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CECE
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Small Advent review May Issue

Just finished reading the review of the long out of production , basically unavailabe, except as an old, probably inoperable due to the foam rot issue that hit all 30+ year old drivers from that era. At the time the mfgs thought foam surround was better than the good ole' RUBBER, that still works on 40 year old Marshall speaker cabinets.!!! In a different thread JA makes mention of the valuable page space in a monthly magazine. Why the heck is it wasted on an obsolete, not produced, un available speaker no one will want , need or purchase. And the company is long out of business as it was known then. Sometimes the hypocricy is incredible. How bout' a write up on an Eddison wax cylinder? One minute you guys are all for state of the art, over the top nonsense, then you waste "valuable" page space on non available basically junk. the term "vintage" is political speaker for old junk. I had my experiences with large advernt in the late 70's mid 80's, the double Advent system (4) w/2 AR2ax, 2 Dynaco A-25 topped with pr of MicroAcoustics tweeters. at the time this stuff was main stream, hi fi, I drove them with the Dyna ST-400, yup, in a series parallel hookup, they put out some incredible sound for the time....guess what, by todays standards in driver improvemnts, materials technology, they where LOUSY. Why go backwards re-reviewing obsolete junk. If as you say, this is valuable magazine page space. Hmmm, looks like filler to me. Actually about as useless as the modern $90,000 turntable. Hmmm, StereoPhile confuses me, making me thinks there ain't much practical value, but "for entertainment" only, it's teh whoopie cushion of print medium. Makes me laugh like an un controlled fart. Keep up the stink fest

Editor
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue


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In a different thread JA makes mention of the valuable page space in a monthly magazine. Why the heck is it wasted on an obsolete, not produced, un available speaker no one will want , need or purchase.

Because a) this series of reviews of classic components has proved to be very popular with readers, b) because this was a speaker designed by the late Henry Kloss with the help of Andy Kotsatos, who went on to found Boston Acoustics, and c) because I feel it very illuminating to subject a vintage piece of gear to a full, contemporary Stereophile review.

Please note that even if many readers do appreciate a review such as this, DUP, you are not compelled to read it :-)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

John,

You know many of us truly enjoy these trips down memory lane. As one who owned a Fisher 500, small Advents, Dynaco A-25 and the like, it is not a bad thing to know were we've been. Are we having fun, yet?

That is what this hobby is supposed to be about and these reviews are part of a magazine that provides "entertainment". At least for most of us.

I thought this current issue was great. I would as I am really, really old and terribly stupid. I can't wait to find out who 2nds the motion. I think I have a couple of good guesses already.

Maybe there is some interest in vintage gear and the designs as to why Klipsch is bringing back the Classic line of horn speakers. Maybe the original good or great design using updated drivers might be marketable? UMMMM. I guarantee you that if AR resurrected the AR 3A and the AR2AX with current dirvers many pairs would be sold.

Whoops, it's almost 8:30pm. Time to go to bed. Where is my Geritol?

ohfourohnine
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I've already expressed my appreciation for the coverage of vintage gear and of the Smaller Advent in particular, but I hasten to echo Jim's feelings . Having spent more than forty years pursuing this hobby I take pleasure in learning how others reacted when they walked some of the same paths I did. The Smaller Advent review included a reference to another piece of gear I owned and loved way back when, the Sherwood receiver. I recalled how secure I felt with the Sherwood and a Shure V15 both being manufactured within a few miles of my home. Never turned out to be very important - neither caused any problems, and both were appreciated by the "newbies" I gave them to when I thought I could afford to move up.

I suspect that vintage reviews are of relatively little interest to the thirty year olds in our contingent, but they take up relatively few of the content pages and, for all I know some of the young guys with Tivoli radios might enjoy knowing a little more about Henry Kloss and other notables of that period.

Thanks very much, JA etal., for this vintage series.

ChrisS
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I just picked up a KLH Model 8 table radio (another of Henry Kloss' famous designs) and a single KLH Model 24 speaker since the original speaker was no longer with the radio. I find that these pieces of obsolete junk sound so good that I won't trouble myself with one of those dreaded modern "hi fi mini systems" for my office....

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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I thought JA's discussion of his measurements of the Viennas were particularly useful in understanding what they suggest. The same could be said for the Dynaudios.

I really liked this issue because I am somewhat familiar with Dynaudio speakers and can relate to both Wes' listening observations and John's measurements.

