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tom collins
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Legacy Whispers

a friend of mine became a legacy dealer this week. he toured the factory and brought home a set of Whispers. I helped him unload so was there when he hooked up his 8 watt custom made Morrow Audio SET mono blocks. If you want to see unusual design in a very large speaker, check out their website. Anyway, right out of the box, the sound was smooth and mellow. Just a little down on bass, but the 8 15" woofers were brand new and it was an SET. I had also brought over an Arcam P80 stereo amp that I no longer use, so we hooked that budget solid state amp up (65w 8ohm, 105w 4ohm). More bass, still very smooth, but not the last word in detail obviously. I was very impressed that these speakers could sound very musical with a $1200 budget solid state amp or $8,000+ SETs. It should be interesting to see how they do once broken in.

I was very surprised. I recently heard some Eggleston Andreas which cost $10,000 more and would say they were competative.

Anyone else have any experience with these speakers? Would like to hear about it.

Tom

Jan Vigne
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Re: Legacy Whispers

I can't believe a SET survived this speaker; http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/806legacy/index4.html

Everyone knows you need at least 5,000 watts.

tom collins
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Re: Legacy Whispers

i didn't expect what i heard. however, this version of the speaker is updated from the one in the review. i have learned lately that all watts are not created equal (i mean that figuratively, not literally). other factors such as current flow and impedence matching enter the equasion. i expect his amps flow a lot of current for their rating.
as i said, it was not the last word in bass extension with those amps, but was surpisingly good.

linden518
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Re: Legacy Whispers

DUP hyperventilated about Legacy speakers so much, that whatever real merits Legacy speakers might have had got lost in his usual vitriol. I'm sure they sound great, especially coming from you, TC, but whenever I hear "Legacy Loudspeakers" I associate DUP's witlessness with it. Forever damaged I am (sorry, Legacy)

ncdrawl
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Re: Legacy Whispers

cool pic of JA in DUPs room

Xenophanes
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Re: Legacy Whispers


Quote:
I can't believe a SET survived this speaker; http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/806legacy/index4.html

Everyone knows you need at least 5,000 watts.

The Whispers are fairly sensitive and the impedance is not very low in the most of the bass and midrange, so it is not surprising that an 8 watt tube amp could drive them reasonably well at moderate volume levels.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Legacy Whispers

You and I must be looking at two different pages from the archives;


Quote:
However, the Legacy's impedance plot (fig.1) indicates that the speaker is quite a demanding load, at least at high frequencies. While the woofer section (shown to the left of this graph) drops below 4 ohms only between 24Hz and 29Hz, the midrange-tweeter section drops to 4 ohms at 3kHz and reaches a minimum value of 2.75 ohms at 9kHz. In addition, the electrical phase angle is also quite large in the low treble, which will magnify the demands for current made by the speaker on the partnering amplifier. A hefty, 4 ohm
Xenophanes
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Re: Legacy Whispers

"Hefty" is an adjective without a definite technical meaning. Those Morrow amps certainly seem to weigh enough!

Of course, Morrow Audio carries--guess what--Legacy loudspeakers! So they must think their amps will do OK with them and I imagine Legacy does, too.

http://www.morrowaudio.com/products.htm

The Legacy Whisper is fairly sensitive (JA guessed about 92 dB) so it is not surprising the Morrow SET could drive it to moderate levels. The impedance only drops below 4 ohms in a narrow part of the deep bass and above 3 kHz, and there is ordinarily less musical energy that high. I did not say the 8 watt set would be an ideal choice, but it seems to work fairly well at whatever levels the OP was playing. The Adcom would seem to me a better choice but then I am not the one who is using the speakers.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Legacy Whispers

How silly of me! I didn't realize in your world "hefty" was the equivalent of heavy as in Giant Economy Size - 40 Hefty Lawn and Garden bags or, "My! that's one hefty baby you have there, m'am".


Quote:
The impedance only drops below 4 ohms in a narrow part of the deep bass and above 3 kHz, and there is ordinarily less musical energy that high. I

OK, now you've gone and said something really dumb. I'll quote it again for you;


Quote:
In addition, the electrical phase angle is also quite large in the low treble, which will magnify the demands for current made by the speaker on the partnering amplifier. A hefty, 4 ohm
Xenophanes
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Re: Legacy Whispers

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The OP seems to think the Morrow SET amp works reasonably well with the Legacy Whispers.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Legacy Whispers

Xeno, you are a first class dork! Go back and read my first post. No, I know you won't bother so here it is;


Quote:
I can't believe a SET survived this speaker ...

OK? I can't believe a SET survived this speaker. But it did. So?! It says a lot about the quality of the SET and probably about the music played through the system.

