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quadlover
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Made in China

i try to buy american and english but i have 2 chinese pieces that i am very happy with. a cayin integrated with an ipod (lossless)driving a pair of quad bookshelves in my business office. i get comments on it at least 2-3 times a week especially from non audiophiles for its style and sound quality. alot of people are amazed that they still make tube equipment. the black piano grade finish amazes everyone. telling people that it is made in china opens their eyes. i explain that like everything else in life there is good and bad in every industry from every country. don't be afraid of a product just because of where it is made or its price. for what it is worth my 2 systems at my house are mcintosh tubes with quad electrostats and mcintosh solidstate with shahinian obelisks

wkhanna
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Re: Made in China

Germany lost both wars.........how many VW

quadlover
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Re: Made in China

wkhanna,
i chuckled at your attempt at satire but i want to make myself clear. i don't care where or who builds a product i choose to buy as long as it 1. meets my approval sonically 2. is reliable 3. is supported by a manufacturer/importer/supplier/dealer network if i need assistance with that product. up until the last few years a number the american and english audio manufacturers met those standards for me. the asians met the quality but not the sonic except for very limited hard to find, limited support products, at least in my area. in the last few years the chinese and other asian countries have unleashed a variety of products that vary greatly in quality. look at what visio has done to the flat screen tv market. yet, if you talk to reputable video stores, ask them about visio;s service availability? just as dvd and cd players have down marketed to disposable cost marketing, we will probably see some fairly decent sounding (not to be considered state of the art) equipment at bargain prices. look at oppo as well. if memory serves me, one of the main reasons nad's prices were so attractive when they first hit the market was they were assembled in malaysia. that was roughly 25 years ago.

CECE
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Re: Made in China

You obviously missed the 60's, VW's where the thing. Also the VW Beetle was the world's biggest selling car ever, with over 27 Million sold, even outsold the Model "T" from Ford. VW was also the biggst car name in china up until just recently. They are alos teh largest car maker in Europe. VW, Audi, Bentley, Skoda,Lamborghini,Seat,Bugatti. VW was also the FIRST foreign car mfg to set up production in teh U.S>...they had a plant in Pa. They set teh standards for low cost high quality cars. Chinese are setting new LOWS for crap and dangerous crap. Food, kids toys, electrical stuff, defects defects defects, that kill, destroy property, avoid made in China at all cost. Especially if it's not at least a brand name with some standards, that might control it, catch teh crap before you buy it. Germany set teh QUALITY standards very high over teh years, but since they like to pay their workers a living wage and they live like civilized people, and they have enviormental standards, and most K-Mart shoppers types and Wal-Marters buy on price alone, they buy Chinese crap. It backfires when you buy on price only. There are of course mfgs that can make it priced right, and still be high quality, but that is not the norm for teh latest bunch of Chinese junk. I think it's a plot actually, to undermine teh world economy, and they wreak havoc...they are still sinister, and not trustworthy.
How many Chinese composers are famous for their music, how many GERMAN composers are? Ever hear Chinese music? Banging pans and pots together, And of course German company BASF invented teh magnetic tape, to record music in teh first place? Gramaphone....Emil Berliner, ever hear of the LP? German influence in audio, is as tremendous, like any other field.... How much Chinese music do you hear in teh U.S.? If you wanna call that stuff music?

wkhanna
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
i don't care where or who builds a product i choose to buy as long as it 1. meets my approval sonically 2. is reliable 3. is supported by a manufacturer/importer/supplier/dealer network if i need assistance with that product.


Agreed 100%
That's what I based my purchase of a 'made in Japan' Rotel RB-980BX amp 15 years ago on.
It still sounds V good, has not been babied, and pots and pans sound really good on it.

soundboy
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Re: Made in China

I don't have any serious issues at all with Chinese-made components....heck, they keep every manufacturers on their toes. If they can drive down the prices and still provide good quality gear, more power to them.

DUP....you're just too culturally ignorant to know how to experience good Chinese music.

CECE
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Re: Made in China

Please EXPLAIN how to experience Chinese music. Enlighten me , expand my limited view of all things worldly. This has to be a real treat. And another thing, Thai food is much better than Chinese grease. Thai music also blows. It's higher tuned pots and pans

Elk
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
Please EXPLAIN how to experience Chinese music.


