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nrchy
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Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I will try to list as much as information as possible so you can recommend your favorite speaker to me!

My system consists of, from front to back:
ZYX UNIverse Xsb cartridge
TriPlanar VII arm
Sota Cosmos (latest)
Pass Labs XOno phonostage
Virtual Dynamics Revelation (I think, they're the ones above the Master) IC
Sony SCD 777es with superclock and blackgate caps, by Richard Kern @ audiomods
Purist Venustus IC
Klyne Audio Arts 7LX3.5b pre-amp upgraded about two years ago
These are on a stand from Starsound Technology - great stand
Purist Dominus IC 4 meter pair between pre-amp and amp.
Classe Omicron amp (sitting on stillpoints)
Purist Venustus speaker cables 1 meter
Talon Khite speakers (hey stop laughing!!!) sitting on custom stands.

My room is 14x25 with lowish ceiling of about 7'-9". The speakers are set in a corner at a 45 degree angle to the walls. The room is not rectangular, but has a number of indentations for stair, storage closet, and a sump pump.

If anyone is still reading this first, you must really be bored, second, I agree with JA's comments in his review of the B&W Silver Signatures. I would rather give up the bottom register than have it reproduced poorly.

I'm looking for a mid-sized speaker, but will entertain other ideas. What would you recommend and why?

I can provide more details if anyone could really want more. I'm a glutton for punishment, and good Thai food.

Buddha
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I love these questions. Nothing more fun than spending someone else's money.

Well, where to start!

I know they keep popping up here, but the DeVore speakers are the bomb.

I've heard their satellite speakers and they knocked me out with the upper frequencies, coherent midrange and imaging (in a DIFFICULT room, too) and over-all cohesiveness. Depending on your budget, you could pick anywhere in their line in the room you describe.

One other word that jumped into my head as I listened to them: Fast.

Start with those and then compare to them as your basis aas you shop. If you find something you like better, that would make whatever you bought an awesome speaker.

I'm also a big fan of shopping pre-owned, and there's lots to mention!

I use a pair of Infinity Intermezzo 2.6's in a 19X25 room, and they fill it nicely. Bass is not stigian, but they get to about 45Hz or so, I'd bet. They have an internal amp for the woofer, so they are an easy load for your amp to drive the tweeters. They also have that RABOS system, which I haven't played with yet (laziness, plus I mostly listen near field with them.)

I got them directly from Infinity on Ebay for 400 bucks. If Ebay had another pair show up, I'd buy them on principle, unless you want 'em.

Also, now that there are services available for new ribbons and repairs, Apogee Stage or Mini Grands are a total bargain.

A pair of Mini Grands usually goes for under two large (kilo-dollars) and offers a glimpse into the realm of speakers with no price limitations - from about 60 Hz up, that is...

A pair of Apogee Divas can be had for around 5K, as can Studio Grands. They can bit a bit on the tougher side as amplifier loads go, but I think they are magic. Your room is big enough, but you'd have to plan on them having some room behind them to breath.

Staying planar, Acoustat Model 2, 3, or the Spectra line are still killer diller.

The Chario Academy line is nice, too, if anything hits Ebay or Audiogon.

I'd like to get more familiar with the Aurum line and see what they've been able to do with the raven ribbon tweeters.

The meadowlark line that people have been mentioning on other threads is really nice, too. I''m not sure of their business status is active or not, but I've heard their entire line and liked them all, too.

Vandersteens, to me, are the modern equivalent of Dahlquist DQ-10's, and I like that line's style of sound. Not overpowering, but really easy to live with.

I'm easily seduced by petite little mini-monitors...

I've liked the Joseph monitor line, but they seem to be a love or hate 'em thing.

Watch for a pair of Sonus Faber Extremas, too. They run around 5-6K used, but they sound better to me than any of the current line-up!

Lastly, I think it was Eggleston who made the Andra. If I could nab one of those for a decent price, I could live with them - they do everything quite well.