I think it worth noting that the least expensive speaker reviewed this month (Dynaudio Focus) measured up to their specifications, while a couple of the more expensive models failed to meet their claimed specifications, in one instance, by a significant amount. I'm beginning to wonder if some manufacturers are stating sensitivity as a "typical room sensitivity" or if they were measured in a brick room to begin with.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Cheapskate is right on. I think back from 1945 to the 70's and how much was accomplished it is remarkable. It was a frontier to behold and we thank the folks who worked at the likes of AR, Advent, KLH, Citation, Fisher, and many others who are the stepping stones to a great hobby allowing us to hear great performances in our homes. I hope I always see the glass way more than half-full.

I can only dream of the enjoyment the Stereophile writers enjoy from their audio systems, but I am still having a great time. Appreciating what you have is very important in life. At least that is what I keep telling my wife. LOL

I know the future will be troublesome with format wars and software problems and the agonizing problems of trying to get the most out of are systems. I do know that I would bet Cheapskate is really enjoying his new SACD player. He still loves vinyl like me, but the future is pretty amazing. Digital can be very, very good.

Don, another gentleman I have meet here and shared emails with, is now really enjoying his first real time with tube audio and is having great fun. That is enjoyable to me.

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Tivoli, is the current incarnation. Kloss also did Cambridge Audio, why ain't that special? He did the KLH 9 Wasn't that the super electrostatic ones? was also with him. Let's see some reviews of "vintage" HAFLERS DH500 DH110 pre, P500, P505. Pro 5000, so many models, from Dave Hafler, one of audios finast brains.

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I'm not a newbie 30 something, and still don't care about obsolete, 30 year old stuff. Especially loudspeakers. They are so outdated by todays' improvements in materials used for modern drivers. My favorite HAFLER, is also obsolete ckts, that's why they get REBUILT into modern 21st century audio wonders, from AVA. New driver boards, new MOSFETS. Keep teh fan, heatsink, AC line transformer. Even the input jacks are replaced. The savings is in the reuse of the chassis, and other peripherals. Cus' the basic brilliant Hafler DH500 P500 designs can live on well past 30 years from their inception, brilliant designs. Relaible, simple, musical, sonic bliss once they are rebuilt by VanAlstine, will probably smoke any $10,000 amp you could compare it to. What about a $75,000 overpriced unit? I think StereoPhile should compare, if they want to do a service to their readers.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

DUP - If I thought I could bear to spend more than a few minutes with you, I'd ask for an invite to your place to hear this magical system of yours, since you appear to be just across the water...

ohfourohnine
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Just to let you know, DUP, I have no idea what you might have said in response to my post on the subject of the Smaller Advents nor do I care. Your arrogance wore out my patience a long time ago. Ignoring all your posts works fine for me. Why don't you start ignoring the stuff I post here?

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Re: Small Advent review May Issue


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DUP - If I thought I could bear to spend more than a few minutes with you, I'd ask for an invite to your place to hear this magical system of yours, since you appear to be just across the water...

I'd be up for a road trip, Jeff. I, too, would like to hear DUP's system and also to measure the Whispers in a room other than our reviewer's. DUP?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

New floor is going in today matter o' factly. But you guys tell me I listen too loud, and my music is no good. Stevie Ray Vaughan, Buddy Guy, Gary Moore, Albert King (Sessions w/SRV SACD is INCREDIBLE!!! Albert Collins, lotsa stuff from Alligator Records...it's basicly the roots of all rock and roll. Jeeez, even Led Zeppelin was a blues band, turned up and faster. 4200W of VanAlstine power might be too much for ya's to handle. 110dB or so. My friend musican avgs about 106dB with peaks up to 116dB. Guess that is what LIVE music is all about. Come in June, B. Dudleston is supposed to be in town at the local new distributor for Legacy Audio, meet the master himself!!!! The local distributor is setting it up now for around June. John A. give Bill D. a call and confirm it. They have gone back to direct sales with a few special distributors. Allen Organ sold it all back to Bill...or Bill bought it all back. So it's all back in Ill.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

John, I'm "up for DUP", if you are... but, his reply didn't exactly sound like an invite...

DUP? What do you say?

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I told JA in a private letter. Why not? Do I need to run a background, security check on ya?

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Re: Small Advent review May Issue


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New floor is going in today matter o' factly. But you guys tell me I listen too loud, and my music is no good.

I haven't said anything about your listening levels, DUP, and I certainly share some of your tastes in music. But I would like to take a listen to your AVA-driven Legacy Whispers. What do you say? I'll bring the beer.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Surely, I'll even let ya play some classical if ya want at what ever levels ya like. Let's do it.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue


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I told JA in a private letter. Why not? Do I need to run a background, security check on ya?