Just as one would try to experience any art form with which one does not have experience; with an open mind.

It also can help to read and study a bit beforehand so that one knows a bit about the history of the art form, what is considered beautiful, etc.

The difficulty for many in listening even to Western classical music is that the structure is longer and more complex than R&B, blues and other forms of pop music. The melodic and development line can be thirty minutes, not just 12 bars. This is not a criticism of non-classical as there is great pop music. But it does illustrate how one has to approach listening differently for different types of music.

Another example is understanding Indian classical music. One needs to have some sense of the Ragas used, why they are used, ability to hear and appreciate micro-tones, etc. to start appreciating the art.

Classical Chinese music has a long, rich history. It's pretty amazing stuff once you give it a chance.

Audyn
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Re: Made in China

First, a declaration, I myself was made in China, moved here about 20 years ago. My taste, however, was mostly toward European, I love my Audi, BMW, Linn, Dynaudio, and many other European gears I have brought. In regards to music, I listen to mostly classical in recent years. I remember I could not stand the Chinese music played by my parent's generation.

From the above statement, if I am to agree with DUP, I would add that, besides Chinese, we should not buy American crap too. Of course, do not eat those fatty American food, and not listen to the junk American music.

Well, in fact, I do not agree with DUP at all. Take food for example, the food in high class restaurants in China are generally very delicately prepared and not greasy, those two elements are good indication of how good is a Chinese restaurant. I guess it is not much different from comparing food from your local MacDonald and French bistro, it is just not a fair comparison. Also, you can not go to a Manhattan's MacDonald and make judgement for all the restaurants in New York, it is stupid to make conclusion on partial facts.

For me, after a few days of careful diet, I would love to have a meal of greasy Chinese or fatty hamburgers; if I listen to Bach for 40 minutes, I would play Norah Jones for a change; I would not buy any American cars now, but I would not say never, and I am very tempted to buy an iphone, which I think is a great product made in the US. I would like to keep myself open-minded.

As to traditional Chinese music, I could not stand it before, and still do not like it, I kind of agree with your statement. However, I remember I could not stand classical music too, but now it is what I listen to the most.

I guess what made me write this is I did not like the tone of writing from DUP, and the term " Chinese crap" he used. It is fine if he choose not to buy a certain products, but it is naive to generalize Chinese products and food as a whole. I would feel equally bad if a European writes about "American crap".

wkhanna
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Re: Made in China

Ahhhh.....
The fresh breeze of diplomacy, tact and civility.......

Welcome aboard, Audyn.

smejias
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Re: Made in China

Thanks for an excellent post, Audyn.

Elk
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Re: Made in China

Nicely expressed, Audyn.

Made in China, here for 20 years, and still reliable!

ohfourohnine
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Re: Made in China

Thank you, sir, for an excellent post. I was musing recently about the number of threads in this forum that degenerate to pointless jousting with Carl (aka DUP) and hoping that wasn't driving away browsers who might have a real contribution to make. Well, you weren't driven away, and perhaps your statements will make some headway with Carl.

Please stick around and, when you're of a mind to, let us hear some more of your thoughts.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Made in China

Ancient Chinese proverb, "Do not agree with DUP at all."

I agree wih Cheapskate, nicely put.

Leave him alone, dup.

59mga
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Re: Made in China

An excellent post, Audyn.

As for Chinese quality...a Chinese automodile manufacturer has purchased the MG label from (that German company) Rover.
It seems Rover couldn't make a decent updated version of the MG so they sold the rights. The prototype that the Chinese company produced has proven to be quite a well made car. Production hasn't started but there already is a waiting list to purchase.

