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JSBach
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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Or from Alexander Tyler

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

That is a very eloquent quote. Pure genius

"Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it." - Milton Friedman

Mark

Over the years, I have come to understand a critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom. In the former, the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is finding the moral clarity to see evil

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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GREAT

....and I thought those conservative tea party members were suppose to be "unenlightened" according to the modern leftist intelligencia who repeat that amongst other claims over and over again.

Mark

That is because they get to self label...and their media goes with the pretense. Does anyone anywhere really think Joe Biden is an intellectual giant or Obama a Constitutional Scholar?


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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963)

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

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Or from Alexander Tyler

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

That is a very eloquent quote. Pure genius

"Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it." - Milton Friedman

Mark

Over the years, I have come to understand a critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom. In the former, the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is finding the moral clarity to see evil

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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Given you apparent conclusion that Mr Tyler's analysis of democracy is 'enlightened', are we to assume the Tea Party is about to abolish democracy in the interest of balancing the books?
Shame Wall St hadn't the same fiscal ambition.

Has any democracy long endured when the books were not balanced?


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Proudon wrote: "To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-ridden, regulated, penned up, indoctrinated, preached at, checked, appraised, seized, censured, commanded, by beings who have neither title, nor knowledge, nor virtue. To be governed is to have every operation, every transaction, every movement noted, registered, counted, rated, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, refused, authorized, endorsed, admonished, prevented, reformed, redressed, corrected.

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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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"....expounded upon 10 fold by Obama..."

Are you using J_J's math?

j_j
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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Has any democracy long endured when the books were not balanced?

Not very well. The democrats balanced the budget, the republicans gave us wave after wave of the biggest deficits in history.

So, now, why are you voting republican. Can you actually explain this, or are you just repeating what your master told you to say?

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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"....expounded upon 10 fold by Obama..."

Are you using J_J's math?

lol!

Naw, just going from Bushs' 830 billion bailout to Obama's almost 3 trillion in less than two years.

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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The democrats balanced the budget, the republicans gave us wave after wave of the biggest deficits in history.

WRONG and skewed, or should I say... thats a lie ! The Republicans took controlled the House of Reps in 1994. Two years in Clinton's presidency, and put forth the legislation.

Clinton just happened to be the Democrat president in office at the time and worked with the Republicans on budgetary matters therefore balancing the budget.

Mark

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

"I don't care!". I teach political science at Berkeley. JJ is right about everything. I'm going to report you to the campus police.

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

j.j. Recent history is NOT your friend

Buddha
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

So, I think we're getting to the bottom of things....

Tebaggers say that it was the red Congress that was behind Clinton's budget acumen and lead to a balanced budget.

Then, a Republican President came along and with a combination of a red Senate, Congress, and White House would have further improved upon the balanced budget....but the Wagnerian scurrilous gay dwarf, Barney Frank overpowered those fine upstanding God loving abortion hating white straight men, Moody's, and Wall Street with his evil plan to ruin America. The red Congress, Senate, and President were powerless to stop him - and that's why, other than Obama, we suffered through the creation of the biggest deficits in history.

Even the teabaggers were held in check by barney's power.

Then, when it was no longer their majority or President doing the spending, the teabaggers awoke from Barney's spell and started having "taxed enough already" rallies even though income tax rates are the lowest since 1992.

The teabaggers never said a word until now. Reagan's 50% top marginal rate was OK with them, by the way, I guess.

____

So, we have Clinton benefiting from a red majority, with Barney Frank obviously not yet having come into office. Saved by the Republicans.

Bush II's mess with everything being a red majority - not their fault, it was Barney Frank.

OK, there, we have a full handle on teabag thinking!

Regarding deficit spending....

...did you know....Bush II brought upon us the first two wars ever funded without being included in the budget. All on credit, baby! Bush II was powerless to stop the rogue accountants, I guess, too.

These "supplemental funds" made for an apparently lower deficit when the budgets were released.

2010 (Obama) marked the first year any of the two wars' costs were included in the official budget. Fucking Obama the Marxist socialist.....

Hmmmm, teabaggers would certainly be able to understand that they'd been hoodwinked by Bush II to make the deficit appear smaller than it actually was, right?

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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"I don't care!". I teach political science at Berkeley. JJ is right about everything. I'm going to report you to the campus police.

lol!! I'm fleeing to Mexico. Catch me if you can.

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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j.j. Recent history is NOT your friend

j_j "revised" recent history

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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So, I think we're getting to the bottom of things....

Tebaggers say that it was the red Congress that was behind Clinton's budget acumen and lead to a balanced budget.

Well Clinton did make a LOT of very public statements advising how a balanced budget was not possible, then said it would take 12, then 7 and then when it happened in 3, took credit.


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it was the Clinton White House that fought Republicans every inch of the way in balancing the budget in 1995. When Republicans proposed their own balanced-budget plan, the White House waged a shameless Mediscare campaign to torpedo the plan -- a campaign that the Washington Post slammed as "pure demagoguery." It was Bill Clinton who, during the big budget fight in 1995, had to submit not one, not two, but five budgets until he begrudgingly matched the GOP's balanced-budget plan. In fact, during the height of the budget wars in the summer of 1995, the Clinton administration admitted that "balancing the budget is not one of our top priorities.

In 1994 the Clinton adminstration proposed a $203 bilion deficit...they got it. In 1995 they proposed $175B...it came in at $164. In 1996 they proposed $204B and congress allowed $107B. In 1997 the budget proposed $210B and got $22 and in 1998 $210B was in the Clinton proposal while the actual deficit came in at a POSITIVE $60Billion...

Not exactly a big effort by Clinton or the dems in Congress to balance anything...

But they DID take credit...

