Dup,
SOME, s first, o second, m third, and, e last. You need to make that e wait for it's turn.

You don't understand Riley Martin words from outer space? I learned to spell on teh muther ship.

What does it mean to you to have a Stereophile Forum? Let the editors know!

I have been reading Stereophile magazine for at least 25 years on and off. In that time I have grown to appreciate the writing and respect the editorial decisions that come to define what is Stereophile magazine. Stereophile is a guide that can be counted on for a view into the audio industry that otherwise does not exist. Now that I have told you what I think about the magazine, let me say a few words about the forum.

Having a globally accessible Stereophile forum means that Stereophile readers have the opportunity to communicate with the Stereophile magazine writers and editors, manufacturers and other persons of a similar interest in audio and audio playback. Discussion participants hope to discuss technologies combined with manufacturing, which have been taken to a level of a high art. If you do not understand audio engineering and manufacturing as an art then pick up a copy of Stereophile magazine off the rack, spend time at Stereiophile.com perusing online reviews of the best audio gear in the world, come to these forums and listen in and then engage others in meaningful discussions. After spending some time online in the Stereophile forum and in reading the Stereophile magazine you will note that it is no longer only the ability to play back audio accurately, for many components come very close in measurement. One of the best places on the Internet to discuss the high art of audio recording and playback, Stereophile.com.

Writers will discuss the nuances of audio engineering from ceramic ball bearings to special coatings on interconnect wire. Platters that defy gravity as they float in the air yet are anchored to the center of the earth, and amplifiers that will test the wiring in your home. Speakers that are acoustically accurate and time aligned and take sound reproduction to previously unheard of levels and the only place to obtain industry standard measurements on those same speakers, Stereophile's own engineer John Atkinson.

The Stereophile forum was created for the free flow of information from the top down. There are areas for a manufacturers showcase, audio hardware, audio software, and monthly volume areas of discussion and others. The writers, editors and readership freely discuss the monthly magazine and industry so that everyone who would like to contribute may contribute to fully flushing out new products and concepts in a timely manner concurrent with the published magazine and the evolving industry. Needless argumentation regarding the technologies sets everyone back. Better still would be to allow others to discuss issues that they know more about or are interested in using the perspective they have. It makes everything more interesting. Then if you have additional useful information, which is not confrontational to the art be sure to share it.

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Stereophile magazine would not be solidly rooted in the hearts and minds of tens of thousands of readers around the world if they lacked the honesty and integrity displayed for decades in what has become a well known and established periodical. If you think that Stereophile magazine is published and distributed with an intent to mislead readers with regard to any product or technology then you should find another monthly magazine to read and it follows that you should find another forum to participate in. Other participants of the forum are not in the forum to hear your dismissive and dissenting view with regard to the periodical or the manner in which the technologies are covered. I am not asking or telling you that you cannot dissent but that you should NOT practice the art of dissent here in the Stereophile forum. Presenting overtly negative views over the use of a particular combination of wire, electronics components or "magical connectors" when you may only have an education as a potential buyer or end user engaged in turning knobs on the front piece of a device and not an engineer, manufacturer or scientist is really wasting everyones time. You may know little to nothing about audio engineering and no one person wants to hear your position. If you can find verifiable research to back up what you would like to state then post the link one time and let everyone else decide on their own what the technology's properties may be.

In the request that you keep argumentation to a minimum by another forum member your freedom of speech is not being abrogated, you are being asked to speak elsewhere. If you would like start your own blog and see if you draw a crowd, please do so perhaps writing negative comments about everything Sterophile is you calling. However, Stereophile does not owe you the right of dissent in their privately owned and operated forum. As I said the Stereophile forum is a private forum, not public.

Posters to the forum should not set out to manipulate or harm the readership that Stereophile has spent an exorbitant amount of capital and goodwill to develop for the benefit of the Stereophile writers, editors, advertisers, manufacturers and readers.

NOW DUP LEAVE THE MAGICAL CONNECTORS ALONE UNLESS YOU CAN BACK IT UP THAT THEY'RE JUNK!

Off Topic: Its a joke DUP...you can take a joke right. I know I can't make you go away and sometimes reading your stupid comments make me laugh. This is a positive thing for you bring a smile to my face. I work so hard all day just to momentarily look into the deep blue sky of high end audio and I come here to Stereophile to see you harassing the only hobby that I have. I've given up martial arts(five different arts), shooting(sold all my guns to stay in Silicon Valey for an extra six months to study Phillipino knife fighting seven days a week from three different guros), I'm too old for racing motorcycles(sold my 173MPH Suzuki GSXR 750), and sixteen speed Serotta bikes any more, and I never collected stamps. All I plan to have in the future is high end audio and video.

