JDTALV
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Best Set Up for $3,000-$4,000
bierfeldt
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My system is in a very similar price range and I balanced it a touch differently.

I went with a higher end turntable, a more modestly priced integrated and the same price range for speakers. My room is 10x15. I would take clarity and quality amplification over power.

I would look at :
Rega Brio R at $895 (particularly strong match with Rega turntables)
Arcam A19 at $999
Creek Evolution Evo 50 at $1195.

My POV is that these are the best units for the money as they will deliver quality that is as good or better than the $1500 units, but at a lower power rating. All three have very good MM phono stages in them and will deliver at or above any stand alone phono stages you would find for $200 to $300 as well.

I would then take that savings and invest in a nicer turntable. Consider a
Rega RP3 with an Elys2 cartridge for $1095.
Music Hall MMF2.2 with either an Ortofon 2M Blue or a Clearaudio Concept MM cartridge - $700 to $750.

I own a Rega P3-24 with an Elys2 which is the model that the RP3 replaced and I have an RP3 with and Exact2. I love them and find Rega particularly appealing for Blues and Jazz music.

Another poster -commsysman- recommended the other combo to me. I was really impressed with the Music Hall 2.2, so much so that I agreed stepping up to the 5.1 is not really much of a step forward. The Music Halls sound different from Rega. The sound is a bit more balanced in that I think the Music Hall has superior bass response but to me it lacks a little airiness in the mids and highs compared to the Rega. They are both awesome tables and I would get out and try and listen to both to see which you like better. It is strictly a matter of personal preference.

Finally on speakers, it sounds like you are not interested in adding a subwoofer which I understand completely in an apartment. I would warn you that the Kef LS50s are rated to 79hz at +/-3dB. They NEED a subwoofer and will sound flat without one.

The Dynaudio Excite x12 is rated to 50hz which is a much better performer. Given that they are discontinued, if you find someone who has them in stock for $1200, that is tremendous value and would be hard to pass up.

The Dynaudio Excite x14 is the current line and at $1500 is a strong value and a darn nice speaker and is rated to 50hz at +/- 3dB.

I would also seriously consider the:
Revel Performa3 M105s for $1500 - you can hear them at the Harman Store in midtown. 60hz +/-3db. I own these and love them. Ultra detailed with a tiny hair of warmth
.
B&W CM5 S2 - for $1500 or $1600. The most detailed speaker in this price range and very neutral 50hz +/-3dB

Wharfedale Jade3 - 45hz +/-3dB - Very detailed but I found to be decidedly warm. You will need to go to the Wharfedale site to find a NYC dealer, I listened to them in CT.

Monitor Audio GX 50 Golds for $1795 55hz +/-3dB. They have a ribbon tweeter and sound different than any other speaker in this price range. I listened to these side by side with the B&W CM5s at Park Audio which is at Park Avenue and 30th St.

For everything above, the low end - Rega Brio R, Music Hall MMF2.2 and Dynaudio Excite 12 would put you at $2800, the high end of Creek Evolution, Rega RP3 & Music Hall Golds would put you at $4200.

My current setup it Rega Brio R, Rega RP3 with an Exact2 cartridge - better bass than Elys2 but for $400 more - and the Revel Performa3 M105s. I do have a Sunfire Tru subwoofer attached as well, but I live in a house in CT instead of an apartment in Brooklyn.

commsysman
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JDTALV wrote:

Hey all,

First post, but I've read through a lot of the forum here and I'm floored with how knowledgable everyone is. Which is good... because I'm really struggling with my introduction into hi-fi and could use some help. Long story short, I inherited a sizable vinyl collection and I'd love to dive into it. Currently, I'm using a Mac/Bose set-up, but have been dreaming of something more for a while. I just got a new job and want to finally take the plunge.

I'm budgeting ~$3,000-$4,000 for a new rig. I'm thinking:

Turntable: Pro-ject Debut Carbon ($450)

Integrated Amp: either Cayin 50-T or PeachTree Nova 125SE but open to suggestions (both ~$1500). What about a PrimaLuna?

Speakers: KEF LS50 ($1500) or Dynaudio Excite X12 ($1200). Should I splurge for Magnepan 1.7 (which then need a Peachtree 220?)

For background, I live in a small Brooklyn apartment and listen to mostly blues-rock (Robert Johnson --> Cream --> Tesdeschi Trucks). Magnepan seems like a bit much and is pushing the price up with the 220, but I think I want to invest once and enjoy before I have a hankering for upgrades.

ANY help would be greatly appreciated. Even a good recommendation for an expert shop in New York to walk me through this. Thanks in advance.

I suggest the Creek Evolution EVO 50 amplifier, which Audio Advisor has for $1195. It has a good phono stage and a balanced input; an excellent amp.

Since you probably don't want a subwoofer, I suggest that you get floorstanding speakers. You just won't hardly get any bass otherwise. Plus there is the need to spend a couple of hundred bucks for good stands if you get small speakers. One does need a full midbass or the music is incomplete.

I recommend the Focal 826V speakers. They are really outstanding, and Music Direct has marked them down from $2799 to $1499, which is an incredible buy. I would assume they are going to be discontinued, but they are wonderful speakers no less. They also have very good sensitivity, so almost any amplifier has enough power for them. Focal makes great speakers! (check out the 2010 Stereophile review).

The Music Hall MMF-2.2 is a wonderful buy; a very good turntable at a very good price. The cartridge that comes with it is mediocre, but spend about $250 for a good cartridge and the performance is outstanding.