It doesn't change the fact the Whispers are a very difficult load for any amplifier (as suggested by JA's recommendation for a "hefty" amplifier) and the current demands of the speaker are not well suited to a SET. Weight issues aside, the Morrows must be well built amplifiers.

Unlike you ...

Quote:
The Whispers are fairly sensitive and the impedance is not very low in the most of the bass and midrange, so it is not surprising that an 8 watt tube amp could drive them reasonably well at moderate volume levels.

... I looked at the whole of the speaker's reactive load.

And I am still surprised a SET survived this speaker let alone sounded rather good according to the op. I am even more surprised the triode used was a 300B.

The Whisper is not well suited to an amplifier that will so drastically interact with the load and have difficulty driving current on demand over long periods of time. Yep, if the music was limited to something not very dynamic and did not contain wide ranging frequency demands, say, a harp and flute, the Whispers should sound almost lush with a high quality SET.

Yet none of that changes the limitations of the average SET or the demands of the speaker. The amplifiers should be given credit for withstanding such treatment.

tom collins
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Re: Legacy Whispers

op here again. sorry to start a controversy. i was back again last night listening to the morrow/whisper combo. a pair of the subs has now been added and the amps no longer have to contend with under 100hz loads. this was a help. however, when i made my first post, the excitement of unwrapping a new speaker was still fresh. i now have a more refined perspective.
first - the morrow amps are extraordinary and probably far under priced. no part is less than excellent. i have heard them in another, more contventional system with living voice speakers and they sound great there too.
second - being more critical last night, i noticed that the voices, mid and high were as clear, clean and immediate as the first night and what you would expect from SETs. but, i have to admit that there was a suckout above where the subs cut in. it is probably asking just a little too much to ask an SET amp to drive 8 15 inch woofers to fullness. i still stand by my original statement that the combo sounded good, but might not have been all it could be in the low end. my point was somewhat to mention my surprise at the fact that 2 such different amps (solid state arcam too) could sound good on that huge speaker.

new chapter. fear not, help is on the way as my friend has an Ayon amp with 120 watts per side on the way. i would have taken my cary 120S over there and hooked it up if it were not so darned heavy. i expect that Ayon amp will fill up the bass nicely. however, i would love to hear a 500watter on those speakers.
adieu until the next installment.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Legacy Whispers

tc - It was not you who started the "controversy".

You say you heard the SET's and the Legacy's once again. What amplifier is the dealer showing with the speakers as a typical set up?

tom collins
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Re: Legacy Whispers

he will be using an Ayon Triton integrated that outputs 100 watts in ultralinear and 60 in triode, with KT88 tubes.
my opinion (not the dealer's opinion as far as i know) is that these speakers would also do well with solid state, probably best in the 200 and up range. even though the high-end uses ribbons, they did not sound over-cooked when the arcam was attached, just not as nuanced as with the set (no surprise there).
i'll let you know how they do with the ayons if you are interested.

Xenophanes
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Re: Legacy Whispers

You have to understand: anything that can be perceived as disagreeing with Jan Vigne is controversial.

I have no idea what the actual performance of the Morrow amp is like, never having seen measurements. I have assumed that it delivers approximately the same amount of power into 8 and 4 ohms, and the speakers are fairly sensitive.

Within their operating limits, many amps don't sound all that different. There is a lot of hype around amplifiers. They say Earl Geddes has shown his Summa speakers in shows using an $150 Pioneer receiver with excellent results.

bifcake
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Re: Legacy Whispers

Tom,

My friend Stew upgraded his Focal Utopias to Legacy Whispers. He had them driven by the McIntosh MC501 amps (500watts per channel). The Whispers sounded big, good, but a bit harsh. DUP came over to Stew's house and hooked up his AVA modified Hafflers, which put out I think something like 800 wpc. The Whispers sounded noticeably better, but still a bit harsh on loud passages. When DUP hooked up the AVA phase inverter and added a second amp, the Whispers came into their own. They sounded awesome, almost as good as our all time reference the Avantgarde Trios with Bass Horns for a fraction of the price. Stew wound up selling the Focals, the McIntosh and bought DUP's AVA modified amps and a phase inverter from AVA. As far as I know, his upgrade cycle is over. His system sounds better than anything we've ever heard except for the Trios, which are considerably bigger and more expensive and the delta in sound quality doesn't justify the price.

If you're in NY area, you may want to ask Stew if he would audition his set up for you. PM me if you want his contact info.

tom collins
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Re: Legacy Whispers

alex: thank you for your reply. from time to time, the server revokes my posting privileges. stephen can't figure it out, but for the moment, i am back. i remember the discussion at the time involving dup's system. my friend's system is coming along, but they take a long time to break in.

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