And seriously, some of those connectors are probably pretty good...I bet if you take a look you will see that you have one very similar on your Haffler or Van Altstine amp, they may even be better. I've never seen a Van Alstine up close but given the pictures Van Alstine almost reminds me of my old Acurus amp. A no nonsense no frills amp, that I won't bash like you do to every other product.

PS. I wrote this two days ago. I knew you COULD NOT keep from bashing components you know nothing about.

Bash Bash Bash. But I do know about them. They all seem to have the breakthrough of teh month, if you read they hype and buildup attached to them. Reviews and ads would make it seem like the previous $19K version was just this good, now with the biggest breakthrough this week in audio design, the new model for $27K IS the one, until of course the MK II version comes out. Then there is the issue of $20K pieces of magic wires, that will transform your audio world into something nevr experienced before, unless of course you get some other Smedricks version of cable magic....funny stuff. Last years' $80K TT is replaced with the latest $100K..of course, it's a world of difference. Yet some products keep chugging along for mortal prices, with an updated ckt once in awhile. They sell to mortals, at mortal prices, and sonically equal to any grossly overpriced componenet. And without the poor QC which allows poor reliability dumb idiosyncrisies, and some wired abstract voodo.

I would like to ask you something regarding the Legacy corporation. Do you think Legacy is also guilty of manufacturing, and then marketing products only to modify the product, remarket it and ask for a higher price from the public? You know, claiming to have a breakthrough that required the modification rather than killing the entire brand and coming out with new brand, which seems to be what upsets you. Do you expect manufacturers to eat the dollars spent in marketing the brand and product name every time they have a new product?

http://www.americansound.com/LegacyAudio.htm

It seems to me that Legacy has in fact done the same thing with their Focus and Legacy speakers. The only difference is that you've bought Legacy products so you're not going to readily bash them the way you do everything else. Note the following Legacy Focus advertisement. This seems like a quote directly from Legacy although the advertiser does not state so: "Not being the type to rest on our laurels, we

They don't modify it every 2 months, repairing DEFECTS in design. Latest incarnation is an incremental update as driver improve, they incorporate them. Latest version is"HD" incarnation. My previous Focus where curret for several years before they came out with 20/20. Now the entire line is updated to "HD" not magic wires but new DRIVERS. Things that matter. checkout teh magic wire ads from all them numerous companies. One in particluar gets Rodents, rivers, mountains, which ever they can update in teh ad dept. Legacy looks to do some actual design work for updates. Changing out a woofer with larger magnet structure seems like a real design change for improved sound. And the models don't disappear, they get incremental improvements. Legacy makes the best speakers available. Priced for mortals in the real of high end. Follow teh magic wire ads for a time, you'lll get a sense of the total BS involved.

Many things that you complain about, which other manufacturers build are also incremental updates. Some are even larger than incremental updates, they are complete systems.

I still cannot figure out how you managed to spend $15,000 on speakers when you hate high end audio so much. You found a comfortable level to invest at and anything above it is a waste of money to you....you have blue collar high end tastes, if there is such a thing.

HD. Now if that isn't a bunch of BS talking. How you are such a fool for Legacy products when there are equal and better I don't get it.

Legacy just asigned a dopey marketing name yupper, probably so they can sell into the upper end HT crowd. thre are some very pricey HT being installed in multi million houses. Fabio for instance..The Whispers where closer to $17,000 with TAX!!! Now that was a waste of alot of money, the state should come and at least dust them once in awhile. My listening all started with Dynaco A25 back in teh 70's, it has advanced over teh years. Legacy stuff compared to some extremely absurd priced speakers are CHEAP. Build quialty sonics are so far up the scale, it spoils one for anything else. I've heard speakers costing 4X that didn't do much more than Whispers. Bill D. hit it right, if he can do top end for cheap, that means the otehrs are really fleecing. The $45K Helix from Legacy has to be INCREDIBLE, never heard em, just seen em in person some years ago at teh Pa facilty open house, they are now back in Il. Saving my dimes for HELIX!!! Tri amped with a built in 4th amp for the sub. 6 AVA OmegaStar EX P500 Hafler, you heard of a wall of sound, ya needs the amps to drive em a wall of amps!! Cool. 12ga zip cord to make it all happen, Wire scammers have new "breakthroughs" every otehr month. Legacy holds onto a model for several years before updating with new drivers etc. There is a difference. Helix ain't changed in years, previous Whispers where at least 10+ years the same.

