of 87 db/watt is quite compatible with the MF amplifier.

Another good choice would be the Focal Chorus 706 speakers; they are very nice. They have a front port, so placement is not critical. They have an even higher sensitivity of 90 db/watt.

There are many good turntables available, but I prefer The Music Hall MMF-7.
It has many good features, including a motor that is completely isolated from the turntable itself. I have had mine for several years and love it.

commsysman][quote=commsysman wrote:

bfgmartin wrote:

Hi there,

I'm returning to the world of hifi and looking to get a quality stereo amp and book shelf/standmount speakers. Will be adding a turntable, phono stage, and streamer if the latter two aren't built in.

I listen to a lot of acoustic music (as well as a spread of classical, jazz, and alt pop/rock) so favour a warmer sound with a rich mid range, outstanding vocals, detailed but not overly analytical, and especially dislike overly bright/sharp sound as I find it just get tiring. One challenge is the speakers need to be close to the rear wall so rear-ported is probably a bad idea.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is considerable synergy between the amplifier and speakers. I suggest that you get the Musical Fidelity amplifier and then take it with you to audition speakers (or better yet get the speakers to your home, where your acoustics will come into play). It would be a mistake to audition speakers with various amplifiers and try to come to any useful conclusions; too many variables.

I will second the suggestion of the Musical Fidelity M3si integrated amplifier; I think that is a good place to start. It puts out almost 100 watts per channel at either 4 or 8 ohms (according to an independent lab test), so it will drive almost any speakers well, and its sound quality is very nice. It also has an excellent phono preamp included.

I had one for a couple of years connected to a pair of Vandersteen 3A speakers and it was very nice.

For speakers, I think that the NHT Classic 3 speakers would be a good choice for the type of listening you indicate. They are excellent speakers and have no ports. Their sensitivity of 87 db/watt is quite compatible with the MF amplifier.

Another good choice would be the Focal Chorus 706 speakers; they are very nice. They have a front port, so placement is not critical. They have an even higher sensitivity of 90 db/watt.

There are many good turntables available, but I prefer The Music Hall MMF-7.
It has many good features, including a motor that is completely isolated from the turntable itself. I have had mine for several years and love it.

Hi. I'll echo Bierfeldt's suggestions on the Wharfedale Jade 3, they're brilliant speakers and, if I had the room to accomodate them, that's what I'd have now. Revel Performa M106 are also worth considering. Also, a +1 to the importance of matching the components.

Also, after narrowing stuff down, try to audition in your own home.

The ATCs will sound neutral no matter what you throw at them, that's their blessing and their curse - of course, they will benefit from a strong valve amp, but I can't think of any - within budget, that is. One amp worth serious consideration for ATC is Hegel H160 - it has the power and smoothness to match them.

However, if it fits your budget, check out a Jadis Orchestra tube amp, it's absolutely stunning - and find speakers to match that (heard it with Focal Electra standmounts, and, although they can sound too forward, the pairing was amazing).

To summarize, Jadis Orchestra, Hegel H160 for amps. Or Naim SN2 + Spendor/Harbeth.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Croft amps might be exactly what you want - be it their integrated or pre+power. Just make sure you get the right speakers for them.

IMO all that matters is that you like it. This means that the system delivers the volume levels you want and a sound profile you enjoy. Who cares what we think and incidentally, AudioNote most definitely is high fidelity.

Big smiles from me bfgmartin!

I'll be honest, when reading the other responses I was asking myself "are these guys not hearing the OP"? When reading your latest post a big smile came over me. Martin, your totally on the right path. I would recommend giving Harold Cooper a call or email. Here's his website http://www.soundconsultant.com/ . Not only ask him about the Audio Note but also the Audolici A25-M. http://www.soundconsultant.com/audolici-usa . Harold has an excellent ear and knows both of these companies well.

Also don't worry about the right or wrong of the Audio Note. If you hook up with the right audio consultant they will know how to get you the sound you want.

Good luck and if there is anything I can help you with as far as voicing in the system once you get it don't hesitate in contacting me.

Michael Green
MGA/RoomTune
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

michael green wrote:

Big smiles from me bfgmartin!

I'll be honest, when reading the other responses I was asking myself "are these guys not hearing the OP"? When reading your latest post a big smile came over me. Martin, your totally on the right path. I would recommend giving Harold Cooper a call or email. Here's his website http://www.soundconsultant.com/ . Not only ask him about the Audio Note but also the Audolici A25-M. http://www.soundconsultant.com/audolici-usa . Harold has an excellent ear and knows both of these companies well.