OK, what we should really do is all sit around drinking Mejias' gin and make a list!

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Legacy WHISPER.....once you go WHISPERS, all elses sucks. Incredible, REAL, LIFELIKE. then there is the fit and finish!!! WOW!!! Driven by(4) mono VanAlstine/Hafler OmegaStar EX rebuilds (Hafler DH-500 (2) Hafler P500 (2) 4200W RMS or so of course/Ultra Hybrid EC preamp, feeding 2 Ultra Hybrid phase inverters, INCREDIBLE. Ya can't talk all ya want about wires and cables, and magic connectors, all nonsense....Get with real equipment and listen to reality design. Priced for mortals, built with quality. The sound is incredible. no magic metal work, no magic twists and bi furcated nonsense. Just great electrical design and workmanship.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

DUP I don't think you and I are going to have much in common. I have heard a number of Legacy speakers a number of different times, and in my estimation they are the Bose of the 21st century. If someone gave me a pair under the condition I could not resell them, I would decline. I listened to the Focus with good MacIntosh gear, and it was poor at best.

I have not paid any attention to Hafler since the Iris pre-amp. Maybe modded they are okay, but I thought they were mid-fi at best, and generally not that good. Once all that work is done, are they really still Haflers? If it was great design and workmanship that produced the amps, why do they need all those mods???

One Classe Omicron will out perform four Haflers. The top of the line Legacy doesn't sound as good as the cheapest Talon.

jackfish
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Right now you could get a pair of Meadowlark Blue Heron 2s for $6500 (1/2 price), loudspeakers that are much easier to listen to over extended periods than probably any other. And you certainly cannot beat them with anything else at that price. But you gotta listen to them.

RGibran
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

A very nice set of Apogee Stage just sold on Ebay for $840.00. There is currently a new listing for a mint set of Signature Caliper. Fine speakers if you have the room for them.

RG

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I don't disagree with you about stock Hafler's. Buy a used one for $200 put in $600 in new and better parts (everything but PCB's) and you have an amp that sounds like $4000. I do the work myself so the labor cost is minimal. They don't look as good as a Krell but that's not important to me. Substance over cosmetics is the way I feel. I feel as you do about the Legacy's but I feel that way about all box speakers. For me ESL's are the only way to go.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

VanAlstine updates to more linear MOSFETS, faster 800V/uS versus stock only 45V/uS...Original Haflers are a 70's design using 70's components, things have progressed...The baisic Haflers are rock solid large AC line transformer, heatsink design, layout accomadates updates to superb qulaity stuff, ain't had a VanAlstine problem in over 10 years, try it, you'll like it. You never heard a pair of Whispers driven with (4)4200W total RMS capable amps, if these don't sound like LIVE music to your ears......you need to have your hearing checked...Yeah, Whispers are Blose, you never heard any products from these guys, noone would even think that.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Have you ever seen WHISPERS? Don't have no box...I'm confused? If you rebuild a Hafler without changing teh drive boards, what did you accomplish? Original boards are obsolete, slow, etc. Mosfets are obsolete, slow etc. I have heard all versions, stock Hafler is nothing compared to latest VanAlstine rebuilds. I have used many versions still do, Stock Omega III, OmegaStar, OmegaStar EX, differetn Van Alstine pre amps, each new ckt is that much better. Maybe your ESL ain't revealing enough. Legacy 4 ohms like lotsa CURERNT reserve what 4200W of VanAlstine electronics offers...Focus was reviewed in Stereophile, got a good write up, Whisper is coming soon, bout' time

