I have a question for those who are willing and able to help ...
I just bought the new DVD/CD by Chris Botti. It
It's no wonder your finger was on the rewind buttton, Billy Kilson is a killer drummer, one of the best drummers on the scene today. Kilson manned the drum chair in the Dave Holland Quintet and Big Band for quite a few years before leaving to go on tour with Chris Botti. I guess Botti pays a whole lot better than Holland.
As for other great drummers on the scene today and who's greatness comes through on recordings I would check out:
Herlin Riley - formerly with Wynton Marsalis' group, he just freelances. He may have the best overall technique of any drummer that I've heard. This guy can play just about anything and play it great.
Joey Baron - the main backbeat the downtown NY scene. Baron is grace, class and style all rolled up into one complete package.
Speaking of class and style, how about the timeless and ageless Roy Haynes.
A few others worth checking out: Hamid Drake, Jack DeJohnette, Tony Williams, Jon Christensen and Al Foster.
Of course this is just the very tip of the iceberg, so to speak, and there are dozens of other great drummers who I've failed to mention but are still well worth hearing.
Don't know about paying, but Botti mentions during the introduction that he wanted to impress Sting, who offered him to be an opening act on his tour. Sting, like late mr Davis, believes drummers are the backbone of any band ... and Botti wanted to have the "bad ass" drummer. His words. :-)
Thank you, jazzfan. I'll start from the top. I see Herlin Riley has two albums to his name ... I'll do my homework on the Net (research the other guys) and hit the local CD store ASAP.
Offtopic, When Santana toured the Supernatural album, he used to go off stage and let the band members have "their 5 minutes". The drummer and bass player "kicked ass" (don't recall their names).Personally, I find bass and drums very interesting when players step out of the rhythm section and take the stage. Jaco Pastorius and Marcus Milles are my favorites. But, let's leave bass players for another thread. :-)
Killer drummer? Fair enough. Good description. :-)
Shelly Manne cut an album years ago called, "Sounds Unheard Of" that is an orgy of percussion with just a bit of guitar. It's a little hard to find, but still around and lots of fun. I haven't looked for it on disc, but will now that I think about it. If I find it, I'll update.
If you want to give your woofers a workout try Harry Nilson's "Jump Into The Fire". Great bass demo track.
Tracked it through AllMusic. Here's what they say:"In the early days of stereo, there were quite a few demonstration and sound effects records released that were designed to show consumers the wide variety of sounds that could be accurately captured on record. Most of those releases are quite dispensable and that includes this duet set by guitarist Jack Marshall and drummer Shelly Manne. On a dozen standards, Marshall's playing serves as interludes between the percussion displays of Manne; the liners give a full description of every device he hits. The music is fairly routine even if the sound is excellent for the period. It is of little surprise that this set has not been reissued yet on CD."
Got Roy Haynes' "Fountain of Youth". Made at the tender age of 79. And they say jazz clubs are bad for you ... I was on a lookout for "drummer's album", but I got distracted and bought Tomasz Stanko's "Lontano". However, I also have my eye/ear on new Jack DeJohnette album.
I briefly looked at my regular stops for the disc and couldn't find it. At least now I know why. It would appear I like it more than the AllMusic guy. Like that is surprising?
Somebody really should put that thing on disc.
The other day I was playing Red And Orange from John Abercrombie's Timeless album. I always thought Jack De Johnette was one of the best ever but when the person I was playing it for asked me "who are those two drummers?" I realized this LP is exactly what the thread starter was looking for. At times he does things that really do sound like two people playing.
Progress report: Got the Billy Kilson's B.K. Groove - "Pots & Pans". Very nice. Good description on AllMusic.
Check out Jimmy Chamberlin Complex's "Life Begins Again". Definitely a drummer's album from top to bottom. Although Jimmy is best known as a rock drummer, he grew up mastering jazz/big band/polyrhythms...he's an incredible drummer. And definitely more tasteful than a lot of other "bad ass" drummers out there. In other words, he plays a lot of over the top material...yet, somehow, it doesn't sound like he's showing off. As crazy as he gets, it's still always very elegant.