On 14 Nov 1995 Clinton vetoed the Republican Balanced budget saying "We don't need these cuts to balance the budget. And we do not need big cuts in education and ..."

On 7 Dec 1995 he vetoed the reconciliation bill "We must balance the budget, but we must do it in a way that honors the commitments that we all have and that keep our people together"

10 Jan 96 he vetoed the welfare overhaul bill

In March 1996 he advised he would n longer fight the balanced budget proposals from the republicans...

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/acce...mp;pqatl=google

etc, etc...

Clinton claimed credit for an effort he fought tooth and nail, after it was successful.

And Barney DID tell the world there was no reason to reform Fannie and Freddie (while getting a lot in campaign money from them) as all was well.

The deficit resulted in neither party stopping the spending, but it really took off in 2008-2010, some republican fault and most democrat...after all, they owned Congress by then.

Reagan did change things for the better

Bush and the entire Congress did fund two wars with funny money, but one Obama deficit is more than all the years of both wars.

Buddha
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

JIMV, so long as some guy puts on a flight suit and panders to you, there's no limit to what you will spew.

We got you figured out at this point.

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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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JIMV, so long as some guy puts on a flight suit and panders to you, there's no limit to what you will spew.

We got you figured out at this point.

I would hope so. I have been clear for a few years on this forum. The left is largely what is wrong with the country, they have no respect for our history and the Constitution, and the Country is going to reject them in a way that cannot be spun in one more day.

No amount of the normal dem fraud will suffice and no amount of the 'count all the votes' fraud will save them this time. The public is angry and the dems will see it.

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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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I would hope so. I have been clear for a few years on this forum. The left is largely what is wrong with the country, they have no respect for our history and the Constitution, and the Country is going to reject them in a way that cannot be spun in one more day.

You can keep telling this lie as much as you want, but according to your perveted ideas, the "left" is Barry Goldwater and Ike Eisenhower, the way they "hate the constitution" is by supporting and enforcing it, and what you want is a return to a religious state run by a king, in which your kind is "on top".

It's the only way you'll ever get "on top", I'm sure, given that you act like you're from one of the socialist, money-sucking red states.

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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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I would hope so. I have been clear for a few years on this forum. The left is largely what is wrong with the country, they have no respect for our history and the Constitution, and the Country is going to reject them in a way that cannot be spun in one more day.

You can keep telling this lie as much as you want, but according to your perveted ideas, the "left" is Barry Goldwater and Ike Eisenhower, the way they "hate the constitution" is by supporting and enforcing it, and what you want is a return to a religious state run by a king, in which your kind is "on top".

It's the only way you'll ever get "on top", I'm sure, given that you act like you're from one of the socialist, money-sucking red states.

You are confusing your strawman with my position again and hoping no one looks too closely.

It will not matter...in a day or so your fantasy will be moot.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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It will not matter...in a day or so your fantasy will be moot.

I don't know how they became so bitter. They were dancing in the streets two years ago. Now look at them. JJ is their poster child. He will report me to the campus police.

If I had the time I would search back and quote JJ directly from two years ago. But he would report me to the campus police.

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

The sad bit is the denial...They WILL be slaughtered in the biggest repudiation since 1938, or even 1932 and they pretend it is not their fault or their ideas being rejected.

Republicans seem to understand that it is not love for them that will win but absolute fear and loathing of what the dems sold us and crammed down our throats the last two years.

The republicans can blow it if they misunderstand but the dems can see even greater destruction in 2012 if they do not get it...they have 21 senate seats up in 2012 while the republicans only have 10.

mark evans
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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It's the only way you'll ever get "on top", I'm sure, given that you act like you're from one of the socialist, money-sucking red states.

jj, you have taken class division to a whole new level.. pitting states against states? c'mon man.

...jj, You would really enjoy writers such as Saul Alinsky and his "Rules For Radicals" book. Check it out, I'm certain you will love it.

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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression


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It's the only way you'll ever get "on top", I'm sure, given that you act like you're from one of the socialist, money-sucking red states.

jj, you have taken class division to a whole new level.. pitting states against states? c'mon man.

...jj, You would really enjoy writers such as Saul Alinsky and his "Rules For Radicals" book. Check it out, I'm certain you will love it.

Let me get this straight, you're castigating me dishonestly for using the same tactics the noveau-fascista posting as republicans have been using for the last 12 years?

Well, so much for your ethics, morals, and intellegence.

You see, the thing you're missing is that the blue states are by and large in pretty good shape compared to the red states.

Why? Frankly, because they are blue states, they care about things like mathematics and science, rather than "creation science" and "biblical inerrency", and the blue states, somewhat amusingly, aren't overrun by heavily socialist labor movements like the ones that put the steel and auto industries out of business.

It's socialism that made the red states the way they are, and it's socialism that the red states are actually trying to preserve, by and large.

Don't get me wrong, there are some decent red states, but the overall trend is clear, blue states are holding their own, red states are falling apart, because of their own homegrown socialism in things like labor unions and unwillingness to accept changes in work rules, coupled with silliness like "creation science" in place of science, and the idea that "math is hard" coupled with an avowed desire to make women chattel via religiously-based abortion regulations that already constitute a total insult to the USA's Constitution.

Frankly, if there was a blue state route through the heartland, I'd be happy to let the rest of them leave the union completely. They'd fail in a year or two. Unfortunately, given their willingness to advocate force and violence, as epitomized by the "tea party" and the advocation of "2nd amendment remedies", they'd just take the rest down with them when they went down.

But, until the red states stop worshiping churches, treating women as chattel slaves, and enforcing socialistic labor unions that drive out business, they are going to continue to live in a dark age.

JIMV
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Re: Typical "conservative" approach - suppression

I see you are from Washington...How are you going to handle the Rossie victory today?

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