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

what do you change if you don't have a modern PCD/components which is faster, quieter more linear? New MOSFETS are in need of different divers. The stock AC transfomer and case work is superb, teh Relay is removed not needed, 1200W RMS running each Pro 500, it's a larger AC line transformer to deliver more power 1200W mono and 1600 RMS for some time, it's terrific...Fast 800V/uS slew rate versus old 45V...more linear response out to 0-500K. Beats all teh stock performance, if you don't chagne the pcd board you ain't doing anyting at all.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I would direct you to The Audio Amateur (no longer published). The magazine published a series of articles titled POOGE (progressive optimization of generic amplifiers). I have used those articles as guidlines for my mods. I have done other things also. I have a BS-EE and my own test gear and instruments. I repair and modify instrument amplifiers for fun. I do this for my musician friends as a favor. Several of my audio buddies have asked me to do mods on their Adcom and Hafler amps. By the way I replace the stock Hafler transformer with a torroidal. With my Hafler's the only stock items that are left are the case power switch and heatsinks. The original heatsinks already have holes drilled in them for more output transistors. I also have and use a pair of Dyna MKIII's. The only stock items are the output transformers and choice of output tubes. The mods I have done have been of a progressive nature over a period of years. I'm still not impressed with Legacy speakers. There are very few boxes that impress me. I am aware of Frank Van Alstine and his work. He makes fine amplifiers and his mods for Hafler's are very good.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Dup, wow you have a 70's amp upgraded to 80's parts! In ten years your gear will be up to 90's standards.

As I said as clearly as humanly possible I have heard Legacy speakers a number of times. I have been to several audio shows, and the "HiFi" shop in town that is really just a joke, carries Legacy speakers. I have, as I already said listened to the Focus speakers, and I would not take them for free if I could not turn around and sell them immediately. I would not own them, under any circumstances since what I have (the bottom of the line Talons) sound better than the top-of-the-line Legacy speakers. They are the Bose of the 21st century.

I would not consider trading my Classe Omicron 64,000W total rms amp for the thirty year old Haflers. If you had some better cables maybe you would hear the difference... just a suggestion.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Of all the mods I have done to SS amps a fully regulated power supply makes the most difference. As far as I know only Krell, Rowland, ML and Boulder use fully regulated power supplies in power amps. There may be others that I am unaware of.
Full regulation with no current limiting seems to make an amp much quieter and gives the impression of limitless power. It costs me around $60 per channel to build a regulator of this type. That cost is just for parts. Maybe I should stop calling them Hafler's but that is what it says on the sheet metal.
Although every mod I have performed has made an incremental difference. Full regulation has made them into something else altogether. After hearing them fully regulated I have no desire to replace them. Here In Phila. I have plenty of audio buddies with Krells, Levinsons and other ultra expensive gear. After hearing their rigs, as far as I'm concerned the ultra gear only has better case work not better sound. They don't disagree with me.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Are you the person who modded duds haflers? I'm curious about the fully regulated power supplies, but just putting a better power supply into a hafler amp is not going to change all the rest of the issues that kept it in it's price range.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me


Quote:
Are you the person who modded duds haflers? I'm curious about the fully regulated power supplies, but just putting a better power supply into a hafler amp is not going to change all the rest of the issues that kept it in it's price range.


No, I am not responsible for DUP's 4000+ watts.
The key to a fully regulated supply is to stiffly regulate the voltage without any current limiting.
Hafler and Adcom amps lend themselves very well to modifications. They both have clean open layouts and lots of interior space.
My Haflers have been modified to the point where the only original items are the case, heatsinks and power switch.
I designed my own direct coupled input driver stage basing the circuit on Dean Jensen's discrete op-amp design.
My Haflers have two transformers and 4 separate regulation stages. One torroidal with dual outputs and a +V and a -V regulated supply for the input driver assembly (both channels). The other (larger) torroidal with dual outputs and a +V and -V regulated supply for the output stage (both channels).
I do not use PCB's. I have teflon boards that I drilled and hard wired the components to. The output transistors have been changed taking full advantage of the extra holes Hafler drilled in the heatsinks.
These modifications have been an ongoing project for the last ten years. I have used Vishay resistors a variety of high quality caps and WBT connectors. I also used good interconnect wire for all the internal wiring.
I realize they are not really Hafler's any more but that is what it says on the case. They sure don't sound like Hafler's anymore though.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

JoeE it sounds like you know your stuff. It'd be a kick to hear your "Hafler's" sometime. Is Stereophile going to do a review???