Magnepan speakers are great IF you have a very large room (?) AND an amplifier with at least 150 Watts per channel; and they have no bass. I question whether that would be a good choice for most people.

Catch22
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The Cayin is an exceptional amplifer and at least the equal to many costing a lot more. It has a huge stage and built to last. For the money, you can stop right there. It's that good. However, you will need to buy a phono pre if you go the Cayin route since it doesn't have one.

The $1500 point for speakers is the most competitive price these days and there are lots of good ones to choose from. Dynaudio is a good choice for a wide range of musical styles. If your tastes in music vary from one extreme to the other, Dynaudio makes a lot of sense.

Your room will likely enhance the lower frequency limitations from standmount speakers and provide satisfying bass with all but the lowest octave, which is the least critical for enjoyment of 90% of music. I doubt your could benefit from the ability to go lower than 36hz or so anyway given your apartment situation. Plus, the Cayin paired with good standmounts should image and stage like a sonofabitch. Often times, what you think would be less is actually more. $1500 standmounts compared to $1500 floor models should yield a much better perfoming standmount than floor speaker because you aren't having to pay for the larger cabinet and increased production and shipping costs. In other words, if you aren't actually auditioning each of them in your own home and able to make your own call, it would be a mistake to think the floor model is a better speaker simply because it's bigger and capable of 10hz lower frequency extension.

I would suggest that you lean toward a speaker that can reach just below 40hz with a little boundary love as that will encompass the lowest range of the Bass and that is important for a lot of music. Even being down 6db at 40hz is usable range and very noticably satisfying compared to having a low frequency cutoff that doesn't even approach 40hz. That being said, I would have to love a speaker a whole lot in all the other areas if it couldn't produce something around 48hz +- 3db as a specification criteria. A more useful spec that not all manufacturers use is the actual low frequency cutoff point which is assumed to be -10db.

I see nothing wrong at all with your original list of components that you are considering. Just add a phono stage within whatever budget you are working with and a pair of speaker stands and some modestly priced cables and interconnects. Your weakest link will be the turntable, cartridge and preamp. But, that's a sensible compromise until your music collection of LPs require you to upgrade your front end.

JDTALV
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Dear Bierfeldt, Commsysman, and Catch 22,

Thank you all very much for the long and well-reasoned advice. I spent the weekend at Stereo Exchange on Broadway and hope to head to HK and Park Audio this upcoming weekend. I just missed out on Stereo Exchange's ebay listing of a used Cayin 50-t for ~$800. Feels like that could have been a steal.

That said, the Creek seems like a good choice. Still considering the Peachtree though.

Thanks again and I'll update when I finally lay out some cash.

rrstesiak
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I recently researched for several months and ended up with the following, which is a bit of a twist but also contains components recommended by the other posters in this thread:

Creek Evolution 50A Integrated Amp, lucked out and found Rega P1 turntable on Craigslist locally for $200 (newer version is the RP1 by Rega), bought an Ortofon Red 2M cartridge, Cambridge Audio Phono Stage, Epos Epic 2 Speakers, Epos Speaker Stands, AudioQuest Rocket 33 speaker cabling. (I have a DAC and other digital equipment as well, but staying to analog for this thread).

Some important notes that were pleasantly unexpected in my journey to arrive at this system:

1. SYSTEM SYNERGY
this is very important and often over-looked. It basically just means matching the right components to all sound good and in sync and complement each other. In my case, I sort of "lucked out" and found the Epos Epic 2 speakers with stands to be optimal without spending $1500 on the Bowers & Wilkins CM5 S2 I was considering. Creek and Epos share the same roots, and complement each other very well. (just google everything for specs). I do concur; however, that Dynaudio speakers look very good on paper, but I haven't auditioned them and for $400 plus cost of stands, I lucked out with the epic 2's.

2. I believe Rega turntables to be the best...they offer a full range of tables from intro to serious audiophile. Mine is intro-level; you may want to move up to the RP3 or so..but again, I'm very pleased with my entire setup.

3. I auditioned several phono stages in the $500 and under range...and found Cambridge Audio to be a match for my system. Creek also sells their own internal phono stages, but I already had the Cambridge Audio.

4. don't overlook cabling. believe it or not, my speaker cables made a *Significant* difference.

5. I had a 10" subwoofer from another home theater system, but I actually did A/B comparisons and the little Epic 2 bookshelves must go to 40Hz -6db or something..because I truly do not need it any longer in my system. Again, it could also just be synergy with Creek/Epos.

My total costs: around $2,600...Assuming no craigslist and speaker "deals", closer to the $3,000-$3,500 range.

For your budget range, I submit the Magnepans are out of budget. They may even need a subwoofer in addition; depending on your preferences, they are physically very large, and need to be roughly 4' from rear wall due to dipole design...and, the final nail in that coffin, though I've heard they can be driven by smaller amps and integrateds, they really want a lot of power; like in the 300-400watt mono block range. (I did extensive research into Magnepans for my purchasing decisions and came up to those conclusions).

Hopefully you can walk away with a slightly different perspective and just another thumbs up for the Creek as a good recommend, and Rega for turntable. The rest is up to your individual preference. Who knows... you may decide after listening to a setup that it isn't at all your taste..that's the trouble..we all have different needs and taste..but I think the equipment mentioned here and from the other posters is in line and a good starting point for decision making.

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