I'll leave it to John to work out the details. My schedule is relatively flexible.

smejias
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue


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Surely, I'll even let ya play some classical if ya want at what ever levels ya like. Let's do it.

FINALLY: This is getting interesting. Enough words; some action, some music! If you'd like a moderator in house, DUP, I'm there.

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Moderator, or referee!!! HA! ...Let's give it a whirl. Cool

Monty
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I sense one of those special moments in the history of Stereophile developing here.

I do hope you will demonstrate the inaudible differences in cable while you are at it.

If I try to become even more insufferable, can we have a keg party at my house next? Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

This is worth taking Dup off ignore.

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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Careful, guys. This "new floor" may be faux, covering a pit full of unfed 'gators and retractable at the flick of a Van Alstine power switch. DUP, you won't need a referee -- John, Steve, and Jeff are nothing if not fair. I am sure they will hear both positives and negatives (relative to the best that's out there) in your system. My scepticism lies in its ability to live up to the hyperbolic bullsquat you've been shoveling at us these past months, as a be-all, end-all rig, capable of putting to rout all the fine gear you have been ridiculing. We'll see. I'll believe this when I read the minutes of the session...but, 'till then, I'm keeping an open mind. Cheers, all -- Clifton

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

It's all real baby. Just got done cranking some Stevie Ray Vaughan/Albert King Sessions SACD.....Albert Lives/stevie Lives. And that was original recording back in the 80's!!!!!! analog Masters? One of the better discs, a favorite indeed..makes these (4)VanAlstine 4,200Watts, (2)Ultra Hybrid phase Inverters, (1)Ultra EC Hybrid pre amp move the house. Through non audiophile pieces of wire of course. Rember teh double Advent system? 4 large advents(I had that setup years and years ago) What would a double Whisper system do? I heard stories of some people doing just that!!! I don't think my house or the 3 on either side COMBINED are big enough for that!!!!

ddingle
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

I sold a bunch of the Advents back in the 70s.As I recall we used a comparison circuit with volume compensation called the "Lie Dectector" It was made or at least supplied by Advent.Even though we did not sell them we always had a pair of the 3 times more expensive JBL Studio 100s(as I recall)on display. If you balanced the levels and compared the larger (or the smaller) Advent to the JBL,it would be possible to have the Advent producing nice deep bass(Pink Floyd Heartbeat or a Saint-Saens Organ Symphony) and switching to the JBL produced no sound what so ever! Easy way to sell the Advents?
A balanced comparison between the Larger and Smaller would produce almost identical sound. Of course the Smaller would not play as loud
On another note: I thought Andy Petite(now Kotsakos) designed the later designs like the New Advent Larger in the late seventys along with the Powered Advents(killer sound,but unreliable) an internally amplified bi-amped version of the new Advents? I recall him coming on the scene later than the original Smaller? Could be wrong though. I still like Andy's current Boston line. It is our best selling line of speakers!

CECE
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

Hasn't Boston Acoustics now joined (been bought) by D&M Holdings? Marantz,McIntosh,Dennon,now also Boston Acoustics. D7M was formed when Philips sold off Marantz, a few years ago,. Philips owns like 15% of D&M Holdings...is D&M going the way of Harman International...Harman owns all kinds of pro top end stuff now, even AKG
(which was also a Philips own company) Now even Sennheiser is buying up brands, HHB, etc...audio business is super competitve, the strong and the great shall survive. did I mention vanalstine has been around almost 40 years now, independant, under his own name, while many many bigger firms have come and gone, or been brought into a group of companies. Where oh where is Carver, oh, that used to be Phase Linear, pooof, then Carver, pooof, then sunfire, (which has been bought by a firm called Linear?) so much for BOB being there with his soul and mind as they like to proclaim, there really is a BOB, not a nameless corp..oh really, lets try and get ahold of BOB ...the ads oare stupid...Harman which is a multi Billion audio company with all teh great brands they own, actually has Harman family in the operation, teh daughter and teh father...Harman from the team of Harman Kardon, who where there in teh begining of hi fidelity!!! Still doing it so many years later, that's greata. even many mags have folded, StereoPhile is still going.

ddingle
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Re: Small Advent review May Issue

It came to mind that when comparing products like the Advent from 30 years ago,you have to factor in low cost overseas manufacturing into the picture.The inflation corrected labor to manufacture the tweeter,woofer etc.would be significantly higher when the Advents were assembled.I am guessing .50 cents(Chinese Labor) an hour now corrected to 1973? .05 cent??per hour. I would guess the manufacturing labor for the Advent components to be more like 2 ro 3 bucks an hour.Minimum wage was something like $2.
It makes their value look even better!

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