You are here

Log in or register to post comments
JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

Now this is scary


Quote:

What does $6.5 trillion of additional debt imply for the typical family? If spread evenly over all those paying income taxes (which under Mr. Obama's plan would shrink to a little over 50% of the population), every income-tax paying family would get a tax bill for $163,000. (In 10 years, interest would bring the total to well over a quarter million dollars, if paid all at once. If paid annually over the succeeding 10 years, the tax hike every year would average almost $34,000.) That's in addition to his explicit tax hikes. While the future tax time-bomb is pushed beyond Mr. Obama's budget horizon, and future presidents and Congresses will decide how it will be paid, it is likely to be paid by future income tax hikes as these are general fund deficits.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123871911466984927.html

$163,000 per family....WOW!

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

Geez! That is scary! Now I really hate that SOB Bush and how he left this nation! Good thing we elected "O" and more Dems to the Congress to clean up after the F'ing Repubs! (Polls show about 70% of Americans blame W for the recession - I think that # might be higher around the world - while few other than the rabid right wing nut jobs blame O.)

You forgot to mention just how much that personal debt would have figured out to be if the Repub Lirpa budget had passed since their's ran into the trillions in deficit spending also.

You also forgot to mention O's budget includes items (like a quarter trillion for two wars started and perpetuated by the Repubs) that W. left out for his last seven years in office.

Just an oversight on your part I'm certain.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

Ah, another comment without having read the piece...if you had read it you would know that it only discusses debt directly attributable to Obama...BDS does not apply.

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

My points remain unanswered. Yes, this is only O's plan but this is a small snippet of reality. Just what I have come to expect from a partisan.

Look deeper to see the whole picture. There's quite a bit more to be found when you pull your head from that dark place, wipe away the accumulated crap that obscures them and open your eyes and your brain to reality.

commsysman
commsysman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 15 hours ago
Joined: Apr 4 2006 - 11:33am
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

What comes over the next 4 years is subject to economic variables so massive that NO ONE can possibly predict the result accurately.

The damage Bush did over the last 8 years is a matter of record, and unarguably the result of a moron in the White House and a Congress that went along with the deal.

Obama couldn't possibly do half as much damage, even if he tried.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

It's amazing to me how some drowning people will fight tooth and nail those who are trying to save them.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
My points remain unanswered. Yes, this is only O's plan but this is a small snippet of reality. Just what I have come to expect from a partisan.

Look deeper to see the whole picture. There's quite a bit more to be found when you pull your head from that dark place, wipe away the accumulated crap that obscures them and open your eyes and your brain to reality.

The whole story is that our leader is dumping over $160,000 in debt over 10 years on every families shoulders and the left, many of whom do not seem to pay taxes, could care less.

Let me put this another way...what, if instead of the government spending money again, they simply sent every person who submitted a tax return a check for say $10,000 a year for ten years and let those folk spend the money..OOOHHH!

After all, it all comes from the same place, government printing presses and debt.

I'd pay off my mortgage, buy a new car in 5 years, an perhaps visit relatives I cannot afford to see today.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Obama couldn't possibly do half as much damage, even if he tried.

He already has...9 trillion in new debt...doubling the national debt...

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
The whole story is that our leader is dumping over $160,000 in debt over 10 years on every families shoulders and the left, many of whom do not seem to pay taxes, could care less.

Let me put this another way...what, if instead of the government spending money again, they simply sent every person who submitted a tax return a check for say $10,000 a year for ten years and let those folk spend the money..OOOHHH!

After all, it all comes from the same place, government printing presses and debt.

LordyOLordy! You haven't been paying any attention at all, have you?

Look at my first post.

Pay attention to what I posted.

Even the Repub Lirpa budget plan would have added Trillions to the deficit and national debt - money we don't have and money that would have been borrowed and shrugged off on the next five or so generations, if we could find a lender!

At this point, after the disasters W left to the world, even with the Lirpa plan of freezing benefits to anyone other than their "have mores" base there is no way around more deficit spending and higher debt as far as the mind can figure.

