JackCrank
JackCrank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Feb 15 2008 - 1:44pm
The great leap forward (in amplifiers)...
linden518
linden518's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Dec 12 2007 - 5:34am

Hey, Jackcrank! Good to see you here again. I don't have a clue what the Linn speakers sound like, but I just did a quick search on google, & it says they're 85db/8 ohms... recommended minimum amp power: 30wpc. But don't be too overly concerned about the #'s. My Leben is 28wpc on EL34s, and it drives my Harbeths (86db/8ohms) just fine. I think a good, quality push/pull tube integrated can definitely drive your Linns, no prob, but you can forget about SETs. You should definitely look into Rogue Cronus. Totally w/in your budget, and delivers 55 wpc, which is a lot of power for a tube integrated. Plus it runs on a quad of EL34s, which you'll like if you like the warm, gorgeous mid-range sound (I'm currently running Svet EL34s with my Leben... the same tubes that come stock in Cronus, I think.) Great bass w/ those tubes, big, warm, liquid sound. I think you can also get it w/ phono stage, which is a definite plus. It also has a headphone-out, which can be great if it's done well... you should definitely pack a pair of cans w/ you when you go audition. If everything works out, the Cronus'd be a bargain; saves you $ you'd have to have spent on phono stage & headphone amp. Sound by Singer should have these, so have them set it up so that you can A-B Cary vs Rogue Audio stuff. Maybe throw the Pathos in there.

I love Pathos... I don't know how you liked it, but it was one of the most gorgeous sounding integrateds. I also like the fact that it was a hybrid, but at times, it sounded more tube-like than some straight-out tube amps. 70wpc is a lot of juice, too. You'd have to go Audiogon for these, can get it for ~$1800... but it's up to you whether you're cool w/ used or not. Definitely go for MkIII, though.

If you want to try solid state, though, I'd be tempted to try the LFD Zero III if I were you. I've heard many people describe the sound as "SET-like," and it's supposed to sound gorgeous. I think you get to try it for a period of time, money-back guarantee. Plus one great thing about the LFD amps is that they'll hold up on their resale value later... smart buy.

Maybe you can try Manley Labs Stingray (although I think it looks kind of hideous ) or Cayin A88T.

jackfish
jackfish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 5 months ago
Joined: Dec 19 2005 - 2:42pm

I'd listen to a Jolida JD 1000RC if you can. Those speakers are sensitivity rated 85 dB for 1 W at 1 m at 1 kHz which will use all of that 100 wpc.

mrlowry
mrlowry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 2 days ago
Joined: May 30 2006 - 1:37pm

What is in your system top to bottom?

JackCrank
JackCrank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Feb 15 2008 - 1:44pm

Good to be back and good advice from all, much appreciation. My system top to bottom is Grado RS-1'sw or Linn Katan's passively biwired with nondescript speaker cable, the Linn Classik, a grado PH-1 phono stage connected with nordost blue heavens, to a Pro-ject Expression III connected with monster cable (going to replace with nordost one of these days) with their carbon fiber tone arm and the Sumiko Blue point III evo.

I acutally wasn't a big fan of the Pathos, it couldn't come close to the Luxman I A/B'ed it with. I'm definitely interested in the manley (heinous looking as it is) but it looks like I'm gonna have to hit singer this week to scope out the others you mentioned.

JackCrank
JackCrank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Feb 15 2008 - 1:44pm

Oh also forgot to mention, the vast majority of my listening is punk and metal so I do appreciate some good thump in the lower end. Divider, which Leben are you listening through and how do you like it? I've found that the two Lebens I've listened through just don't have the oomph I'm looking for but the primaluna definitely did.

linden518
linden518's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Dec 12 2007 - 5:34am

Hey, dude. My Leben is the CS600, which is the bigger brother to the 300 series, and has the extra power. I listen to rock & punk all the time, no problem, although haven't tried much metal, except for Mastodon's 'Leviathan' one day, just to see if my system can do it. I was pretty convinced, but I'd agree that Leben & Pathos might be less suited/voiced for metal than some other amps.

The Jolida that jackfish mentions should have no problem rockin' out: 100 wpc for a tube integrated is pretty nuts! But there's a LOT of tubes in that Jolida, so you need to be on top of them for maintenance & troubleshooting. And if you tube-roll, it will cost you double the usual (for example, if a matched quad of some NOS output tubes cost $250 or something, you gotta step it up to $500 w/ the Jolida.) And believe me: if you go tube amps, you WILL tube-roll, even if not with NOS tubes. And $80 (for Winged C EL34s, for example) will sound better than $160 every time, especially for the young and way-less-than-wealthy people like ourselves.

Now that I know your musical preference, I think I have a better idea about what to recommend. (I should've figured that out from your Stooges LP when we went to In Living Stereo... ) I think you'll like KT-88 tube amps. KT-88s will sound bigger & more dynamic, and give you that oomph you're looking for. Definitely ballsier than EL34s. This may also be the reason why the Primaluna sounded bigger than the Leben: they use KT-88s as output tubes. My Leben can take KT-88s, but that would mean I have to keep the top cover off to accommodate their height... no good.

Instead of Rogue Cronus, you should audition the Rogue Tempest. A quad of KT-88s = 90 watts at 8 ohms. That's almost the power of the Jolida with less tubes to worry about. The budget option for KT-88 amp is the Yaqin MC-100B, which you should be able to find for around $500-600... I definitely considered it & it has an excellent reputation. Some people in this forum also took a look at its parts & circuitry & deemed it very high in quality. There's a thread about it here:

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...1&fpart=all

I wouldn't be surprised if the Yaqin comes close to Rogue or Jolida in performance, at fraction of their cost. Looks awesome, too. Also try Cayin A-88T, which also use KT-88s. Very pretty, too... but I heard from some people that the Yaqin actually is a better amp than the Cayin. It's only hearsay, so take from it what you will.

