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Anonymous (not verified)
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March absurd Burwen ad

Read the ad it claims to sound better than Cd and SACD...So Philips/Sony wasted MILLION$ of dollars in inventing DSD/SACD format? since this company can out do it, using the "old" CD discs? By reprocessing the Cd information, Hmmmmm, riiiiight. Why didn't they guys who invented the Cd know this could be done? HDCD and JVC's XRCD or whatever it was called, was useless too. The data on a Cd is what it is, it's like claiming line doublers on a tv is like HD broadcast image. Ain't never will be. They used to have stereo enhanced Mono LP's back in the "old" days...and it wasn't true stereo, and that's what it sounded like. Add a new set of wheels, and exhaust system on your Corolla and it's now just like Jetta GLI. There is a market for anything I guess.

Buddha
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Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Done deal!

Hey, since redbook CD's and their playback can't be improved upon, I guess I'll save alot of green and go buy a vintage 1986 player.

Thanks!

SACD?

No, thanks, I'll wait for the ultimate Blu Ray or Hi Def discs, they'll SMOKE SACD!

Maybe I'll wait for the format after that, it'll smoke whatever smoked SACD!

Yeah, that'll be great.

_____________________

On the TV note, how do you feel about line doublers improving the image quality of regular TV?

What's up with that? Didn't the broadcaster know that? Didn't the inventor of the broadcast device know that could be done? The data in a TV signal is what it is...line doubling of any kind is for suckers.

You like cars?

Did you know they have after market parts that claim to improve cars' performance?

What, did those car companies waste millions or billions of dollars? Didn't they know that those upgrades exist? No way can some small company invent something that improves what VW or Daimler invents. Geez, that's crazy talk.

_______________________

DUPP, if Burwen/Bobcat has a money back thing, I'd be curious to see what you'd hear if you try one.

I'd help chip in for the return shipping. It would be cool to see what you, a perfectly open minded but suspicious listener would hear!

That would be awesomely cool to get your take on the sound. I haven't heard one yet, I'd be highly interested in your opinion, since you aren't going into it planning on hearing anything in particluar!

CECE
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Re: Done deal!

I love how in the world of consumer audio, any body that finds claims ludicrious, don't have an open mind. What is the difference between an open mind and just an empty mindless one, that thinks you must beleive all the claims. How many crystals in magic wire do you hear? the difference between Blu-Ray and SACd for audio quality ain't gonna be the big improvement. Blu-Ray is all about capacity for HD movies. SACD/DSD was specifically about sound improvements. It accomplished this in an amazing way. do you think green ink nees to be applied to an SACD disc? How come no hucksters haven't come up with some new tweaks for SACD? No SACD demagnetizers? No SACD disc stailizers? No SACD specific cabling, you know a cable desinged for SACD higher sampling rates, and whatever people will fall for.

Buddha
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Re: Done deal!

Hi, DUPP!

My motto is, "Keep an open mind, but not so open that my your brains fall out."

I agree that some claims are nuts. No problem there, but digital sound, to my ear, has much wrong with it that I see it as highly open to improvement. Heck, so does analog sound!

If someone came up with a data processing algorhythm that addressed some digital artifact that is unpleasant to my ear, then I'd be just as crazy not to give it a listen!

Same with those new room correction devices - listen and see.

There are recording artifacts in EVERY medium. Even the master tapes have flaws. If the Bobcat people come up with something to mask those flaws, great!

I don't mean to imply that all tweaks will work, just that sometimes an aftermarket thing may help performance - just like cars or other devices where there is some initial cost/performance decision making.

The manufacturer of any piece of gear probably faces many decision points about cost and performance that he must make compromises on in order to get a product into the competitive marketplace.

If something we do later to make up for those deficicencies comes along, cool by me.

Maybe when they made the redbook CD standard there were some compromises that were made. Maybe the filters aren't as smooth as we'd like, but the cost of computing and producing better ones was prohibitive back in 1982, or whenever. If we have more computing power now and can go in and "fix" what the inventors were forced to compromise on, why would you not at least be willing to consider that?

Is a 25 year old format really "perfect sound forever?" Nobody can find any flaw and try to improve on it? That ain't right thinking, DUPP.

I have LP's that I get more info out of with my new cartridge than I could have with a state of the art cartridge 30 years ago. Would you claim that I am violating what the inventors of the LP intended, or would you comfortably that my playback machinery is better?

Why can't that happen with CD? I would expect the playback machinery to keep getting better and smarter! I want them to find computations that help more accurately recreate the aural information! Why do you think that is impossible?

What surprises me most is that we don't have many more devices that can massage the CD data and make it sound better.

So, every tweak for itself, sure, but not all new developments are crazy impossibilities. Our job is the seperate wheat from chaffe, not just smack a tambourine and call everything chaffe. That's crazy, too!

CECE
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Re: Done deal!

They did improve CD sound, SACD. Hybrid SACD, yes, you can hear the improvements on the same Cd player that plays the original CD only versions. then you hear it in DSD (on a CD player, not even SACD) and don't ever want to listen to teh original CD versions. Philips themselves explained teh comprimises in Cd development back in teh late 70's early 80's. and now that is why they introduced SACD/DSD. and also teh PATENT ran out on CD. so of course they need a new patent royalty fee coming in. Philips took in like $700 million a year in CD royaltys, for players, discs, even teh jewel box they owned the patent. so you see the new SACD boxes are" improved" new patent. Hucksters jump on anything to sell you a tweak. SACD is not a tweak, it's a new format. Blu-Ray is all about storage capacity, not sonic improvments. With the added data, HD can go on DVD. Well actually SACD/DSD is all about the data, more sampling, more data points, increased resolution. And like CD DVD patents are expriring, and thus Blu-Ray...more royalty money coming in. Philips and sony are business, without money streaming in, why bother? Make sure you have your cables in the correct direction, those crystal demons will make you hear some molecular interferences. and don't put your cables on a carpet, you know those vibrating copper crystals absord energy from the floor. Just last nite a LIVE show, noticed the guitarists walking all over those cables on the FLOOR!!!! Damn it sounded GREAT!!!! and the Marshall speaker cabinet was on non audiophile casters!!!!

Robert Deutsch
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Re: March absurd Burwen ad

I have no opinion about the supposed benefits of the Burwen Bobcat, but my eye was caught by this comment:

Quote:
...Add a new set of wheels, and exhaust system on your Corolla and it's now just like Jetta GLI.

You see I (like, presumably, the anonymous poster) have a Jetta GLI, and consider it the most underrated sports sedan. As for a comparison with the Corolla, the last time I had my 2003 GLI in for servicing I told the shuttle driver that I was not that taken with the styling of the latest Jetta, and he said it's referred to internally in the dealership as the "Jetrolla."

Bob

Jim Tavegia
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Re: March absurd Burwen ad

Robert,

You are right on...look at how healthy the "Modding" industry is. Creative people can "hotrod" anything, if the basic device is worth it.

To me the real issue is that a player like the Ayre CX-7E can make ALL your discs sound very, very good, and most likely a $1K SACD player MAY be better, in SACD.

What I see happen is that if a CD on the Ayre sounds as good as the SACD version on the $1 or $2K SACD player it proves that the hi-rez format can only do as much as the player will allow. I found this out when I bought my entry level Sony SACD player years ago and compared that to the CD version played through my Jolida JD100 tube CD player. Usually the Jolida sounded better to me. The Jolida is nice for the money, but it is not an Ayre. The Ayre C5-XE solves this problem, but not everyone can or wants to drop $5K on a player.

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