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Buddha
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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Also, would you like to explain your published experiences on the effect of crystals in the room ??

I would, but you would just call it jousting.

There is a tremendously large part to tweaking where some proponents will toe the line so long as they are told by others what to hear, but as soon as someone tells them to think for themselves, or goes some place new, they can't go there.

So, to continue jousting:

If you believe that there are magnetic properties 'hidden' in a CD or its label, if you consider the mass of the material that is magnetic, it is quite low.

The reason I mention that is with such a low magnetic mass, you can expect to see magnetization/demagnetization changes quite quickly.

Quickly enough that you, if you are of that persuasion, can leave the 'on deck' CD on your magnet getting ready while you listen to the current CD. You can also readily compare directionality of the treatment!

The subjectivists will likely toss off the connection between the mass one wished to magnetize or demagnetize and how long it would need to be treated as just another 'objective' observation intruding on their jollies, but for others, it shouldn't take all that long to investigate for themselves.

Also on the plus side for magnetization: With demagnetization, one will have to keep undertaking the process over time. With full magnetization treatment the effect, as you know, can be VERY long lasting - magnetization is better retained than demagnetization!

You can demonstrate this on your own at home with a magnet and a needle or screwdriver!

For those of us with open baffle speakers, a small piece of Blu Tak and access to the rear of your driver is all you need in order to try it out...for free!

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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The reason I mention that is with such a low magnetic mass, you can expect to see magnetization/demagnetization changes quite quickly.

The subjectivists will likely toss off the connection between the mass one wished to magnetize or demagnetize and how long it would need to be treated as just another 'objective' observation intruding on their jollies, but for others, it shouldn't take all that long to investigate for themselves.

Place an ice cube inside a cast iron Dutch Oven and place the pot on the counter. Place another ice cube inside a cast iron Dutch Oven and place the pot on an open burner on your stove. Compare the rate at which both ice cubes melt.

The small amount of ice doesn't begin to melt until the cast iron pot on the burner has warmed up first while the cube in the cool pot hasn't melted much at all in the same amount of time.

A small amount of magnetically permeable material contained within a larger mass won't be "quickly" magnetized due to the low mass of the former any more than an ice cube will melt faster than the cast iron pot can warm up.

More made up crap!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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This is going to really upset you Buddha but I would suggest that Geoff's Clever Little Clock is doing EXACTLY what your laser lights are doing, in the room, when they improve the sound. How is THAT for new ideas that go against the grain ??????

As they say, May, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

They don't work the same way.

Open your thinking box.

Your neurolinguistic programming is showing!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Clever Little Clock is On Topic!

Sorry to make matters on this thread more, uh, complicated, but the Clever Little Clock employs two (count 'em) magnets in its design!

For those unfamiliar, the Clever Little Clock is a battery-powered travel alarm clock modified and treated in a great number of ways (last count 13 steps). An important design feature of the Clever Little Clock is that each Clock is set for a different Time (uncorrelated) than the customer's actual local Time. So a Clock sent to Australia is set to a quite different Time from a Clock sent to Belgium, for example.

It can be demonstrated with relative ease that the Clever Little Clock has no affect on anything in the audio system, including house wiring, cables, cords, electronics, room acoustics or EMI/RFI. This is what makes the explanation of the Clock so difficult!

Audio AND video performance is improved by simply bringing the Clock into the house. DBTs are a breeze: when removing the Clock from the house the sound (or video) reverts to its previous "relatively degraded" state.

May Belt
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

>>> "There is a tremendously large part to tweaking where some proponents will toe the line so long as they are told by others what to hear, but as soon as someone tells them to think for themselves, or goes some place new, they can't go there." <<<

And you are lecturing ME on that subject when it is I who is trying to get people to think for themselves, to 'think out of the box' ???????????? To try to explain some of the phenomena concerning sound which many are experiencing (and describing).

We were using magnets to change the sound - over 25 years ago.
We were using lights to change the sound - over 25 years ago.
We were using chemicals to change the sound - over 25 years ago.
We were using colours to change the sound - over 25 years ago.
We were using clocks to change the sound - over 25 years ago.

>>> "You can also readily compare directionality of the treatment!" <<<

ABSOLUTELY - demonstrations were carried out in the UK some 20 years ago showing how you can 'treat' such as an LP (or, for that matter, a CD) in one direction and the sound would be better and 'treat' it in the opposite direction and the sound would be worse !!!!!!!!!!!!

To quote the Editor of Hi Fi Answers after two Hi Fi Shows.
>>> "Next door to us were our colleagues from New Hi Fi Sound. They came armed with numerous amps and speakers, and had begun the depressing task of trying to find a combination that would work acceptably. By the time they came into our room to witness Peter Belt at work, they were almost suicidal. When they'd witnessed what he had achieved for us, though, they asked politely if he would do the same next door. He agreed, and two hours later they were all smiles.
I can fairly say, I think, that together we made some of the best sounds at the show." <<<

Guess what ? One of the things Peter 'treated' were the lights in both of their demonstration rooms !!!!!! 22 years ago !!!!! And, 'treating' the lights in the adjacent bathrooms gave further similar improvements in the sound to the improvements gained from 'treating' the lights in the actual hotel demonstration rooms !!!