Also: are you married to the idea of tubes? For metal & rock, you might prefer solid state amps for what they offer. My Leben is fantastic on the Harbeths (& more musical and complex), but when I sub in my 150 wpc Plinius 8150, it just owns & pillages the Harbeths. Especially on dense, heavier, faster music. Way tighter grip, slam & control - especially in the bass - and frightening dynamism. Moves air like a motherf*cker. And it does all this in ways that are completely musical. I guarantee you that on a lot of the metal/punk LPs, the Plinius (or other SS amps of similar quality) will just KILL in ways that Leben/Rogue/Prima/Jolidas simply can't. Those ultra fast guitar runs will sound clearer than through some tube amps while still sounding liquidly musical, as it's also known to have a tube-like warm sound, too. And has a great phono stage, which is a rarity in integrated amps. The notion that SS amp is not warm, etc. is one of audio cliches, too. Tube vs SS divide isn't that cut & dry. There are many solid state amps out there that are warmer than many tube amps. With the kind of music you like, I think you'd be missing out if you didn't consider many excellent SS choices out there. Plus you have way less to worry about w/ SS: just keep the thing on all the time & just enjoy the music. No gassy tubes to worry about, etc., plus you don't have to worry about power delivery to your Linns at all, as well as most other speakers. With most tube integrateds, you have less options when it comes to matching speakers in the upgrade path.

dbowker
dbowker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: May 8 2007 - 6:37am

Do yourself a favor and try out the Krell 400xi--- it's warmish like tubes but has more guts and control than any tubed amp could have. I listen to vinyl about 70% of the time to about CDs about 30% and it sounds phenomenal all of the time. I have a big collection of old 80s punk too, so I think you'd be very happy. Great also for more refined stuff like jazz and classical of course.

I think it fits your budget, maybe new, definitely via Audiogon. Smallish and 200 watts of pure Class A- hard to beat that!

JackCrank
JackCrank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Feb 15 2008 - 1:44pm

Great advice all around, I definitely took the chance to do some great listening at singer the other day. Checked out the Krell, the new musical fidelity, the Luxman 505, and just for kicks the amazing Luxman 550. Bill from Singer told me the the Rogue stuff was awesome and he highly recommends it but my speakers are just a little inefficient to get the sound I want. I think at this point I'm totally hooked on the sound of the Luxman 505. It's just so, so frickin good. The new Musical Fidelity was awesome too and definitely appealed to my ear more than the krell but even it couldn't really outdo the luxman. This is only mildly unfortunate because it's $3500 and nowhere to be found on audiogon considering that it's a brand new unit... Blast.

Quote:
Do yourself a favor and try out the Krell 400xi--- it's warmish like tubes but has more guts and control than any tubed amp could have. I listen to vinyl about 70% of the time to about CDs about 30% and it sounds phenomenal all of the time. I have a big collection of old 80s punk too, so I think you'd be very happy. Great also for more refined stuff like jazz and classical of course.

I think it fits your budget, maybe new, definitely via Audiogon. Smallish and 200 watts of pure Class A- hard to beat that!

rabpaul
rabpaul's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Jan 6 2008 - 8:58pm

The Linn Classic is like $2000, Linn Kans like $500 new. Don't you see a mismatch here?
Your dad may be disappointed but I do believe you would do better if you gave the Kans a miss and spent the $2300 on new speakers and amp.
Check out the Totem Arro and find an SS amp that will go with it with the remaining budget. The Linn Classic may even do OK in the interim. I can almost guarantee that given the music you listen to this will be a far better combination.

linden518
linden518's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Dec 12 2007 - 5:34am

Yeah, I've been curious about the Luxman, too. Sounds like a solid amp. About your speakers being inefficient for Rogue Tempest... I kind of doubt that. The thing about doing the #s in your head and concluding some amp's not going to work: not really sound science. As I've said my amp delivers 28 wpc & my speakers are 86 dbs. Mismatch, right? Wrong. You never know unless you try.

Also, a common etiquette I learned was that if you auditioned the product you liked at a dealer's, it's usually best to give him business as he took the efforts to showing you the product. Took me a while to understand this because the rest of the consumer experience in this country works the other way: get the best price & there's absolutely no remorse attached to this... but high-end audio is somewhat of a cottage industry & people need their support to continue. SBS is as established as you get, though, when it comes to being an audio dealer, but if you find that killer Audiogon deal on the Luxman that you can't pass up, at least take a nice bottle of wine to the salesperson there (I forgot who gave me that excellent advice back when I was going through this...)

JackCrank
JackCrank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Feb 15 2008 - 1:44pm

Generally sound advice but the speakers are the Katans not the Kanns. The Katan's go for about 900 new and are the bookshelf speakers that Linn reccomends for use with the Classik. I'm definitely going to upgrade sometime in my future but I'm seeing a luxman in the seat of my current Linn.


Quote:
The Linn Classic is like $2000, Linn Kans like $500 new. Don't you see a mismatch here?
Your dad may be disappointed but I do believe you would do better if you gave the Kans a miss and spent the $2300 on new speakers and amp.
Check out the Totem Arro and find an SS amp that will go with it with the remaining budget. The Linn Classic may even do OK in the interim. I can almost guarantee that given the music you listen to this will be a far better combination.

Log in or register to post comments
-->
  • X