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sangeet
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Vienna acoustics help

I have a pair of vienna acoustics motzart grand, i drive them using arcam AVR300.
I just moved into a new apartment, i am trying to set them up.
its a 10x14 room and floor is hardwood they call it pumpkin pine wood floor, I am in Maine, so that could be a local name.
I noticed that when i speak it kind of booms in the room.

so i am trying to listen to my speakers, I have tried various positioning techniques, everything, i don't get any sort of pleasure listening to music at all, so i have completely stopped listening to music for now.

room treatment options are quite expensive, i am getting a rug to cover the floor and drapes for the windows, please someone help me if i can do relatively cheap room treatment.

any advice on vienna acoustics motzart grand positioning help is greatly appreciated

thanks in advance

bertdw
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

The rug and drapes will help a lot. If the rug covers the whole floor it will be even better. Furniture will help too, like a heavily padded couch or sofa. Wait until you try the rug and drapes before you worry about expensive room treatment.

dcstep
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

Did you buy from a US dealer?? If so, ask for the "Sumiko Master Set" that the best Sumiko dealers are trained to do.

Yes, some overstuffed chairs, a thick rug and other things designed to absorb energy will help a ton. See my review of the Sumiko Master Speaker Set elsewhere on this site.

Hopefully there's be a DIY DVD out before the year is over, but having a trained dealer do it will maximize the benefit.

Dave

Elk
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

As a quick trick, I found that waling around the room while talking and listening is a big help for initial placement. I walk around slowly talking, clapping hands, etc. until I find the place that echoes the least, booms the least, etc. I put my speakers and/or listening position there to start. This generally works quite well.

KBK
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

All of your problems sound as if they stem or come from the bass region. Too bad that even the science of acoustics itself ignores the bass region, as they have no way of dealing with it. Thus the specification of A and C weighting, which both ignore the bass region. In audio, the vast majority of our problems stem from an inability to fix bass region problems..as you are finding out.

My advice to you, is to not kill the higher frequencies, other than slightly 'tame' them..as this will only exacberate the problem, with respects to making the bass issues even more prominent, due to simple differences in level.

You best bet, without spending cashola, is to spend time finding the exact highest and lowest pressure nodes in the room.

What are the exact dimensions of the room (HxWxL)? describe doorway or aperture locations as well.

Both you and the speakers will need to be placed in the low pressure nodal areas (actually, the 'least excitable' areas). There will also be a natural bass lift frequency beginning at a notable Hz range in smaller rooms, strictly due to overall volume/dimensions.

The 'rule of thirds' is an excellent place to start.

This means, with the depth of the room, place you and your speakers 1/3rd into the room. Speakers can be placed so their ports or major bass emissive points are at the 1/6th point as well, instead of 1/3rd into the room...and also 1/3rd points across the room. This lowers the major peaks and valleys of 'additive/subtractive' room node noise to as low a level as realistically possible, as an initial attempt. if this has a notable effect, then you are on your way to making it a more acceptable space for listening.

Then there is a whole slew of other considerations, but this is a good start.

Ok. I saw the numbers. 10x14. The problem seems to be that there is a near compliment (2x) of the height vs the length. You will get a nasty peak/trough of frequency output in the areas that compliment those numbers. The rule of thirds should help a lot here.

I almost always put my speakers 1/6th of the way into the given room...and then wiggle my chair and the speaker positions to optimize. An an additional issue, is that the speakers you have are woofers on the front, and ports out the rear. Nothing wrong with such a design, no..but placement can be trickier in the smaller rooms that do have issues. Start playing with the positioning, that's the only way it's going to get done.

dcstep
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

My friend KBK and I disagree much in this matter. (We're both right ). Generally I believe that no arbitrary system of tape-measuring speakers into a room will ever optimize the setup. I believe there are just too many anomalies (openings, shelves, room irregularities, etc.) The proper placement needs to be determined by the relative acoustic energy of the speakers as they are moved in relationship to each other and the room's walls.

This will vary a lot by speaker and room, BUT I've found that 1/6th has never been optimal for my speakers in my rooms. Generally my speakers have been much closer to the wall than that. This generates bass nodes that must be dealth with highly precise placement, but it's doable.

As I posted earlier in this thread. The Sumiko Master Set is a method that'll get this right. The results are truly amazing.

