I have to agree with Sam Tellig on the "Made in China" thing. If it wasn't for the horrendous experience I had with Harmon Kardon's Chinese made receivers or Infinity's speakers I would never have upgraded to products like Vandersteen speakers or B&K amps which, obviously, are made in the U.S.A. So maybe the corner cutting communist audio is good for the high end. I will most likely never (willfully) buy anything audio that says "Made in China" again, which is pretty much the entirety of the mass market. Jeeze even "Made in Japan" isn't so bad anymore. At least they're not creating the kind of enviromental disasters in the name of economic world domination that communist china is. Although it's becoming harder and harder to do so I urge everyone out there to boycott products with the "Made in China" label, no matter how great they may at first seem to be.
My BMW 7 seriers broke down on freeway last week, and the fact that Germany started the World War II, (applying the logic of mentalflycoon), maybe we should boycott product "made in Germany" too. Well, on second thought, I still love my bimmer, better boycott only products "made in China".
If it wasn't for German science and inovation, there would be no magnetic recording tape, no jet engines, no rockets, no aspirin no Pharma industry. No interstate highway system, no cars, Germans invented it all China invented gunpowder and spaghetti, and are the world's worst enviormental country...their products are sub par, they don't give a crap with too many people, they don't care if they loose 100 million people here or there. At least Germans think like the rest of teh civilized world. Normal. BASF developed magnetic recording tape, Bayer invented aspirin, still a miracle pill over 100 years later. they invented teh jt plane, engine, rockets VonBraun....U.S. interstate highway system is based on teh AutoBahhn, Eisenhower seen teh autobahn after WW2 and said what a great idea....if not for German inovation, teh world would be pretty backwards. Daimler Benz invented developed teh first car, and they are still in business world's oldest car maker. China just realized they need to join teh world, after how many centurys of being bizzare? China still has a wall, Germany got rid of their's. Emile Berliner, deveopled teh record, everything came from Germany. Even teh Christmas tree
Geramsn also invented teh multi valve engine, the Wankel rotary used in Mazdas, fule injection, Diesel engine still the best after 100 years, man teh list of GERMAN inovations is endless..think how boring the world would be without GERMAN inventions...it changed everyones life over the years...Even GERMAN food is better than Chinese. Suburu even uses Boxster engine a GERMAN idea. Endless Endless stuff from Germany. China does have it's wall, and lotsa undrinkable water, and unbreathable air, and lotsa stolen copywrited materials. And kids toys made with lotsa sweet tasting lead paint, and food that is tixic...hardly inovations, just poor quality.
It is childish to talk about which country is better.
China has its beautiful culture, however, in my opinion, Chinese has lost many of its traditional value, taste, and sophistication after the western invasion, and especially, as a result of the adoption of communism. Is China to be blamed for everything? did Chinese invented communism? did Chinese started the industrial revolution? was China the first polluted country?
I agree that China, with its rapidly westernizing society and growing economy, is unsophisticated in many regards. Are the changes in China have been for the better or worse? I guess it is up to interpretation, but for me, with a narrow perspective as the discussion here is in the stereophile's forum, by observing from the up-rising fever for hifi I sensed over there, I say the changes are mostly for the better.
I thought the stereophile forum is supposed to discuss our love for audio equipment and music, not hate. Many of us started our audiophile journey with NADs, me too, I started by buying a NAD C320 integrated and a C521 CD player for about $700, I believe both were made in China. I did not buy them because they were cheap, I selected them because I read many rave reviews about their performance, and of course, they were affordable to me at the time. I remember vividly the excitement I felt when setting up my first "real" stereo system, I got hooked ever since.
I am running a pair of Linn Klimax pre and power amps(made in Scotland), a Orpheus Zero transport and a Orpheus One SE DAC(Switzerland), a pair of Dyaudio C1 speakers(Denmark), Vitus cables(Denmark), and Crystal cable cables(Holland). Am I likely to buy an audio equipment made in China in the near future? no. However, the NAD would always fills a sweet spot in my memory.
I thought the stereophile forum is supposed to discuss our love for audio equipment and music, not hate.
Can we have that posted somewhere permanently on the forum?
Well it seems clear that my hope that Audyn's first post might make some headway with DUP was futile. At least Audyn has stayed around. I wonder if he's aware of the "ignore" function? These days I'm convinced that the only things keeping the forum going in a positive direction are the Entry Level segment and the ignore function.
There is another way but, so far, it has been resisted by the moderators.
Stay positive Audyn. Many of us who've been here for awhile have become worn down by a level of hatred, ignorance and downright rudeness that has contaminated this forum.
How many hours a day do you meditate? You sound a bit too "Zen" for this crowd.
