GM is a fucking POS company. They should have been allowed to shut down. For good.

I'm thinking maybe we should all just emulate GM and have a press conference and declare our "taxes paid, in full."

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I'm thinking maybe we should all just emulate GM and have a press conference and declare our "taxes paid, in full."

Very nice! We can show people of all walks of life walking by people of all walks of life declaring that we paid our taxes on time with no interest charged. Then we can pull our baseball bats out from behind our backs and pummel a new Camero.

You might be surprised by the variety of people who agree about letting the car companies sink or rise on their own.

I have a group of friends who are economists with the fed reserve here in Dallas They are all liberals and from other countries:
Spain, Belgium, France,Finland, Ireland and Argentina.

The Fin won the Nobel in2004. The Argentinian is ,of course, an expert in economies in crisis :-)
They are all liberals.
But, they believe in creative destruction and thought we shouldn't bail out the car cos. In general Govt. should stay out of business.

I asked how they reconcile this view with govt. education and health care. They answer that govt. spending for the social good is different than spending to prop up failing business.

It was an interesting conversation.

I was initially against the bail out for these companies, but have tempered that opinion.

Preamble:

With the economic downturn, tax revenue is down in Nevada this year, and the governor is adamant about not raising taxes.

OK, so cuts are in order.

One of the cuts is going to be the wholesale elimination of the University's College of Agriculture at the campus in Reno.

This is a hundred year old instituion that has significant ties to the agriculture community, trains people who tend to remain in the state, and has improved quality of life in Nevada (I admit, as a former Animal Science major that I have a bias.)

(There is also a likely land grab opportunity here, because people have left land to the college to use for breeding programs, etc....that will now potentially revert to non-university ownership and development away from rural space.)

Once this institution is eliminated, no economic upturn can bring it back.

The governor can eliminate in one signature something that a thousand-fold economic recovery cannot easily reconstruct.

So, I am opposed to this elimination based on future value and contribution. It's not that the school is 'too big to fail,' it's that we can't getit back once we make it disappear.

The same kind of goes for GM.

If we let it disappear, no amount of economic good fortune can return what would be lost.

I'm all in favor of good business modelling and not rewarding dumb ass practices, but there is infrastructure there that can benefit the country in the future.

At some point, I think America should also retain some undustry that actually builds stuff. Enough of the money handlers creating an economy by sucking out bits of money as they manipulate it and move it around. America is better than that. GM represents a small bit of the 'builder' heritage.

They were referring to the invisible hand of supply and demand. The government should leave it alone.

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The same kind of goes for GM.

If we let it disappear, no amount of economic good fortune can return what would be lost.

Sort of like comparing the Vatican during WWII to Islam today. Ford didn't ask for no money. They also made a profit. What does Ford get for being a productive company? And I don't feel sorry for Nevada. They have been ripping people off ever since gold was discovered there. So what if they lose a school. I never even heard of it until today. You're describing some worn out ag school on its last leg to begin with with General Motors. Sort of ironic.

<Quote> " At some point, I think America should also retain some undustry that actually builds stuff."

That's a very attractive idea to me too, Buddha, but I'm afraid we're a generation or two late to get anything like a majority to buy in to that sort of notion. To sell it, you'd need to fit it into a set of well focussed future goals for the country and the reasons achieving those goals would result in benefits for the citizenry. What's been going on in our educational system for a couple of generations has made that kind of approach incomprehensible to many. I'm afraid that we're dealing now with too many people who focus only on what they're entitled to, and what they don't want to see done, rather than what they might want to do and why.

I'm in agreement with you Buddha.
I was surprised that the economists were against the bailout which is why I asked them about education and health care.

I think it's great that Ford made it on it's own. They make some great cars.

GM quality has improved as well.
And it is probably good for us long term that we have at least several car cos. here.

It is sad to hear about the University closing.
A good educational system is so important to the long term health of the economy, society and culture. It is unfortunate that some find it hard to see the long term benefit.

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The same kind of goes for GM.

If we let it disappear, no amount of economic good fortune can return what would be lost.

Sort of like comparing the Vatican during WWII to Islam today. Ford didn't ask for no money. They also made a profit. What does Ford get for being a productive company? And I don't feel sorry for Nevada. They have been ripping people off ever since gold was discovered there. So what if they lose a school. I never even heard of it until today. You're describing some worn out ag school on its last leg to begin with with General Motors. Sort of ironic.

It was silver, Lamont. As in "The Silver State."

See? We haven't been paying enough attention to education for way two long.

You represent the country quite well, amigo. If you ain't heard of it, who gives a fuck?

What is the deal with the GM shares ?

What exactly is the MTLQQ listing that currently exists ? what will happen when this is relisted ? are these shares worth looking at or do they just go away ?

I had a feeling I got that wrong when I posted it.

Like the scene in Red Dawn when the captured Russian soldier kept spouting off about his rights under the Geneva Convention and Patrick Swayze yells in this face, "I NEVER HEARD OF IT!".

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What is the deal with the GM shares ?

This is a bizarre anomaly. They are the remnants of the old GM. They are still traded, yet there is nothing behind them. People are buying them! I have no clue why they still exist.

Thats what im trying to figure out

If the company is relsited do these shares have any value ?

My understanding is that they have no real world value as there is nothing to back them - no assets, no Goodwill, nothing.

They have value only to the extent that there remains those willing to buy them.

What I don't get is why they are allowed on the exchange.