Dave

ethanwiner
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Re: Vienna acoustics help


Quote:
Too bad that even the science of acoustics itself ignores the bass region, as they have no way of dealing with it.


Not sure where you came up with that, but I have built an entire company on the basis of providing acoustic treatment to deal with bass problems.


Quote:
Generally I believe that no arbitrary system of tape-measuring speakers into a room will ever optimize the setup.


I agree with this completely. At some point you need to add absorption into the room to tame the bass modes. Especially with a small room like this.

--Ethan

Colnmary
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

sanget my listening room is the same size with suspended hardwood floors,kauri.(a local hardwood)I have a large rug covering the floor between the speakers and my listening seat. I have my windows and french doors covered ceiling to floor with thermal drapes.(one outside wall is all windows and glass french doors)

This has deadened to room a lot, and a hand clap shows the room is quiet dead accustically. I think however, there is a slight problem with bass due to the natural room resonance, and I would recommend you put large paving squares under your speakers. (If you find it helps, spring for granite slabs which cost more and are more effective in a suspended floor on joinsts)

The rug and floor to ceiling 'thick' curtains will certainly help the room and lifting the speakers onto something solid will also help too.

dbowker
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

Try stuffing your bass port with some cheese cloth. This will let some air through, but slow it down a bit and help tame some of that boom. I was having similar problem with my Pro-Ac floorstanders and successfully got the boom down to a reasonable level.

sangeet
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

My salute to you all the gentlemen who tried to help or atleast thought about it .. I am truly grateful to have such a wonderful community backing me up ..

I will be posting updates on what I do and did not ...

room geometry: 10x14, hardwood floor, 2 doors, one in the center of the room near the right speaker, one exactly at the center of the room behind my home entertainment systm.
both are shut when i am listening, glass windows covered with medium thick drapes at the farthest side length wise from the speaker. I plan to buy thicker drapes.
Please see the rough drawing of my room,x=wall,D=door,
SS=speaker,C=couch,W=windows,E=Entertainment center
xxxxxxxxDDDDDxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--SS--------------CCCCC-W
DEEE--------------CCCCC--W
DEEE--------------CCCCC---W
DEEE--------------CCCCC--W
--SS--------------CCCCC-W
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I got a stuffy couch, and started using the iron pennies that came with the speaker for the speaker spikes to stand on. The sound improved quite a bit, i was happy.

I first used the free air setup suggested by the vienna acoustics manual( means 1 meter from the back of the wall and toe in till you feel the music ) and started to toe in an inch may be from the axes, I was quite happy, the sound just opened up and details were clear and diana krall started performing in my room. but I missed the most important thing the bass and low frequencies, I couldnt feel the need to dance when i hear some dance numbers, my hips wont move.

I tried the near-wall setup described in speaker manual verbatim. I pushed back the speakers to the wall and started inching them away from the wall as I auditioned.

They stopped at about 1ft 1 inch from the wall, with no toe in at all. thats the point when bass stopped booming or irritating my ears with reasonable amount of detail and clarity.

I let go a couple of days pass by and I was happy with what I achieved, anyone can call me stupid and I would agree

Then I was fiddling with my arcam avr300 receiver, and i stumbled upon the bass setup, my system bass was
set at -2db, I was mad, I got it up to 0db. my crossover frequency for subwoofer was set at 80, i brought it down to 40 or the minimum possible, as i want to play all the frequencies in my main speakers. even though i had setup as 2 speaker only and no subwoofer it stll uses this to manage the sound. I believe crossover in a speaker among drivers is a different story and need not be setup in a receiver.

wow, then i really started dancing to the music, the presentation is so nice and bass is so good.

I am not saying I am done. I have to do a lot of work on sound stage, I still have to work on the bass, etc.
atleast I am can listen to music and not be put off.

next is I am getting a good rug, I am getting Delcantos DAC for my computer uncompressed tracks to be played in my system.

I will be calling the vienna acoustics guys for the master set setup work and suggesting REL sub bass system.

I may not be very articulate, please bear with me and ask questions if you want to know about anything, atleast I am not scared of being stupid, and I will do the real justice by writing everything exactly as they are performed in my quest for sound

piinob
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Re: Vienna acoustics help

Yer givin me ideas, and that is a good thing!!

Sounds like you are getting there. I have a similar problem with a boomy room. The layout is such that treatment is difficult when you factor in the lady I live with, who owns the house. Persuasion takes time. Keep us up on progress please.

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