Quote:Check out Jimmy Chamberlin Complex's "Life Begins Again". Definitely a drummer's album from top to bottom. Although Jimmy is best known as a rock drummer, he grew up mastering jazz/big band/polyrhythms...he's an incredible drummer. And definitely more tasteful than a lot of other "bad ass" drummers out there. In other words, he plays a lot of over the top material...yet, somehow, it doesn't sound like he's showing off. As crazy as he gets, it's still always very elegant.
I'll try to hear this album. I don't mind the show off drummers, as long as they have something to show.
If you're looking for jazz albums with great drumming Ginger Baker, formerly of Cream has two albums out. The one that I have is called "Going Back Home" and was produced by Chip Stern. Formerly (?) of Stereophile.
And the other is the 1996 follow-up, "Falling Off the Roof" both by the Baker trio with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden and both terrific
And for the Cream fans, "Going Back Home's" final track clues us in on where Pressed Rat and Warthog went after they "closed down their shop." Apparently to "East Timor."
Rare Earth....Track 6 They do the Temp's Get Ready...with an incredible drum solo added. The recording is superb, crystal clear, transients superb. Off a recording done in the late 60's. Their rendition of GET READY was a hit for them if you recall. The CD has the entire thing, which wasn't played on radio. Great CD if still available.
The Rare Earth version of Get Ready is but a pale imitation of the original. The drum solo is nothing but a bunch of rudiments strung together. The album being a hit does nothing but show how bad the taste of the general public is. Get Ready is not in the same class as the other CD's and LP's mentioned in this thread. Yes, I have an original copy of the LP!
Quote:The Rare Earth version of Get Ready is but a pale imitation of the original. The drum solo is nothing but a bunch of rudiments strung together. The album being a hit does nothing but show how bad the taste of the general public is. Get Ready is not in the same class as the other CD's and LP's mentioned in this thread. Yes, I have an original copy of the LP!
You're going to hurt DUP's feelings. Rock'n roll fans have a very hard time when it comes to drums and drummers with respect to their jazz counterparts. For example, the great rock drummer mentioned above, Ginger Baker, is only a fair to good jazz drummer and I'm not just speaking about his "jazz sensiblities", I'm speaking about his overall drumming technique. The skill level required to be a great rock and roll drummer is well below that required to be a great jazz drummer.
Now this is not to say that there aren't some very skillful rock drummers out there but rather that taken as a whole the skill set of the average rock drummer is somewhat below that of the average jazz drummer. Mostly I blame heavy metal rock music for this problem, those drummers really suck, completely one dimensional.
When did Jazz get to be considered music? No begining, no middle, no end. Talk about a confragulation of mis matched tones and non harmonys. Or maybe it's the wrong wires, limiting the "pace", "rhythm", coherent line of sense...but somehow why is that used to define the characteristsic of wire, since none of them are elctrical in nature. Non electric is what jazz is, it just doesn't have any energy or purpose. Smoooooth Jazz, Cooooool Jazz, Traditional Jazz, jazzy jazz...jazz singers? Huh? Emotionaless, non engaging,disjointed. Sounds like a jzz hit.
Quote:When did Jazz get to be considered music? No begining, no middle, no end. Talk about a confragulation of mis matched tones and non harmonys. Or maybe it's the wrong wires, limiting the "pace", "rhythm", coherent line of sense...but somehow why is that used to define the characteristsic of wire, since none of them are elctrical in nature. Non electric is what jazz is, it just doesn't have any energy or purpose. Smoooooth Jazz, Cooooool Jazz, Traditional Jazz, jazzy jazz...jazz singers? Huh? Emotionaless, non engaging,disjointed. Sounds like a jzz hit.
Add another verse, a chorus and few bars of scat and you may have yourself the makings of a nice jazz vocal hit!! I'm imagining a fairly quick tempo, kinda hard bopish, with an Eddie Jefferson type vocal. Standard jazz quartet backup band, i.e. sax, piano, bass and drums.
Now get to work!!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned any Art Blakey albums. Blakey was an incredible drummer and just about anything from him will have great drumming on it, but for perhaps the most intense all around album, go with Indestructable. If you can hunt down the track he plays on with Grant Green and Sonny Clark, "It Ain't Necessarily So", give that a listen. Stupendous energy. It's on the two disc Grant Green set "Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark" but you might not like Green enough to buy the whole set for one track. I happen to, but tastes vary.
