tgiencke
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Improving iTunes for music discovery (use a better DAC)
ncdrawl
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itunes is bloated garbage.

FOOBAR is the answer. has ASIO ouput, is light on resource use, very user friendly and easy to customize..plays any format out there, can convert files, stream them, burn them, organize them... has spectrogram/graph/bitmeter/loudness metering visualization plugins.. if you want to discover music, use pandora, last fm, etc.. buy the cd, and use foobar to play em..

audioclash
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I must admit, I too, use itunes quite a bit. I use a pro ject DAC to up convert and it makes a big difference. It's definitely not perfect, and I try to use it as little as possible, but sometimes I just need that instant gratification or don't feel like buying a full album.

Elk
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The MSB Link DAC is a great piece. I didn't know that they are still available.

I don't think you can do anything else to make iTunes sound better other than to play them through a decent DAC and headphones/speakers. As you have noted, this helps a good deal.

ncdrawl
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you can also use Itunes with the foobar engine..there is the thought that sound quality differs from player to player..

http://news.tigerdirect.com/2007/10/02/itunes-sounds-mud-compared-to-foobar-2000/

Elk
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Even Foobar disclaims that it sounds better than other players. I like Foobar, and use it - but it isn't magic.

All iTunes needs to sound good is to turn any processing it has off.

ncdrawl
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naw, it isnt magic, but I do believe that there are variations from player to player. I like foobar because of the ASIO output, the WASAPI output mode(bypassing windows kernel mixer, bit perfect), the low resource load, and the thousands of customization options..open source..

I also believe that there are sound differences amongst the various DAW programs. ... there is a comparison somewhere...

www.src.infinitewave.ca

http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/dither.htm

ROLO46
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Quote:
itunes is bloated garbage.

Now that's what I call objective.....

Tunes is a jewel waiting to be polished'

Ignore MP3.

Rip cds @ Applelossless with full error correction.
Use I-Volume for non destructive normalisation.
Use a Mac optical/Firewire out to the best processer you can afford.

Or if you are a PC'ist USB

Then you have a almost magical Indexed library of music (24b 44.1k on a Mac) with fun things like Genius and Cover Art free.
Best to subscribe to store (only for software change
No need to purchase.
Its the best thing to happen to my music in 40years...

Roger.

Elk
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Quote:
naw, it isnt magic, but I do believe that there are variations from player to player.


Not if the player is simply passing the bits accurately to either a soundcard or a DAC.

Of course, if you are using some sort of DSP or other processing in your player all bets are off.

I like Foobar for the same reasons you mention. But it doesn't sound any better than any other player. In fact, it can't sound any better.

DAWS are vastly more complicated, of course. There can be differences in sound for a variety of reasons, such as how they internally process mixing multiple tracks, how well they do so in real time, etc.

The better DAWs however vary little in sound quality when allowed enough computer time to do their job and to output in other than real time. But you knew that.

ncdrawl
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thats the rub, though, elk.. passing the bits ACCURATELY.

foobar has ASIO output(in other words, avoiding the normal audio path from the app through the bog of windows software,directly to the soundcard hardware)... with Itunes and the PC, there is no way to avoid having the bitstream processed through the kernel mixer...kmixer-not bit perfect..ASIO is.

Elk
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Yes, an improperly set-up player can sound worse than a properly setup player.

Foobar without ASIO and with its DSP and gain replay in operation will similarly not sound as good.

This is not inherent to the player, but to how it is being used.

Once again, Foobar sounds now better than any other player.

But setup does matter. If Foobar used in conjunction with an ASIO third-party add-on, together with something like ASIO4all or Creative's ASIO driver is easy to set up for you than by all means go with it.

ncdrawl
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I use the WASAPI output for foobar.

I do think that in the case of foobar vs itunes, foobar will always trump it sound-wise on a pc due to the inability of itunes to bypass the kernel mixer. setup makes all the difference, but itunes is unable to be set up correctly, thus making its consideration as part of a "high end" computer based solution questionable at best. I stand by my assertion, but its all good, Elk, from one sound engineer to another,

tgiencke
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I'll just make my life easier and stick with my Mac.

-Todd Giencke

dcstep
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I'm using iTunes to rip CDs to Lossless with Error Correction turned on. Today I downloaded a fresh CD and then copied it to my iPod Classic 160. I docked the iPod to a Wadia 170i and ran coax digital Out into my Playback Designs MPS-5's digital In. When I compared the file playback of the iPod/Wadia/PD trio to the PD playing the disc, the output was indistinguishable using my AKG 701 headphones driven my Woo Audo WA6 headphone amp at high levels.

The Playback Designs is one of the better CD/SACD players around, with a DAC that upsamples RBCDs to DSD. The coax In circuit reclocks the digital input and upsamples to DSD also, so it's a pretty slick hi-rez solution. I still prefer most SACDs but this is a very satisfactory compression/decompression result and superior to most CD players that I've heard.

Dave

ROLO46
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itunes is unable to be set up correctly, thus making its consideration as part of a "high end" computer based solution questionable at best.

I-Tunes works better on a Mac
Why fight it

Roger

ncdrawl
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why fight it indeed, hell, why even use it when there are better options around.


Quote:
itunes is unable to be set up correctly, thus making its consideration as part of a "high end" computer based solution questionable at best.

I-Tunes works better on a Mac
Why fight it

Roger

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Quote:
itunes is unable to be set up correctly, thus making its consideration as part of a "high end" computer based solution questionable at best.

I'm using iTune on Vista Ultimate machines to manage my iPod, iPhone and Apple TV with no major issues. (My daughters, on MacBook Pros, had the same issues that I did when the new iPhone G3 came out and Apple forgot about the gen-1 iPhones for a while a screwed up the firmware. Apple quashes their mistakes and acts like nothing happened, but they screw about as frequently as Windows, so far as I see with my experience with the two systems).

Roger, what problems do you have you had setting up iTunes?

Dave

ROLO46
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I can truthfully say no problems whatsover.

I purposely bought an I-Mac for music only
Its cheap by Meridian standard.
My tunes have gone from 6-8v and got better all the time
When the version changes you must renew permisions.
I also record on my Mac in GB via an Apogee Duet firewire and again this has been fautless.
Had my Meridian 518 processer not had an optical in perhaps it would not have been such a smooth transisition from spinner to HD .
Firewire and optical are in my opinion better than usb and are dedicated ports.
Buying a surround processer (M568.2) and going 3 channel was another major step in fidelity and image stability.
My many old cds in lossless codec ,with emphasis and noise shaping do sound like remasters of the better kind
24 bit upscaling works and I-Tunes cataloging is a joy. so I am more than pleased by my decision to go computer 2 years ago.
My friend who does home studio visits for Sound on Sound magazine will not remedy PC music faults only Macs and my other friend who runs a HiFi company says Macs are best for music.
I'm not making this up, honest.
Roger imho

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