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Thank you for the compliment. I have been modifying my gear since I bought a Fisher KX90 kit tube integrated in 1967. I was a medical equipment repairman in the USAF. Going to school in Denver for a year to learn electronics and medical applications for them gave me a lot of practical knowlege. After my 3Yrs 11Mo 2Days of servitude I was discharged. I took advantage of the old style GI bill and got myself a BS-EE with a speciality of biomedical electronics. I worked in that field for 8 years.
When personal computers came out I owned a C64, Atari 800 and finally an original IBM PC. This caused me to return to school and get a MS-IS. I work now as a network engineer.
I started modifying gear when I broke an RCA jack on the Fisher. One thing led to another. It doesn't hurt that my initial exposure to electronics was tube oriented. You tend to think of simpler circuits that are not op-amp based because of the tube background. I learned a lot from The Audio Amatuer. It was published quarterly and had lots of interesting projects and articles. The first testing of capacitors for audio purposes was in The Audio Amatuer. Walt Jung was one of the authors of that article.
The impetus that caused me to become more interested in mods was the purchase of Magneplaner MG1's in 1976. They showed how bad a lot of gear was. I have owned nothing but planar speakers of one type or another since then. I currently have ESL's. If you are curious about my gear check JoeE SP9 under member systems at Audioholics or any of my(JoeE SP9)posts at Audioreview.
Is this a great hobby or what!

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me


Quote:
JoeE it sounds like you know your stuff. It'd be a kick to hear your "Hafler's" sometime. Is Stereophile going to do a review???

JoeE does not lend equipment out for review by commercial publications!

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

My VanAlstine rebuilt Hafler P500 and DH500 are full of new FASST Mosfets Exicons 800V/uS slew rate for VanAlstines OmegaStar EX ckts, new boards, new Mosfets, All teh Hafler boards are gone as is the relay, the mains transformer is fine, VanAlstine have fully regulated individual power supplys for all the ckts, I run 4 units 2 P500 and 2 DH500 in MONO through Vanalstine Ultra Hybrid phse inverters, teh P500 have a larger mains transformer giving no voltage drops on high power thus 1200W RMS over DH500 only around 900W in mono, for same MOSFETS (12) XL-600 has 16 MOSFETS can go lower impedances, and has 2 bridges, more capaitors...My XL-600 will become an OmegaStar EX soon, I really like the P500 stronger chassis, larger transformer over DH500 more control over speakers, If It ain't a VanAlstine rebuild, it's just no good. new boards new inputs etc...great stuff. Hafler original transfomers are bullet proof, no need to change same with heatsink designs it works, same fans, kicking in to HIGH speed, when cranking it, they put out some current to my Whispers I may change to 2 more P500 VanAlstines when i get teh next 2 rebuilt, I have about 12 Hafler amps in rotation, several Hafler music pre amps (tube hybrids, and several Hafler G150/G300 music amps...Hafler made Great stuff, too bad they stopped production. VanAlstine makes the ones he rebuilds into sonic bliss, fast, high powered, super reliable. The old original Hitachi Mosfets are OBSOLETE, Exicons are faster more linear, better sounding.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I have read Audio Amature, it's called Amatuer for a reason, they are useless nonsense. horrible finish to stuff, looks and is nonsense. I started with this stuff with a Dyna ST120 and PAT4...through Dyna St400, PAT5, many many Haflers, Tascam, Magnum DynaLab, Philips, RANE, Audio Control,VPI,Benchmark, Legacy, Philips, and a bunch more I don't even recall...VanAlstine stuff is the finast stuff for mortals, his rebuilds are not just mods, they are NEW equipment, re uses what is still up to par, and good transformers last, and are big cost, Hafler transformers are supersize and deliver what's needed. There was never anything in Audio Amatuer worth doing, I had to drop subscribing, all crap, and game playing. The finished projects they showed look horrible, I'd be embarrased showing the stuff to anyone.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Your love affair with AVA products is so monomaniacal it's kind of silly. For your information the PAT4, and PAT5 were the worst pre-amps Dynaco ever produced. The Stereo80 and 120 are also right up there with the best of the worst.