>>> "With full magnetization treatment the effect, as you know, can be VERY long lasting - magnetization is better retained than demagnetization!
You can demonstrate this on your own at home with a magnet and a needle or screwdriver!" <<<

I would not dream of 'talking down' in such a fundamental way to you, Buddha, or to anyone else !!!!! I can assure you, I know about magnetism !!!! Can we please raise the level ?

Regards,
May Belt.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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I would not dream of 'talking down' in such a fundamental way to you, Buddha, or to anyone else !!!!! I can assure you, I know about magnetism !!!! Can we please raise the level ?

No, he cannot, May. This whole exercise in word play is meant to mock you further and not to move the discussion forward. This is the same as Buddha's "three dust motes on the window sill" back in the "room treatment size" thread. Something he made up to say all tweaks are nonsense and only those who believe in nonsense believe in tweaks, so why don't you believe in my nonsense?

Buddha delights in talking down to people for whom he has no respect.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

May, read a few pages beginning here; http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...part=8&vc=1

with Buddha's post that begins ...


Quote:
Too small to be effective?

Not to be too confessional and all, but I've run into microdots that have had a huge impact on me!

Pay attention to Buddha's posts to this point; http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...art=15&vc=1

And to this post ...

Quote:

If I had some people post that they spent 200 bucks a pop for the motes, you'd be first in line to defend it from doubters.

That's what smells so bad around here.

You attack Ethan over his dubiosity with regard to the sonic benefit of a drilled out quarter glued to the wall of a room, but you won't go for dust motes.

What gives?

Maybe my motes need a soild endangered wood case to give them credibility.

Bullshit exists at both extremes, Jan. You are blind to one, but scream about the other.

I don't get it.

And then add this from the post above on this very page ...


Quote:
There is a tremendously large part to tweaking where some proponents will toe the line so long as they are told by others what to hear, but as soon as someone tells them to think for themselves, or goes some place new, they can't go there.

Do these all sound familiar?

Buddha only knows how to use one weapon, absurd ridicule from an absurd and ridiculous person. He hopes to suck you in by momentarily dropping his attitude, relying on your good nature, and then quickly resorts to form. That's why he becomes so flustered when someone catches him in his inconsistencies, inconsistencies which mount with every passing thread and every repeated piece of BS. That's why he makes up crap. When everything you do depends on made up crap you can only continue to make up more crap. That's what makes Buddha and Winer so dangerous.

Don't fall into this one, May.

geoffkait
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"Don't fall into this one, May."

Pretty sure she saw him comin' a mile away...

Buddha
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Just by having Vigne on ignore, I suspect we've raised the level!

Is he insisting you not talk about what you hear? ROTFLMAO!

Since some people seem to panic and fall mute when we try to talk about what we hear, how about we start with Ethan's claim that a recording can 'sound different' from play to play. So far, Ethan and I are the only ones who seem to have noted this sensation! (Or at least admitted to it.)

I find it fascinating and it is one of the reasons I think instantaneous DBT are so unsuitable for audiophile testing.

I think I've mentioned before about how we may attend to different aspects of the performance at different moments.

For a starter topic, it shouldn't outrage people overly much.

I wonder if for some people, some of these "controversial" tweaks allow them to have more similar listening experiences from moment to moment.

Watch out now, May. This part of the discussion may be an outrage to those nutjobs who have some code against actually discussing what we hear. Get ready for the equivalent of Geoff's picture, only with an "Ape has killed ape" chant and poo flinging!

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

I suspect she did too, geoff. May's quicker than most. But I though it might be instructive to point out just how Buddha operates. Not necessarily for May's benefit but for all the others watching tonight's episode. Kind of a "Greatest Hits" album that has the same beat and the same I-IV-V progression in the key of B flat in every song and then you realize why you stopped listening to this guy and why the "Greatest Hits" album was a waste of money too.

Too much of anything is still too much. And too much of Buddha's BS is always too much.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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Get ready for the equivalent of Geoff's picture, only with an "Ape has killed ape" chant and poo flinging!

Beware smiley faces, they are not your friend.

Yes, the old "But how can you not agree with my nonsense?" tact has been pointed out, so let's change the subject!


Quote:
Changing the Subject

Bob staggered into the house at two o'clock in the morning.

As he entered his bedroom, he found another man in bed with his wife.

Bob looked at his wife's lover and demanded, "Who in the hell is this guy, and what is he doing in bed with you?"

The wife responded, "Don't go changing the subject! Where in the hell have you been so late?"

Buddha
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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"Don't fall into this one, May."

Pretty sure she saw him comin' a mile away...

Wow, a glimpse of the Machina Dynamica factory!