That is a fact!

W spent us into a near depression (Grover Norquist is wearing a broad smile as he fills the tub) and the Repubs were the first to go along with their own agenda added to the bill. You do rememebr me mentioning the Medicare Plan "D" that was not only under budgeted but non-funded, right? Kind of like W's "No Child Left Behind" non-funding of programs except this one was pure political pandering with a multi-Trillion dollar pay off to the pharmaceuticals and insurance lobbies. "No Child" only paid off Bush's relatives and few other influential lobbies, nothing on the grand scale of Plan "D"!

Question; who passed that by holding the vote open for hours while DeLay arm twisted and threatened even his own fiscally conscious House members into voting or loosing their campaign financing support? (An illegal act, by the way.)

Answer; Repubs! (No real choice on that one, they were the only party in complete power at that time.)

So do not go on about how O has sent us into a death spiral. W drove us off the cliff with a brick on the gas and the brakes disconnected. Even the Repubs would be doing double gainers right now had Lirpa passed (that gives me a cold chill).

You should, as a proud American, be applauding the Dems right now for showing more fiscal transparency in the last 70 days than W and the Repubs could muster in eight years. But, no, you are too filled with mindless hatred of anything unlike your Party line to be so reasonable. It's going to take a long time for you to find your shame, isn't it? If, that is, you can find it at all by now.

Now comes the "OHMYGAWD! part. How much attention have you not paid to the basic news lately? Did you put your TV on Faux News and then toss away the remote or what?

Providing cash to the American public will not result in a stimulus in this situation. W has us running scared and the banks are pulling the levers of power. Only a small portion of last year's pay off to the public to keep their mouth's shut resulted in any actual spending that benefitted the US - a nation without a manufacturing base thanks to the Repubs and 30 years of Reagononimcs. Most spending went to foreign manufacturing powers, paid off "too big to fail" bank credit card debt for foreign made goods or it got stashed away for the more dire times W has left us in.

Giving money to the consumer is fruitless and will simply not result in the sort of credit unlocking required to make business work. Like it or not, the only thing left - other than the Repub's absurd idea of now doing nothing (this after giving Trillions away when W was in office) while the country burns - is to prop up the banks and financial institutions.

If you had read the article JA posted yesterday, you would have had a better understanding of the situation and you wouldn't post such inane ideas as you have here.

READ! LEARN SOMETHING NOT TOLD TO YOU BY RUSHBO! He is the Liar In Chief for special interests that do not include you "the average schmoe", Franken proved that every week for years.

GEEEEZ!

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Even the Repub Lirpa budget plan would have added Trillions to the deficit and national debt - money we don't have and money that would have been borrowed and shrugged off on the next five or so generations, if we could find a lender!

Do you really not see the obvious flaw in this argument..You are saying, in effect, the republicans want to spend $4 trillion in new debt then Obama's $12 trillion must be OK.

Have you ever considered that BOTH are bad ideas and the smaller of the two is less of a bad idea than the grander?

Obviously not.

If you do not understand this very simple concept, the rest of your argument fails as well.

It does not matter what bad ideas the republicans have when their plan has no chance and when the plan that IS being passed is far, far worse.

Like talking to children here.

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Do you really not see the obvious flaw in this argument..You are saying, in effect, the republicans want to spend $4 trillion in new debt then Obama's $12 trillion must be OK.

That's not at all what I'm saying, that's what you are reading and we can see your reading isn't all that good.

What I'm saying, what JA's article said and what every thinking person understands is that with the mess W left there is nothing productive to be done that will not add to the debt.

Even doing nothing is certain to make things worse!

You do understand that, don't you?

The Lirpa plan was a joke to be sure - I expected no less from the R's. To do even less than that would be sheer idiocy and would certainly set off a world wide depression unlike any other.


Quote:
If you do not understand this very simple concept, the rest of your argument fails as well.

