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Welshsox
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Mahler #3

Hi

Ive seen #2 which was magnificent and #4, which was good but not as memorable.

I have to the chance to see #3 in a few weeks at the Manchester Symphony hall in the UK, what are the thoughts on how it would compare to 2 & 4

Thanks

Alan

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Mahler #3

Kind of a mix. It has the scope of #2 but the scale/feel of it varies from that of #2 (say in the opening movement) to that of #4 (in the inner movements) to a combination in the last movement (the ecstatic catharsis of #2 with the gentleness of #4). It is also nearly as long as the two of them!

Kal

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3

Mahler's Three is long and takes a huge orchestra (eight French horns!) plus women's choir and boys' choir. It is his biggest symphony.

Complex, especially the first movement.

If you enjoy Mahler the finale is really something. If you don't, it will appear well over the top.

Prepare to be emotionally drained by the time it is done.

From my recollection of your musical preferences I think you will really enjoy it. Go and happily wallow in the excess!

Welshsox
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Re: Mahler #3

I will openly admit to enjoying the shallow end of music as well as the deep end !!

Im into the deep end of the rock world but in terms of classical i am definetly in the very shallow water.

What's the significance of a boys choir ? might be a stupid question but it would indicate a totally different sound to say a Welsh Male voice Choir ??

Im guessing that Max Boyce and the Rhondda male voice choir are not well known in the US !!

Alan

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3

A Welsh men's choir is hard to beat! Incredible sound.

A boys choir is made up of boys who have yet to reach puberty and hence their voices have not changed. A boys choir possesses a pure open sound, usually quite gentle.

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Re: Mahler #3

Hey Elk. How have you been?

Have you played any Mahler in the last year? If so, which one? Which one is toughest for the trumpet section, from your experience?

Dave

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3

Hi, Dave!

3 is tough. The score even recommends supplementing the highest parts with extra players on Eb trumpets. At least we then stand a chance against those eight horns and loads of percussion.

Welshsox
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Re: Mahler #3

Changing subject totally

I dont know how much your into sports, but you might have guessed im Welsh !! I use to watch my home town football team, there were a group of loyal supporters who members of the Rhos male voice choir, now hearing several thousand large lubricated Welshmen being led in song by the choir is something you dont easily forget. This sort of singing has very much died out over the last 30 years, primarily due to stadiums becoming all seated and the cosy but packed standing areas disappearing.

I know sports fans in the US are passionate but ive never heard anything like a Welsh soccer crowd in full passionate song

Alan

Welshsox
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Re: Mahler #3

Ive downloaded #3 and i dont know if its going to take a while but im not feeling it.

One thing that im beginning to realise is that every composers work can be so different, just because you liek say #2, it does not mean you will like any others.

Its so much easier in Rock music, a band has a very strong style and it changes little from record to record.

Alan

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
Its so much easier in Rock music, a band has a very strong style and it changes little from record to record.

That's one reason I don't care for rock music or rock concerts. It's all the same to me. :-)

Kal

Welshsox
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Re: Mahler #3

Kal

Missing the point

You get bladdered on Sam Adams then watch AC/DC, you have no interest in hearing anything new or innovative !!

Hells Bells and your a happy camper.

I absolutely enjoy nights like that, the thing i could not do though is limit myself to rock only, that would be sad

Alan

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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
ive never heard anything like a Welsh soccer crowd in full passionate song

That would be quite an experience!

I find that all of Mahler needs to grown on me. Some people enjoy his work immediately. I am one that needs to hear each piece at least a few times to get into it. This is often true of Brahms as well.

Give #3 a few more listens and see what you think. If you don't like it nothing is lost, and you have gained some additional knowledge in the process.

It is fascinating to contemplate what it would have been like to hear these pieces at a time when only live performance was available. You would hear it once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

We are so spoiled by having good recorded sound we can play back at whim.

pbarach
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Re: Mahler #3

It takes a while. The first movement, which runs over 30 minutes, has many themes and episodes. You have to just let it sink in with several repeated listenings until you start to feel the overall structure of this movement. Once it starts to seem familiar, then you'll recognize familiar "landmarks" as they pass by, and you'll see the ingenious way Mahler develops his themes and intermingles them. The other movements aren't as structurally complicated. I'd highly recommend you listen to Benjamin Zander's disk-long explication of how this symphony works (including with his Telarc recording). His performance (and the SACD sound) isn't too shabby, either.

Welshsox
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Re: Mahler #3

Hi

I hope you know that my next comment is not meant to be insulting or start anything like the other forums.

Ive listened to # 3 a few times now and the best way i can think of descibing it is as a movie sound track, it just feels disjointed and as if was written for something that is not there. It just does not seem to have any cohesion, what am i missing ?

Alan

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
Hi

I hope you know that my next comment is not meant to be insulting or start anything like the other forums.

Ive listened to # 3 a few times now and the best way i can think of descibing it is as a movie sound track, it just feels disjointed and as if was written for something that is not there. It just does not seem to have any cohesion, what am i missing ?

Alan

More experience? It is one of three Mahler symphonies that took me many, many hearings, live and on disc, to comprehend. They are 3, 7 and 8.

Kal

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3

I'm with Kal. This is why I suggested multiple hearings.

Some get it right away and easily. I find Mahler a challenge. The scope of the Third is so vast that it is hard to hold it in your head at one time to see the connections and the flow.

Beethoven's Ninth, last movement, is similar - it is a symphony onto itself - although more approachable.

Daverz
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Re: Mahler #3

An excellent documentary on the 3rd, complete with a full performance, is What the Universe Tells Me - Unraveling the Mysteries of Mahler's Third Symphony.

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
An excellent documentary on the 3rd, complete with a full performance, is What the Universe Tells Me - Unraveling the Mysteries of Mahler's Third Symphony.

Also, the Zander series on Telarc includes his discussion of the pieces.

Kal

lionelag
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Re: Mahler #3

I never got the 3rd until I heard the fantastic Horenstein version with the LSO, which has wandered in and out of print for years. The 8th never made sense until I heard it live.

Mahler's a weird bird, and everyone into classical music has at least two or three strong opinions about him. (I personally can't stand the 1st, but adore the 2nd, 6th and 9th.)

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3

I love it!

I like the First, especially the second movement.

JasonVSerinus
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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
Ive downloaded #3 and i dont know if its going to take a while but im not feeling it.

Alan

One of the reasons you may not be feeling it is that Mahler's work does not take well to mp3. Mahler makes great use of huge changes in dynamic range and contrasts in instrumental color. Both are butchered by mp3, especially in lower than 320 kbps quality. John Atkinson has written extensively about this.

Imagine giving up on sex because you tried it by phone, and it didn't do much for you. That's like wading in to Mahler No. 3, with a huge orchestra, two choruses, and soloist, via mp3.

jason

Elk
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Re: Mahler #3


Quote:
Imagine giving up on sex because you tried it by phone, and it didn't do much for you. That's like wading in to Mahler No. 3, with a huge orchestra, two choruses, and soloist, via mp3.

Excellent thought.

(Amusingly expressed).

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