I read the Audio Amatuer when it was published because there was nothing else out there. When did you read it? The magazine has not been published for at least ten years.

There was a time before the internet when knowlege about audio electronics was not easy to come by. That was the time of The Audio Amatuer.

Nowhere in anything I have written have I mentioned any of their projects except to say they published them. I did say I used some guidlines from articles published therein. The magazine got me started on the modification track.

My driver/input circuits are my own design borrowing heavily from Dean Jensen's discrete opamp design. My ouptput transistors are bi-polar.

What have you designed or modified? Do you get paid for pushing AVA gear?

I've got news for you, Van Alstine gear hardly belongs on the best dressed list.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

PAT 4 i repalced with a PAT 5 Bi-FET big improvment, When AVA rebuilds them he guts them obsolete ckts installs new boards, new phono stage FAST FAST D.C-500K Hz.01% With the abilty to drive any amp..I now use his latest Ultra Hybrid EC...incredilble.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Mosfets are the way to go on output stages of amps, talk about OBSOLETE ckts, dude, you are clueless. Exicon Mosfets, fast, linear, cheap. Bi-Poslar transistor, you might have zero hearing. What is the slew rate of your ckts? distortion figures? Freq response? Audio amature was useless. I don't see sound people at live events trying to modify their 40W amp on some magic ride into non sense land.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Please dud, for your own good and our sanity, sell the system and have the operation! I'll even kick in some funds if it will help. How much can a lobotomy cost?

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Already DID................lobotomy that is. Which allows me to converse on your level. Answer the question, what is the slew rate of your modifications? It MATTERS. As an EE you surely have this info, understand it, and should be in quest of better, better, better. So, most of the stuff mentioned is junk I use, I'll accept your EE opinion, but you managed to modify something which is the epitomy of sonic realism, please explain what this stuff is. My quest for sonic realism has been on going as I have explained I have continually upgraded over teh years. You have found the end, with your home made stuff, what exactly is it anyway, please tell. So I have a new reference to use. Since you are an EE, I'm just a flunky, BUT.......

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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me


Quote:
Answer the question, what is the slew rate of your modifications? It MATTERS...

Why? What direct connection does the slew rate of an amplifier have with sound quality? And what are your qualifications for dismissing the opinions of others?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

What connection is there to sound with MOST measurements? I want the products I own to sound good, if they measure good too, great!

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Typical nonsense. Certainly you do have these numbers thoguh, don't you? you are an EE, ain't ya? so when you do mods you just guess, or what, how do you come up with your mods? Why did you decide to go with teh transfomrer you did, replacing an already fine Hammond transformer in teh Haflers? What made you cahnge it? As an EE, what SPEC when you called for a certain transformer made you go with teh one you did? Or maybe you heard it first, and it sounded better? Hmmmm. I don't think you are an EE, I don't think you have a system that is anything past a BLOSE setup? What kind of amps we talking here, into what speakers?

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

FAST means the amp can respond to transients, the snap of a snare drumm, it makes everything more lifelike, if you have never heard electronics with tremendous slew rates, then of course you do not know what it it about. And properly designed ckts do not have to cost absurd amounts of money. If measurments don't matter why do YOU do them? Didn't you measure and amp sold as 1Kw and it only delivered half, violtating FTC rules. Of course any measurement paramter i throw out, is meaningless as for sound, how convienet. What specs matter then. Surely some have to mean something. So a 500W amp is gonna control and drive a speaker like a 50 Watt amp, since specs don't have a realivence? If this audio stuff is all subjective, why do teh design engineers of some great stuff use specs and ckt analysis with specs? What parameter spec makes one capacitor SOUND better than another, temp stabilty, ESR? What spec in a piece of wire makes one sound "better" than the other..or is it all just guessing. Surely these magic wire makers, with their "white papers" of formulas, specs etc, are using a SPEC for it design, in order to get a "good sounding cable" hmmmmmm