Also don't worry about the right or wrong of the Audio Note. If you hook up with the right audio consultant they will know how to get you the sound you want.

Good luck and if there is anything I can help you with as far as voicing in the system once you get it don't hesitate in contacting me.

Michael Green
MGA/RoomTune
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

Have you actually heard the Jadis?

@OP: if you like them, go for it. You're doing the best thing one can do, when purchasing hi-fi gear: letting your ears decide.

Hi rainsoothe

Jadis for me can be a mixed bag. I started getting into them after I did a couple show setups and then later when Johnathan Scull did his 1995 review "A Matter of Taste" featuring Jadis, Avalon and several of my goodies. You can look it up in the archives if you wish or I can send you a link. At that time a lot of us were doing Jadis, Forsell, CAT and a few others excellent products. In some ways, this time frame was the best of high end audio as many of the designers were at the top of their listening game. From that time on I have entertain Jadis with sometimes great results and other times if-y. I don't think this is as much Jadis' fault as it was the conditions in which the setup was done and maybe where it was done.

The Orchestra is a fine amplifier I'm sure, but when I explored it (I'm talking about the MKll) there was something going on that wasn't quite breaking through the clouds. It was nice don't get me wrong but for my listening taste not long term listening nice. When I was expecting the dynamic range to burst through and make itself known something was stopping this from happening. I feel kind of bad stating it this way cause it's very musical, but as I would listen more than 10 minutes that wall or cloud kept bugging me. If I get a chance to play with this amp again I'll remove some of the chassis parts cause I believe this was causing the effect I was bugged by.

If you read much about me rainsoothe you will find that I'm not all that pleased with the sound (or lack of) that many of our high end audio component chassis make, interfering with the actual sound of the units. I don't blame this on the "sound" design itself but more the way a lot of the components are packaged. As a result, you may setup a component in one environment and it sound beautiful and the next sound horrible.

Jadis is a wonderful product but some of the time put in the wrong conditions isn't able to get "out of the box". This particular problem is not nearly as much with either the Audio Note or Audolici.

Note: I listen to none of these stock and usually don't recommend stock for others.

Michael Green
MGA/RoomTune
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

bfgmartin wrote:

Hi there,

I'm returning to the world of hifi and looking to get a quality stereo amp and book shelf/standmount speakers. Will be adding a turntable, phono stage, and streamer if the latter two aren't built in.

I listen to a lot of acoustic music (as well as a spread of classical, jazz, and alt pop/rock) so favour a warmer sound with a rich mid range, outstanding vocals, detailed but not overly analytical, and especially dislike overly bright/sharp sound as I find it just get tiring. One challenge is the speakers need to be close to the rear wall so rear-ported is probably a bad idea.

Any suggestions for a good system here? Budget is around £3k-£4k for the amp & speakers.

ATC SCM11s or 19s are lovely but so neutral I'd want a powerful valve amp to warm them up - any ideas?
Sonus Faber's Venere 2.0 are warmer and more efficient? Any suggestions on amps?

I'm trying to get as many demos in as possible but hard to find some of the more esoteric brands so just trying to narrow down the field so I know what to go listen to!

thanks,

Martin

Auditioned so far:
KEF LS50 and R300 (lovely but not magical, rear-ported probably won't work in my room)
B&W CM6S2 (amazing but metallic treble got tiring even during a demo)
ATC SCM11 (amazing detail and oomph but too neutral with Arcam & (entry level) Naim amps at least)

Hey Martin,
Have a listen to a Rega Elicit-R integrated amp if you like a warm sound with some Rega loudspeakers. The Rega Elicit-R is within your budget I think. But this is a straight analog integrated, no DAC.
Rega stuff usually have warm sound with laid back presentation and musical too. Rega also makes awesome cd players and standalone DAC for the price.

michael green wrote:

Hi rainsoothe

Jadis for me can be a mixed bag. I started getting into them after I did a couple show setups and then later when Johnathan Scull did his 1995 review "A Matter of Taste" featuring Jadis, Avalon and several of my goodies. You can look it up in the archives if you wish or I can send you a link. At that time a lot of us were doing Jadis, Forsell, CAT and a few others excellent products. In some ways, this time frame was the best of high end audio as many of the designers were at the top of their listening game. From that time on I have entertain Jadis with sometimes great results and other times if-y. I don't think this is as much Jadis' fault as it was the conditions in which the setup was done and maybe where it was done.