DUP, are the whispers still using bi-polar electrolytics in the crossover?

You're so crazy you're disarming. In any case I would prefer that you didn't continue to bash products in the Stereophile Forum. I come here to relax not to see you bash products or Stereophile team members. I am not alone in this either and I would rather not have a running argument regarding your Legacy speakers either. You can have it either way however.

I don't think much of the overall implementation of the Legacy Whispers, in spite of the fact that the review from Stereophile came off well. Way to many drivers for me. I note that not all of the tests were run by JA on the Legacy Whispers. I would have really liked to see the remainder of the tests run.

I've never seen the Whispers up close, they look great from where I sit, I've seen the pictures of yours and they remind me of Orions, which are a Full-range open-baffle loudspeakers. Are your speakers open baffle or is it just the way they look and they are not open baffle at all. I just read the full Stereophile review.

Orions
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_us.htm

If I were to spend $45,000 on speakers I would look at the Wilson Audio Maxx, Thiel CS7.2, mbl 101E Radialstrahler, Focal-JMlab Nova Utopia Be and Aerial Model 20T loudspeakers. That does not mean that I would immediately buy either of them.

I might do as I am planning to do now which is to make my own speakers for $10,000 to $14,000 using Focal drivers. If I were to spend the full $45k I could really hire out a ton of crossover work. The driver configuration for the speakers that I have drawn up plans for most closely follow the Wilson Audio Maxx, with cabinet technology borrowed from the Tad Model-1 from Pioneer, but the speakers don't look anything like either. I have already put in four months of work in research, engineering drawings, etc., and am nowhere near ready to start on the project...still learning electronics for the crossover, which I might not finish myself. At this rate it might take another year to do. I may have the active crossovers built for the speakers. When complete each stereo speaker set will have four drivers each and take four separate amplification circuits. I am looking the Theta Dreadnaught II for amplification.

I've read and subscribed to Stereophile back in teh days of Gordon Holt and his small tiny eractically published stuff. He eve had a review of Aphrodites Child album 666 reviewed by his music reviewer, suggested by ME!!! So i have been here longer, I supported SteroPhile longer, back in the old days, no magic wire ads, just some good reviews on stuff made for mortals, Dyna, McIntosh, audio Research, maybe even an AVA once in while? don't recaall exactly if he did an AVA unit back in teh late 60;s early 70's. Did Ar TT top quality $68 at Sound Reproduction in East Orange N.J. discounter stuff stacked to teh rrafters, cool place it was. Supplied me with all my Dynaco stuff Ar Advents had to be paid for at retail prices, they where price fixed!! Sam Goodys...

woofers are open, mids tweeters are in the black sealed area. If you read the design concept of Bill D. on his website, about Project Whisper, you see why and how he did what he did. Great speakers. Mine sound better than the store had only 200 or so watts per side, hardly enough for realistic levels...they can play with minimal watts, but like any other speaker, more watts more control, everything opens up, I've done it on the Focus, one amp then Bi amp just got better and better...now quad bi amp even more better, each amp works less, controls teh bass with detail mids never stop sounding live. 10,000 watts is not unreasonable for a pair of Helix!!! Just a few more AC lines brought in....aaaahhhh Watts!!! Like Homer Simpson, seeing his beer or food.....waaaaaaaaaats, into great speakers.....gives me chills......oh, that's the open window...no sun today

More dirvers move more air with no distortion..another Bill D. philosophy, he's right....and he places them to do certain acoustic things as far as room interactions read all about Bill D. www.legacyaudio.com there are some writeups under technicals

If i was spending big big big bucks on speakers, i ain't doing them myself, there is noway you'd ever get a cabinet or fit and finish like comapines that have teh equipment to do the woodworking, nor teh expertise in drivers etc. While sure, if a speaker sells at absurd $45K...I'm sure it's a big profit for the mfg...but how many hours and years went into the design, trial and error, to get it right. Legacy Helis comes after all teh 20+ years Bill D. did on teh cheaper stuff, so he surely learned, and it grew into the Helix beast, just liek other high priced stuff from Wilson, McIntosh now has some exotic stuff, at those prices, I'd buy from an establised speaker company, there is an expertise you could never have especially since it's your first, and you would invest tens of thousands of dollars in components, not me. I'm sure even teh big speaker makers like Wilson Legacy JBL have lotsa trial and errors, lotsa erros and ooops, before they release a finished product, I wouldn't risk it....lotsa science design in top end speakers, these ain't no Blose in a vinyl covered box at ckt city

Orion lke many others seem to think THEY can defy physics..after using Bill D stuff for over 10 yeras, his concepts are right, you can't. Read how he describes to move air at real levels it takes DRIVERS his line is great, trying to sound live is like fanning yourself with a guitar pick to cool off.