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

The same qualifications that others have for telling me, specs don't matter, it's just what I hear that matters. don't teh specs narrow donw the choices when looking for a certain performance level. I wouldn't be looking at no 3 W magic amp if I was trying to fill a space with lifelife REAL sound, no matter how efficient teh speakers are. Hmm, so ther is one spec that matters....then there is slew rates, just how fast can that ckt respond to transinet changes in teh signal, hmmmm you don't think it matters, why do electrical design guys spec it in components and op amps etc..hmmm, maybe it does mean something.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Ask Krell, Boulder, Bryston, Classe, Mark Levinson or several other manufacturers what they use for output transistors. You sound like someone who has read a book about driving and now wants to give others racing lessons.
Please give your technical reasons why MOSFET's are better. Better yet tell me what a MOSFET is and what makes them different.
Just what is slew rate? How does it effect a circuit? How much is too high? When is it too low? Would you provide some data. You claim you know so much. Convince us we are wrong.
Do you have a spell checker, or is that the same place your manners are?

I am publicly asking DUP be placed on my ignore list.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Not only is your spelling bad your reading skills are suspect. I am the one who said I had a BS-EE. I don't think nrchy ever said anything like that. We now know you can't read or spell. I suppose hearing problems are just another of your symptoms. Whatever it is you're smoking; where can I get some? I want to live where you do.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Hi JA!
I would seem to me that the slew rate of a given active device is not really relevant. By this I mean that only the slew rate of a given circuit is important. This would suggest that the circuit slew rate would be dependant on the slowest devices in the circuit. I believe that device would be the capacitor.

RGibran
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Gentlemen.

You cannot reason with an individual who makes statements such as:

"Legacy WHISPER.....once you go WHISPERS, all elses sucks"

Use your "Ignore" feature and let us all move on.

RG

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Would you want Hitachi MOSFETS or Exicon..Metal Oxide field Effect Transistor. Thermal abiltys, no runaway, then ya can eliminate some ckt protection. And speaking of Hafler, he was the FIRST to use them in an audio amp, so much for those 70's generation as being so bad. The devices of course have improved over time, by different mfgs. Krell uses B-Polar, and the meaning of that is...they don't make it as good as they should. Yet they sure do charge more than most. Well my original Haflers had a slew rate of only 45V/uS....that is obsolete for sure, that's been resolved during teh rebuilding, and ckt board replacment.... If you think transient responses don't matter, it's what makes an amp sound ALIVE, not contricted, lifeless. don't know how much is too much. But i do that paying too much for something of less ckt abiltys, is dumb. But it has nice metal work, it is audiophile grade.

CECE
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

If I said, once you go Porsche, all else sucks? No good either? I know I need to keep an open mind, and accept things that are new....like the latest "world's best. and the fad of the month tweak. Or the latest magic wire.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

I'm fairly new to this site. Can someone please tell me how I can ignore DUPs posts. I never heard of the feature before, and came along late in the discussion. Sorry.

Monty
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Hey Nrchy, if you click on a user's screen name at the left of one of the user's posts, you will be taken to a page that offers several options. Toward the bottom of the page, you will notice an option "ignore user" that will completely eleminate the user's posts from appearing in a thread.

I would much rather see Dup make an effort to observe common courtesy and become an asset to the discussions, but until (and unless) that happens, the ignore feature is the only way to continue enjoying the discussions with other members.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Thank you Monty! I too would rather see him be an asset rather than an... well you know. Until that happens there is no point in arguing, so it seems like the only valid option is the 'ignore' selection.

nrchy
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

So anyway, what about my speakers? I've been considering a used pair of Talon Peregrin X, or the larger Merlin floor stander. Any opinions, or experience?