OK, we've taken care of that bit of lunacy too. You don't understand even the simplest of concepts. If you don't want to spend the money and you don't want to do anything, there are no other options.


Quote:
It does not matter what bad ideas the republicans have when their plan has no chance and when the plan that IS being passed is far, far worse.

KNEE SLAPPER! SPIT TAKER! LAUGHED SO HARD I HURT MY SIDES TILL I THOUGHT THEY'D BUST!

JUST PLAIN ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!!

If you can't make any more sense than that, it's time to pack this in and move your show to another forum where they appreciate this sort of stuff. Try Hannitty's blog - he hasn't made sense in I don't know how long - if ever!

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
That's not at all what I'm saying, that's what you are reading and we can see your reading isn't all that good.

What I'm saying, what JA's article said and what every thinking person understands is that with the mess W left there is nothing productive to be done that will not add to the debt.

You say he left a mess, which is subjective and partisan, though you state it as a fact. OK, in your world we'll leave it as a 'fact'. How does taking $500 billion in unplanned deficit spending under Bush and making it $9-12 trillion under Obama make it better?


Quote:
Even doing nothing is certain to make things worse!

Prove it


Quote:
The Lirpa plan was a joke to be sure - I expected no less from the R's. To do even less than that would be sheer idiocy and would certainly set off a world wide depression unlike any other.

This is a non issue which you keep revisiting...It is like, having painted ones home blue, one constantly speaks of ones sons plan to paint it green...

The republican plan was never going to be approved, or even considered so why discuss it at all when we do have a real mess in Congress that has nothing to do with the republican plan at all and will be passed?

Why discuss the imaginary when the real has so much room for discussion???


Quote:
OK, we've taken care of that bit of lunacy too. You don't understand even the simplest of concepts. If you don't want to spend the money and you don't want to do anything, there are no other options.

A stupid argument and a logic flaw. A false either/or argument in which we either do the stupid thing advocated by your side or we do nothing. Putting aside your utter inability to prove doing nothing would be worse than this action, you leave off the universe of other options ranging from letting the business fail and reduce spending in hard times to spending less than the dems desire as the republicans wanted.


Quote:
KNEE SLAPPER! SPIT TAKER! LAUGHED SO HARD I HURT MY SIDES TILL I THOUGHT THEY'D BUST!

There is a medical term for that condition "Cachinnation"...Laughter without apparent cause, often observed in schizophrenia. There is treatment.

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
You say he left a mess, which is subjective and partisan, though you state it as a fact. OK, in your world we'll leave it as a 'fact'. How does taking $500 billion in unplanned deficit spending under Bush and making it $9-12 trillion under Obama make it better?

Eventually you have to question someone's grasp on reality when they make statements such as that.

"$500 billion in unplanned deficit spending under Bush" is what? There was no "unplanned spending" under Bush other than, if you're being very, very generous about it, the several trillion dollar cost of the wars he couldn't finish. He admitted he was going to run deficits for his entire two terms in office (and beyond actually is what he said) and, for once, he told us the truth.

Any "unplanned spending" ended the day after he told us "Mission Accomplished". Everything has been planned since that day. Or do you still refer to Plan "D" which the R's didn't think to fund? I can think of nothing that was "unplanned spending" under W.

Not well thought out, I'll grant you.

"Unplanned"? ... "unplanned"???

As Pappy HW used to say, "Nope! Not gonna go there."


Quote:
Prove it

OK! You do nothing for the next eight years.

Please.


Quote:
Why discuss the imaginary when the real has so much room for discussion???

Can I quote you on that? Discussing the hypothetical seems to be one of your favorite topics.


Quote:
A stupid argument and a logic flaw. A false either/or argument in which we either do the stupid thing advocated by your side or we do nothing. Putting aside your utter inability to prove doing nothing would be worse than this action, you leave off the universe of other options ranging from letting the business fail and reduce spending in hard times to spending less than the dems desire as the republicans wanted.

I see, it's stupid because you say so. This is like when you wanted a legal case presented isn't it? If I say it, you call it stupid.