Editor
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Re: Made in China

Your post is a breath of fresh air, Audyn. Thank you.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

CECE
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Re: Made in China

Ain't Rover a FORD owned brand now, along with Jaguar and other's they are now selling off, since they rebuilt Jag factories into be able to produce cars that are more modern, but still not up to real cars from GERMANY Like Audi, VW, Benz. MG is another lost brand from England...Even Rolls Royce is now owned by...Germany.. (Austria) BMW, before that VW owned it for a while, got them up to modern standards, VW also owns Bentley, another former England brand. If MG had any value VW or BMW woulda' bought it. The best cars come from German ideas. Chinese auto maker Shanghi stole Audi ideas, VW was teh largest car brand for a long time..Chinese govt' sponsered theft, stole Audi ideas and start making Audi clones, typical. When you can't invent just steal it. Chinese business methods will have everyone at the WalMart level of living, you can have it, not me. Great line in a business magazine...The high cost of low prices!!!!

quadlover
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Re: Made in China

since this post started under my thread , i felt i had to give my final 2 cents. 1st off congrats to audyn for the outstanding post written. i agree withn it 100%. not only that, it is one of the few times that i have seen dup left without comment (no offense dup- you are a major reason most of us read & converse on this forum whether we agree or disagree)

59mga
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
Ain't Rover a FORD owned brand now

If that German company, Rover, made a decent product why was it sold to Ford?


Quote:
...not up to real cars from GERMANY Like Audi, VW, Benz.

Research has shown that these 3 German autos aren't as reliable as most Japanese autos..and they cast much more to maintain.


Quote:
If MG had any value VW or BMW woulda' bought it.

They tried to but the Chinese outbid them.


Quote:
The best cars come from German ideas.

Then why don't the Germans produce the "best cars"...and audio gear and video items, etc., etc. I guess everything that has a "Made in Germany" label on it is the best in the world.

Elk
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
... but still not up to real cars from GERMANY Like Audi, VW, Benz...


You really need to stay away from cars as a topic.

Mercedes has the current lowest quality control for cars sold in this country, with VW and Audi not far behind. The Japanese have superb quality control with many US cars pretty much in the middle right now. These rankings are in constant flux and the Germans may again produce cars with reliability befitting Mercedes' reputation for quality - but it appears that this will be a while.

More importantly however, have you made any effort to learn about Chinese classical music and then to give it an honest listen?

Jan Vigne
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
I guess everything that has a "Made in Germany" label on it is the best in the world.

Ever tasted German linguine?

CECE
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Re: Made in China

Chinese classical music, you have to be kidding me right? That and Indian music is unlistenable....Give me Buddy guy, SRV,Matt Oree,Gary Moore, Tinsley Ellis,Tommy Castro, Kenny Wayne Shepperd, music with some ENERGY and EMOTION...not incoherent noise of banging pots and spoons. Those Chinese musicans really took the world by stomr in the 60's..o wait that was from England. Everyone wants to be a Chinese rock star.. Can't play driums with chopsticks.

absolutepitch
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Re: Made in China

Getting back to audio...

Don't have anything audio equipment-wise that's made in China. In general, it looks like the quality is broad-spectrum, running from very good to very bad. But you get that from products made here too!

Still have a Dual turntable sitting in storage, made in Germany, and still like it. It is well-built. Needs lube & cleaning. What about mbl speakers, and others, from Germany?

Most of my actively-used gear is made in USA, with R-R tape deck made in Japan. CD player is Magnavox (Philips), with my own wire and cap mods. Made my own cables, both interconnect and speaker.

Also in the spirit of "cheapskate", I have a difficult schedule and read posts even more irregularly.

59mga
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
Ever tasted German linguine?

It has a hint of 'kraut.

bifcake
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Re: Made in China


Quote:

Quote:
Ever tasted German linguine?

It has a hint of 'kraut.

Isn't Sour Kraut a German in a bad mood?

magma90210
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Re: Made in China

i've got no problem with china. i like asian traditional music. i mostly just wanted to post this steely dan line which i alway thought was a great lyrics:

Chinese music always sets me free
Angular banjoes
Sound good to me
Aja
When all my dime dancin is through
I run to you

59mga
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Re: Made in China


Quote:
i've got no problem with china. i like asian traditional music. i mostly just wanted to post this steely dan line which i alway thought was a great lyrics:

Chinese music always sets me free
Angular banjoes
Sound good to me
Aja
When all my dime dancin is through
I run to you

Well, if the pattern follows (3rd world countries advancing) and China progresses, they will soon be singing..."I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah."

59mga
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Re: Made in China


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Ever tasted German linguine?

It has a hint of 'kraut.

Isn't Sour Kraut a German in a bad mood?

Yes, but the attitude is quickly altered with a few of those German beers.

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