Well spoken. I am not ashamed to admit, my entire listening room full of gear is made in China, from my G&W Power Conditioner to my Aurum Cantus Speakers, Xindak Cables,and ShengYa Hardware. Now the internals have components from France,Japan,Holland, etc etc etc.
I find no room on forums personaly for rampant Nationalism and Jingoistic rantings.
And I personally think Drunken Master 2 was the best Movie Jackie Chan ever made.
It's just JUNK, nothing to do with nationalism etc...junk is junk, don't be brining nonsese like racism and stuff, the stuff made is junk. READ THIS http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=144988
My first venture into audio was Dynaco, made in Phila then New Jersey..speakers tt all made in Mass. Nothing Chinese or anywhere else. Back in teh late 60's early 70's, China was just getting opened up by Nixon. Even Communists need Capitalis money....no regime operates without MONEY. It's just how it's distributed. Even Russia woke up and realized their system sucked...What did China ever do to advance teh science of audio, didn't it all happen from Europe and teh U.S., name one breakthrough in audio from China since the dawn of hi fi, it all happened in Europe or teh U.S., Japan jumped on board after it was created, now China is doing the same routine. Made in Korea is better anyway. At least Korea don't send over poison food stuffs and highly defective electrical products...
For those wrote supportive notes to my posts, thanks! Yesterday, I was just checking out the forum, seeing what's new in the audio world, and fortunately or unfortunately, I read the two "made in China" threads, and I could not help but respond. I appreciate Jan's advice to stay positive, and cheapskate's advise of using "ignore" button often, I think I will try do both in the future.
DUP, its funny how so many of us love junk here in the US. China is going to pass Germany as the world #3 economy, see link: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ch...44C77B142A0C%7D, mostly because we buy so many Chinese products. I wonder why so many American settled on junk instead of good value German products?
I could not name a breakthrough in audio from China, I am just not knowledgable in technical stuff. However, if you are to visit Los Angeles, I would be able to find you a Chinese restaurant that is not too greasy---just to prove that you could be wrong.
I remember when I was a kid, everyone used to say that Japanese made products are junk and that the Japanese can do nothing but to make cheap knock offs of Western products. As the Japanese economy evolved and their labor cost increased, the Japanese had to reinvent themselves by making better made, more expensive products. Now, the Japanese quality is considered to be on par with Western made products.
The same thing will happen in China, but it will take a lot longer because they have so many people that it will take decades for the price of labor to increase. Alas, once that happens, the Chinese will reinvent themselves and the moniker "Made in China" will have a coveted cachet among consumers around the world. Then, we will be having the same discussion about products made in India or Indonesia. It's the same cycle over and over. The West does not have a monopoly on expensive products and they certainly do not have a monopoly on quality.
PS. My sister's cat's name is Audyn. I had no idea he was Chinese. Funny... he doesn't look it.
By teh time China gets rid of all it's corrupt officials, and total disregard for anything other than money making, to support their military buildup, we should be on MARS by then...that's why there is now a puch to get to MARS. China can then ruin the entire planet with it's disregard for enviormental issues, since they won't have any clean drinking water China will be one big sewer, more than it is now, they will be attacking Europe and North America, for fresh air and water, we will be gone, moved to MARS. A big SOLD sign on North America and Europe, South America and Africa will have to deal with china themselves, no more U.S. bailing out other countrys. 2050 is coming. I think on MARS audio will sound better warmer, due to the red soil. Sim Moon will become Sim Mars, and AQ will have an entire new line of Mars based wires...no more rivers, mountains. Just stones, rocks and artifacts of teh previous human civilization that was on MARS 2 million years ago, then cam ehere, now we go back, been like that since the begining. History repeats itself, dont'cha know. 100W on MARS is equal to 203W on Earth...
Thank God for China! With the USSR gone, we'd have no one to blame. Yeah, there's always Canada, the old standby, but China is so much better. They're not like us, you know.
this made in china or china bashing is getting ridiculous. bottom line...if it is good we will buy it. if not its history. if the american companies built to the quality of the 60's and 70's we would scream today because of constant tweaking and alignment cleaning needed back then. so dont blame the japanese, koreans, chinese and others for attempting to give the world a product at a price point they want. mcintosh, for example, has survived by keeping itself focused on its customer base. right now most of the chinese products are for the entry level. don't hold an entry level chevy aveo (actually a rebadged korean daewoo) to the quality level of a lexus, mercedes or a cadillac. it is not fair. but just as the koreans have learned to react to the quality issue with their vehicles (compared to 5-10 years ago) so it is with the chinese. remember when the iron curtain tubes became available and everyone was afraid they were junk? the end of the cold war helped us rediscover the beauty that tubes can help in the music reproduction chain. now lets use this forum to discuss our passion for music and audio reproduction and not national prejudice,stereotyping, or political grandstanding!
Well said, Quadlover.