Oh, you've been watching O'Reilly too much.

No, it's not a false argument and it is not flawed logic. Not unless you really don't care what happens to this country and the world. Then you have the attitude everything is stupid except that which you have ... a ... ppro v e d ...

Oh, dear, I've done it again, havent I? I've wandered into territory that's embarrassing to you. If it doesn't fit in your little skull with the other junk Rushbo has told you, it's stupid, eh?

OK, we'll leave it at that. It's cruel to poke at the defenseless.

Look, why don't you read JA's article? Then we can talk sensibly.


Quote:
There is a medical term for that condition "Cachinnation"...Laughter without apparent cause, often observed in schizophrenia. There is treatment.

You're leaving?!

Need help packing?

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

I'm sorry. I thought you knew something about budgeting...I guess like law, you are clueless.


Quote:
"$500 billion in unplanned deficit spending under Bush" is what? There was no "unplanned spending" under Bush other than, if you're being very, very generous about it, the several trillion dollar cost of the wars he couldn't finish. He admitted he was going to run deficits for his entire two terms in office (and beyond actually is what he said) and, for once, he told us the truth.

Bush submitted a budget for last year with around $420 billion in deficit spending. He added $125 billion in a rebate probram and $400 billion in Tarp I....unplanned deficits.

Obama has proposed $1.2 trillion in deficit spending in his budget BUT he has also proposed between 2 and 3 trillion in additional spending NOT in his budget. As the CBO has costed his planned deficit spending at around $9 trillion and he has added 2-3 trillion more his deficit spending is as I posted...

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Bush submitted a budget for last year with around $420 billion in deficit spending. He added $125 billion in a rebate probram and $400 billion in Tarp I....unplanned deficits.

Obama has proposed $1.2 trillion in deficit spending in his budget BUT he has also proposed between 2 and 3 trillion in additional spending NOT in his budget. As the CBO has costed his planned deficit spending at around $9 trillion and he has added 2-3 trillion more his deficit spending is as I posted...

OK, this is tough, isn't it? Well, a dumby like me can't be expected to get this right the first time out, you know?

So, let's see if I have this right ...

The only spending that didn't count (?) under W was the "$125 billion in a rebate probram [sic] and $400 billion in Tarp I."

Even though W's administration asked for and got authorization for spending $700B in TARP I?!

AWWWW ...... Damn! See? That's the kind of shit that throws me every time. W planned it but O spent it even though W really, really wanted to spend it hisownself but those rotten ol' D's said, "No way, Jose!" and wouldn't trust anyone who had spent all that planned? money on other shit with nothing to show for it with everything he wanted this time, so it's O's spending and not W's! Cause O did that like, what? three days five days? into his administration? So it's obviously O's. No doubt! It's O's alright!

Gotcha!

DAMN! That's not so easy to figure!

OK, OK, so W spent $400B on TARPI. And that's because you think W didn't plan to pay off his "have more's" cronies as he was headed out of Dodge, is that right?

OK, I'll play along but, guy, that's just dumb! I mean he didn't even ask for a receipt!

But, what about the "emergency" funding of two wars? Doesn't "emergency" kinda mean it's not planned? Or do you have planned "emergencies" at your house?

Ok, Ok, you're getting me off track here and this is getting complicated as all hell.

OK, $500B in unplanned spending because when W told us in 2001 he woud run deficits as high as $500B each year - not counting those "emergencies" he did or didn't? count on, man! this is tough! OK, those things he predicted don't count since they were planned unplanned spending. Is that right? Since W told us he was going to spend like a drunken soldier with someone else's credit card and PIN number, that doesn't count at all. Is that right or not? I tell ya, this is so damn confusing to a lunkhead like me.

OK, let's see if I'm following this. When W tells us he's gonna run up humongous deficits it's OK and it's "planned"? Not counting the "emergencies" that crept up every year for seven years, right? Those were planned emergencies?

Not like that Katrina shit that just surprised the hell out of W about a week later.