The Orchestra is a fine amplifier I'm sure, but when I explored it (I'm talking about the MKll) there was something going on that wasn't quite breaking through the clouds. It was nice don't get me wrong but for my listening taste not long term listening nice. When I was expecting the dynamic range to burst through and make itself known something was stopping this from happening. I feel kind of bad stating it this way cause it's very musical, but as I would listen more than 10 minutes that wall or cloud kept bugging me. If I get a chance to play with this amp again I'll remove some of the chassis parts cause I believe this was causing the effect I was bugged by.

If you read much about me rainsoothe you will find that I'm not all that pleased with the sound (or lack of) that many of our high end audio component chassis make, interfering with the actual sound of the units. I don't blame this on the "sound" design itself but more the way a lot of the components are packaged. As a result, you may setup a component in one environment and it sound beautiful and the next sound horrible.

Jadis is a wonderful product but some of the time put in the wrong conditions isn't able to get "out of the box". This particular problem is not nearly as much with either the Audio Note or Audolici.

Note: I listen to none of these stock and usually don't recommend stock for others.

Michael Green
MGA/RoomTune
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

Thanks for the detailed and informative reply at my somewhat snarky comment. Nice read. I auditioned the Jadis with Focal Electra standmounts, tube covers removed. I forget what CD player was used, but I think it was a Naim or Simaudio. The combo didn't sound dinamically challenged to me, but, admitedley, I only auditioned a handful of amplifiers, in demo room conditions to boot, so I might not be an authority on the matter.

Hi Rainsoothe

One of the great things about these audio forums, when moderated well, is the diversity of the members and the experiences shared. My opinions might be way off the bullseye for bfgmartin and yours or the others might be right on, but the collective from everyone is what makes the hobby as informative as it is.

One thing I have notice as I visit audio forums including my own is there's two sides to this hobby. One is the kickoff team and the other the endzone team. I'm the guy that more times than not gets the client that has been doing the hobby for years running up and down the field and are just about ready to give it up or the guy getting back in and doesn't have the time or maybe even the desire to spend the rest of their money on guess work. The third guy I get is usually a fairly big event that must be done correctly or it's a bust. My advice may come off cocky or as a know it all, but in actuality my job in both the home audio and profession world is to know or to explore till I know. If I make a guess for someone I'd better say it's a guess or based on only limited experience, cause if I don't an entire music wing of a university may end up sounding horrible or recording failing and that's not a good look. Or even worse a live event failing.

I think everyone's opinion is of value. It's just when I give mine as a professional, popular or not, it's the difference between bliss or a redo. If it's a redo I don't get referrals and my reputation as a fine tuner takes a hit. A difference between a salesman or pitch, and a have to get it right or else type of thing.

Saying that, I learn a little something new every time I read an opinion or experience different from mine. And a big part of me being good, if I am good, is due to my level of actually doing and finding out how far others have gone.

The products all you guys brought up in the right situation has the potential to be the very best, and in the wrong the very worst. For myself, when someone comes in and ask for someone else to help them spend 10's of thousands I want to give them my very best shot. It's still only a suggestion but it's one based on a fairly high level of involvement or I don't say anything.

Snarky isn't a bad thing if it allows us to be the best we can be.

Michael Green Audio
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

Hi Martin

Congratulations, these are very fine products indeed! Say hi to the guys over at Audio Note via Harold Cooper of Sound Consultant and myself.

Michael Green
MGA/RoomTune
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

and let me give a shout out to my good friends at http://www.soundconsultant.com/ (US "great lakes" dealer for Audio Note)

One thing: It’s hard to understand what you mean by “warm.” The word is consistently overused to mean too many different things. I don’t trust it any more. But I will say this: I don’t think adding *one* subwoofer is worth doing for an audiophile, because you really need two. (There are arguments for more, but let’s be serious here!) If you’re listening in stereo, you need two subs because different subwoofer information is on the left and right side of the record groove (or whatever your source is) whenever you listen to a two-channel recording. If you combine the L + R signals to only one sub, they tend to cancel one another out or create an unrealistic mono-like signal. You need two!