My sentiments exactly! I've been listening to more of the De Johnette selections in my collection. Holey bat dung Batman, the man sometimes has 3 legs and 4 arms!
Archie Bell and the Drells, tighten Up on them drums.....now THAT'S what I'm talking bout'. Tighten UP, more logical emotion than any jazz free for all mindless tuning up of instruments is what Jazz is to me what happens when the students of music didn't pay attention, but came out all retarded, and started playing that crap. They went in for music lessons, came out on permanent tuning up, named it Jazz. Doobie Doobie do, scat man
Have you ever bothered listening to something before rejecting it? Give the John Abercrombie Timeless CD or LP a listen first. I grew up dancing to Archie Bell and the Drells and other groups like them. My tastes advanced as my age and experience did. Some get stuck in a rut and never expand their horizons. If you played an instrument you would feel differently about Jazz musicians. Have you ever asked any of the blues musicians you idolize what they think of Jazz and those who play it? "Free your mind Quaid", er DUP!
They say one of the the greatest,if not the best, drummer ever lived(and still lives) is the drummer in late frank Zappa's band.Can't remember his name,sorry.Another good piece of drumming(of course this doeasn't make him the greatest drummer)is Dire Strait's drummer in "telegraph road".Just listen to the finale of this song.
To me, jazz is incoherent and spastic...I don't get it!!!! Blues tells stories and emotions, feeling, somehting to grab ya'. Jazz is a constant audio test or something, like trying to find a note they never find to make something flow with some sense of coherency. Jazz was invented to drive the rodents and insects out of the poor people's dwellings years ago, before there was RAID, there was JAZZ. Jazz is incoherent noise, nothing flows in any soothing way or anything to grab onto to. eeessshhhh. I have a bunch of Wes Montgomery crap, and lotsa other stuff, mindless stuff....I DON'T GET IT!!!!!
I'd rather listen to BlueGrass using a bango and wash board. Accordian music is more coherent than jazz. the POLKA umpa umpa bands make more sense than Jazz. Maybe Jazz is just to free flowing beyond my abiltys to latch onto something that makes any sense? Is all jazz like drug induced composing, or something? Wasn't heroin or sumptin' big in the jazz era when it was popular in Harlem when Harlem was a music mecca? Gene Autry makes more sense with his music than jazz. roy Rodgers singing is better than jazz. Christ, Alvin and the Chipmunks made more coherent stuff....I DON'T GET IT!!! JAZZ, and what does JAZZ mean anyway, what kind of wurd is dat?
Corky Lang with Leslie West...ever see Corky Lang live, as he whips Drum Stick to teh crowd, mostly the cheering girls. aims em and snaps em off the cymbals right where he wants, pretty slick, without missing a beat...
Come on DUP. I asked a question. I guess I'll have to ask again. Have you ever asked one of your blues idols what he thinks of Jazz? If not, why. Answer my questions please. I don't want to hear how saxophones relate to the NEC!
Most Blues dudes are influenced from the old timers like Muddy Waters, John Lee hooker,Eubert Sumlin, and older, I think some of the original Blues dudes, pre dated Jazz dudes. Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones (yes their ROOTS are in Blues) got it from Muddy Waters, and his generation of originals. Led Zeppelin's hit Whole Lotta Love is an old Blues tune, research it. Blues influenced more than Jazz ever will or did. Even Chuck Berry was Blues influenced, I'll ask my musican friend what he thinks of Jazz. Jimi Hendrix who changed the sound of the electric guitar, I don't think had Jazz influences, nope. Les Paul who pioneered the thing, what was his influences? Fender had other influnces, not jazz. blues baby, emotion, soulful story telling..Jazz, mindless ramblings of incoherent notes, a constant tuning of the instrument, never finding the correct tuning. AAAARRRGGGGGG. Blues made Rock and Roll, not jazz. Elvis had GOSPEL, not jazz upbringings. Don't tell me Gospel is jazz based either, hardly. Jazz was the hip hop rap crap of the 30's and 40's. ain't there some rap crap dude named Jazzy Jazz or sumptin', see where Jazz has brought us. Like classical, BLUES is forever
Another good piece of drumming(of course this doeasn't make him the greatest drummer)is Dire Strait's drummer in "telegraph road".Just listen to the finale of this song.