But when O tells us he's "proposed" spending money, that's "planned". Right? "Proposed" = "planned". I mean he hasn't spent it, has he? He's proposed spending it? So it's planned because he hasn't spent it yet?

But you know he's gonna?

I see! He's planned to spend it by proposing it!

I gotta tell ya, after seeing how this all works out on paper this makes my "proposed" "plans" to paint the house look like a friggin' run away train!

OK. back ...

Let's see, no, that would make O's proposal "planned" spending. Wouldn't it?

So when O plans to spend he's not doing the same as W who planned to spend?

Cause W is W and O is O!

Right?!

And because you're a right wing nut job!

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
So, let's see if I have this right ...

The only spending that didn't count under W was the "$125 billion in a rebate probram [sic] and $400 billion in Tarp I."

No, all spending counts but some is on budget and some is off budget. Let me give you an example...Most of the $125 billion a year used for the war was OFF Budget, but it was part of the known and anticipated deficit, like Obama's $1.2 trillion in his budget. Money Not in the budget either as funded or as a deficit is unplanned deficit spending. Bush did about $500 billion last year...Obama is doing $2-3 trillion this...FACT, not opinion, not partisan...simply numbers anyone can look up.

Anything I say about the wisdom of such spending is opinion, but the underlying numbers are rock solid.


Quote:
Even though W's administration asked for and got authorization for spending $700B in TARP I?!

He asked for $700 billion, the DEMOCRAT congress bumped the total to over $820 billion, adding vast amounts of pork but limited what Bush could actually spend to around $400 billion, requiring a new vote (on Obama's watch) for the rest...Tarp II

It really helps if you know what is going on and what has occurred before you say 'gotcha' when all you have is the brown end of the wipe.

Gotcha!

After that your post wanders into the realm of opinion and silliness having nothing at all to do with Obama's budget and the trillions he is sticking us with so I'll ignore it.

edever
edever's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: Mar 19 2009 - 3:05pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:

You say he left a mess, which is subjective and partisan...

Tell the guy whose family is now living in the street because they've lost their means of making a living that his situation is, "subjective and partisan."

Ya know, I bet he wouldn't even care about labels and categories and terminology...I bet the only thing he cares about is taking care of his family. And I'd even bet he doesn't care WHO makes it happen.

So why not get on board the winning team and let's all pull together to make the right thing happen. All of this finger pointing serves no purpose other than to blow time on an internet messageboard, because judging from the depth of understanding your screeding has betrayed and the literature you use to source what I gather is your malformed belief system indicates you don't know what the fuck you're talking about anymore than ANY OTHER swinging dick on the block. And yeah, that include me too.

By the way, first post!

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
After that your post wanders into the realm of opinion and silliness ...

I'm upset you think so. And I tried so hard to understand.

Really, I did.

But, no matter how much you sweet talk me, that's my final answer, you are a right wing nut job.

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
By the way, first post!

Ya really shoulda spent it on audio.

Look, say it was just a proposal, unplanned and all that jazz and then you get a Mulligan.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

Remember your words a year or so from now when the current 5.5 million unemployed is 6-8 million unemployed...on your fellows watch.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

Yet you remained clueless...

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Remember your words a year or so from now when the current 5.5 million unemployed is 6-8 million unemployed...on your fellows watch.

OK.

I'll know who to blame if that happens.

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

That is all I ask...

Jan Vigne
Jan Vigne's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt


Quote:
Yet you remained clueless...

There was no need for that! I tried to be nice to you - to make you chuckle at your own stupidity. There really was no need for that.

It was because I called you a "right wing nut job" wasn't it?

Yeah, well ...

JIMV
JIMV's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jan 31 2008 - 1:46pm
Re: Your 'Fair Share' of the Obama debt

I weigh my opponents by the strength of their arguments... and I measure my response in terms of preparation by the same measure. No need to build a serious argument then confronted by pure opinion...

  • X
    Enter your Stereophile.com username.
    Enter the password that accompanies your username.
    Loading