Jeff Wong
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

A friend of mine has Merlins (not sure if they are they same ones you're considering.) The bass is very solid, perhaps a bit much for his small room. The thing I find most objectionable about them is the tipped up treble. There is detail, detail, detail, but, it seems unnatural to my ears. His Merlins employ a Caddock resistor (and I believe a cap) at the binding posts to help tame the treble, and even with this factory fix, the speaker seems bright. They may work better in a larger room and not in a nearfield setup, so, auditioning is probably a must.

Editor
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me


Quote:
FAST means the amp can respond to transients, the snap of a snare drumm, it makes everything more lifelike, if you have never heard electronics with tremendous slew rates, then of course you do not know what it it about...

With respect DUP (something you need to apply yourself to the comments of others), an increased slew rate of a circuit does not in itself confer these attributes on sound quality.

You're fond of demanding answers of others to your questions, DUP. Please explain _why_ a complete amplifier having a greater slew rate _directly_ correlates with the aspects of sound quality you mention? Particularly when the bandwidth of an amplifier is usually defined by a low-pass filter on the input. Particularly when, unless you are playing back vinyl or SACD, the amplifier is being asked to handle a bandwidth-limited signal in the first place.


Quote:
then there is slew rates, just how fast can that ckt respond to transinet changes in teh signal, hmmmm you don't think it matters, why do electrical design guys spec it in components and op amps etc..hmmm, maybe it does mean something.

I certainly agree it matters with individual components, particularly a) as an op-amp in many applications will be dealing with signals with a very wide bandwidth and b) a high slew rate corresponds to a high open-loop bandwidth, which does correlate with better sound quality when negative feedback is wrapped around the op-amp. But for a _complete_ circuit? I fail to see any direct correlation with sound quality. Again, please explain the correlation you claim exists.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

gkc
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Hi, DUP -- you frequently use the "puzzled" graemlin. I can only assume you are frequently puzzled. You should take advantage of JoeE's and JA's expertise -- each obviously has much more technical knowledge than you, and I am sure that both would be more than happy to enlighten you on the basics of amplifier design. I am smart enough to be intimately and honestly aware of my own stupidity when it comes to technical expertise and electrical circuits. However, I AM an expert listener, and a long-term one. I have heard just about everything - Mosfets, Hexfets, and Sexfets...fast slew rates, slow slew rates, and no slew rates, not to mention a slew of pee-yew rates, tubes, boobs, and labial farts. All of it. When you get to be my age, NOTHING has escaped unnoticed. When JA tells you it's the EXECUTION, not the abstract design choice, you ought to listen. I have heard the best and worst of ALL design choices, and a talented designer can probably extract beautiful music from a toaster. So, rather than be forever puzzled, just listen to your superiors. Then you won't have to be seen in public with those silly question marks above your head. Peace, love, and happy tunes. Clifton

Buddha
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Fellas, I think if Dup were honestly serious about this, he'd go and buy some PA speakers and amps, just like the SMOKIN' bands he likes - that way, they would sound EXACTLY right.

Why waste money on (possibly, fictionally?) AVA stacks and Whispers when he could have the real deal, with all the SLAM and LIFE of a Marshall or Peavey stack of gear?

Hey, if ya want it accurate, you can't get more accurate than the actual gear they played it on to begin with! Right?

Plus, listening to one kind of music and all, who needs a way to reproduce the sound of that shitty unamplified live jazz and classical music? That would be a waste...

JoeE SP9
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Hi Clifton, thank you for your kind words. I'm just a listener with more ears than money. I know enough to know I don't know enough. BTW a slow device is a bandwith limited one ie: coupling capacitors.

RGibran
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Re: Speaker advice for a... well, for me

Dang Buddha, I swear I've been thinking the same thing for weeks.

Why not some Crown amps and JBL or Altec PA stacks?

Stevie Ray and Buddy Guy don't use no stinkin' AVA or Whispers!

Could it be DUP actually hears a difference in that stuff!

Oh yea, I forgot, his system has gone "Beyond Live - Better Than Live".

RG

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