It is not a matter of who has been here longer Carl. Syphilis has been here a long time too and nobody wants it either.

Right On!

Quote:
Orion lke many others seem to think THEY can defy physics..after using Bill D stuff for over 10 yeras, his concepts are right, you can't. Read how he describes to move air at real levels it takes DRIVERS his line is great, trying to sound live is like fanning yourself with a guitar pick to cool off.

I think that the guy you are knocking NOW is THE Linkwitz of the Linkwitz-Riley Crossover. He is the guy who co-developed the Linkwitz-Riley Crossover and the Orion. I've got an e-mail in to him asking him that very question but I think by the evidence it is obvious.

http://www.rane.com/note160.html

If this is THE Linkwitz of the Linkwitz-Riley Crossover I'd dare say that he knows and has already forgotten an encyclopedia worth more about crossovers and speaker design than Billy D and all of them together at Legacy ever knew about audio. His Orion might be what Legacy copied... I will ask Mr. Linkwitz what year he made his open baffle speakers however and see what he says.

What do you know DUP...you were insulting a man who was part of the team who created the Linkwitz-Riley crossover, which is now used in nearly ever speaker made in the world.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications....ident%20Drivers

Not bashing nutin' honey. What does this designer think, i know what his designs sound like, he's RIGHT!!!! http://www.legacyaudio.com/engineer/comparisons-technology.pdf

You are a TARD. Five minutes ago you said he didn't know what he was doing.

Grow up DUP.

Dig it. Talking drivers, not crossovers. The Orions look driver challenged. Forcing small drivers to sound liflike is not good. From anyone's stuff. Blose trys to convince people, the tiny speaker fill a room with "lifelike" sound....not from what I hear on my BLOSE...yeah, got BLOSE and Legacy, different purposes different places. Lifelike needs drivers, just like mars needed women years ago. did they ever get that done? Maybe that's why we are going there? Mars is filled with woman? Just cover teh 3rd eye and it'll be fine.

Tard, I don't know what he's doing trying to build speakers based on a false idea, small drivers and lifelike sound, impossible. Let alone not enough watts. That concept ain't changed ever. I knew that when I was a kid, i started out with a pari of Dynaco A-25's, OK, in about 2 weeks, lacking went and added a pair of AR2aX's to that pr...OK, gives me more kick...Still not there, So I gets me the double Advent system tied into the previous stuff...yes, stacked on stacked.....So on each side I had 2 Lg Advents, 1 AR2ax 1 Dayna A-25, and to add some sparkle MicroAcoutis tweeter setup...Figuring out the wiring, phasing, keeping all teh drivers moving teh same way for same signal (use a battery tap and watch the drivers move, then you know polarity of internal wiring, for a given signal) I had to add an amp too, cus now we driving some drivers Dyna ST400 into the 4 Ohms or so was close to 300W RMS, now i was getting closer to lifelike SLAM.....Today older and wiser, Legacy keeps it LIVE!!! Drivers, WATTS, good powerful amps Today I also moved up to 4800W driving teh Legacys...I knew when I was 18 years old, drivers, watts, makes it happen, unless you like th esound of a clock radio, and consider yourself an experienced listener!!!! Go to several LIVE events, then come home and listen, if it don't sound as good or BETTER, with teh same slam and impact, you don't have it right!!! Ain't that what high end is all about?

Not everybody wants a speaker baffle with ten drivers in their house, four of them 15" in dia. Its gaudy DUP.

Take any boxed speaker with four 8" drivers, remove the box placing the speakers on a sheet of plywood with some wood veneer and four 15" drivers, you now have a dipole. No difference. The difference is in the execution.

And if I had to take being associated with you, with the way you carry on on this forum I would never buy Legacy speakers. You are a walking BILLBOARD of negative advertising for Legacy and Van Alstine. Until you figure that out you're hopeless. People come to this Forum to seek information on audio products and after being here for those five minutes they turn right around and leave. The less you say the better you, Legacy and the entire Stereophile Forum is.

I agree, you are correct. Sheets of plywood will look better in teh house rather than the works of art like Whispers. Actually my daft friend, my wife so liked th elooks of the Whispers, with the fine craftsmanship, the beautiful fit and finish, she requested I leave the grille OFF so the fabulous wood shows they are works of art. But then you did say you never seen em in person, which means you never heard em either. They are magnificent. Only thing better would be.....HELIX.....

Time to close this thread, I think, as it's strayed far from the original topic.