Another good piece of drumming(of course this doeasn't make him the greatest drummer)is Dire Strait's drummer in "telegraph road".Just listen to the finale of this song.
Just the other day, Yiangos. Just the other day. Are you following me now? I was listening to it on my iPod, when I took a walk.
I can't believe you are arguing about this? Blues or jazz? I only wish I had the time (money?) to hear all the great music, regardless of it's genre.We have annual Jazz festival here. Just four nights. The headliners are Joe Lovano Nonet, James Blood Ulmer and the Blood Blues Band feat. Vernon Reid, Pee Wee Elis Assembly and Wayne Shorter Quartet ...Jazz and blues go side by side ... good music is good music, don't put labels on it just to trash it. Or am I the new guy and I just don't get the unique humor you guys have?
Haven't listened to James Blood Ulmer before ... I am looking for his albums now.
Once again you have ignored the question. I didn't ask who influenced who. The word is that Jimi wanted to play Jazz! This is a Jazz oriented forum. Why do you insist on bringing your narrow minded attitude here. If you don't like Jazz so be it. A Jazz forum is hardly the place for your rantings against it.
Slight Off Topic: Went to see Wayne Shorter Quartet. Wayne Shorter, Danilo Perez, John Pattitucci, Brian Blade. Excellent Concert. Phenomenal musicians. All of them. But, I was blown away by Pattitucci and especially by Brian Blade. What a drummer!
A jazz forum is the place to call jazz not music. If I did it on a blues forum, there wouldn't be any response....DUH.
If you don't like jazz why are you here? How can you make any intelligent comments about something which you admit you don't like and obviously have no knowledge of?
Easy, just do it. Why is a "C" note played in Jazz, different than one played in "Blues". Since I do know the Blues one, I extrapolate. If jazz was any good, it woulda' been done in Blues. Since when does an opinion need to be based on knowledge? If opinons where formed based on knowledge, none of the politicans would be elected. If that was the case, why do you think Jazz is any good? Your opinion is based on what? That Blues is inferior to Jazz somehow? Impossible.
@ DUP ... Hey, I hear Britney Spears is getting a divorce. She'll be releasing new stuff any time now. You can go and bug pop fans. :-) I mean, if you want to cook things up, at least show some style and imagination. This is almost like trying to provoke someone with "yo momma" jokes, waiting to see what ticks him off ...Go listen to some blues ... ;-)
First of all a C note is a C note. If you knew anything about music from a musicians viewpoint you wouldn't make such stupid statements. I never said anything was good or bad. I merely questioned the opinion of someone who has a limited attitude about music. I have never said one kind of music is superior or inferior to another. The only thing you know about the blues is from listening. I know about them and other forms of music from actually playing them. That alone gives my opinion more credibility than yours. What instrument have you ever played and what kind of music did you play? Those who can play are not as narrow minded and blind to music that may be too intellectual for them. When you discuss things with people it gives you lots of credibility if you have some knowledge of the subject. Being ignorant of the subject tends to make people ignore your ignorant ravings. That's what I will do from now on with your comments.
Some of the greatest musicans had no education...they just did it!!! Many couldn't read music, they just played like no other. Since when are opinons based on knowledge? More credible opinon? That intelectual thing always pops up when talking of jazz. always winds up being more complex music than other stuff. Jazz is frivilous ramblings of incoherent mismatched tones that are not meant to be strung together. Sorta like trying to listen to a foreign language that makes no sense, when the pitch and tonae just shriek, like a drill into metal. Many musicans don't like certain types of music. That's why they do a particular type themselves. But i misused music in teh same sentence as jazz. Jazz is a test signal gone wrong. If it was any good I wouild like it. If Buddy Guy don't do it, it can't be any good.
Quote:A jazz forum is the place to call jazz not music. If I did it on a blues forum, there wouldn't be any response....DUH.
And i suppose you are here to put all jazz fans on the right track,right ?
Either teh Midnight train to Georgia, or Buddy Miles train. did Lionel Hampton have a train?
Not sure but Junior Wells has one.The "mystery train"