And here I thought you got all your stuff at Target!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

One other thing about DBT I forgot to put in...

With instantaneous DBT, at the same time we 'hit the switch' to make to signal change, we also kind of 'hit the switch' and change, pretty quickly, how we were just listening.

Many times, I think the mental switch we hit with those instantaneous changes makes a bigger difference (at that moment) than some of the actual signal changes we are trying to identify!

And that's just one of the problems with instantaneous DBT. It doesn't mean the differences wouldn't be audible with a longer listening trial, it just means that there is more going on than having a 'static' listener audition changes. The whole process is more dynamic than instantaneous DBT aficionados would like to let on.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

C'mon Jan, don't leave out the hilarious stuff...


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On the plus side, I had a really good listening session last night. So good, in fact, that I sterilized and cleaned my Shop Vac and sucked up all the best sounding dust motes onto a piece of filter paper.

I then went over to my neighbor's house and ran the Shop Vac backwards to bring the motey goodness to his listening room, and, wouldn't ya knoew it, it worked in his room, too!

Now I have myself and an impartial noncommercial witness to the wonders of my dust motes. I have empiric evidence of the benefit of my tweak.

100 bucks, and I'll send you your own filter paper full of BS (Buddha's Specks) and you can enjoy the wonder of my BM (Buddha's Motes) in person.

No doubt about it, my BM (Buddha's Motes) is no BS (bullshit.)

RG

Buddha
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Yeah, that was a particularly good batch. Turns out the first batch is the sweetest.

So, I have this wireless 'weather station' that you can use to keep a device outdoors that tells your station indoors about the weather outside - all with no wire!

So, I put the pick up part in my listening room and the base in the nook. With my laser tweak, after it has been on in the room for about 12 mintes, the barometric pressure goes up a tidge. A 'measurable' tidge!

If I go and listen in the room without the laser in place, the barometric pressure goes down a tidge after a while - by breathing, we introduce water vapor which lowers the barometric pressure.

If I have the laser tweak turned on and go in and listen, the barometric pressure will still go up a (smaller) tidge!

I can measure one of the effects of my laser tweak, and it is in keeping with my hypothesis of allowing the air to be more efficiently 'packed' in the room and enhance the coupling of the speaker to the air to the ear.

I still don't know why some subjectivists are so opposed to trying to measure things!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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I still don't know why some subjectivists are so opposed to trying to measure things!


Easy - it will pop their balloons of delusion.

--Ethan

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


Quote:

Quote:
I still don't know why some subjectivists are so opposed to trying to measure things!


Easy - it will pop their balloons of delusion.

--Ethan

I don't think it's quite that.

If you look at their track record, they are in a hobby full of gear, but won't won't describe their listening rooms or what's in their kit. They seem to listen to tweaks, not systems.

Many refuse to talk about exactly which tweaks they use and what the effects they notice are, or aren't. There is obvious fear that if they don't properly hear one tweak, their entire philosophy is at risk. I think they are so in lock step that they are afraid they might not hear what the rest of their herd hears! They are afraid of their stories not matching up!

They bristled when you mentioned a recording sounding differently from play to play - did you notice that?

For your end of things, you seem to think the gear stays the same and we vary from listen to listen. That also seems threatening to them.

They are turning out to be less prone to talk about what they hear than any objectivist!

Think we'll ever get one to describe his or her system and which tweaks do or don't do what for them?

Impossible!

If someone can't discuss what they hear, no credibilty.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"But I though it might be instructive to point out just how Buddha operates. Not necessarily for May's benefit."

I've watched May in action from time to time on other audio forums. She's heard it all before. Compared to some folk elsewhere in cyberspace the locals here are little teddy bears.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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If someone can't discuss what they hear, no credibilty.

That's another of Buddha's fall back positions, never remember anything you've been told. Never understand anything that's been posted. Make up more crap.

This is truly a "Greatest Hits" thread and I remember all too well why I stopped listening to Buddha.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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I've watched May in action from time to time on other audio forums. She's heard it all before. Compared to some folk elsewhere in cyberspace the locals here are little teddy bears.

But I'd bet it's all the same, there's a Buddha on every forum. Repeat the same made up crap over and over and act like you're the only one who understands anything. Call people names and act like you're the one being reasonable.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


Quote:
"But I though it might be instructive to point out just how Buddha operates. Not necessarily for May's benefit."

I've watched May in action from time to time on other audio forums. She's heard it all before. Compared to some folk elsewhere in cyberspace the locals here are little teddy bears.

Yeah, big scary, being asked to talk about what you hear. Ooohhhh, outrageous!

May was kind of slow out of the gate this thread. She had some catching up to do to be able to claim to have already invented what was just invented!

No need to worry, fellas, May is adept at trying to turn things toward May's benefit! "Oh, you guys are talking about the opposite of demagnetizing? Well, I invented that. And demagnetizing! I invented the stuff with lights, to..."

Jan is on ignore, but is he screaming "Al Gore!" yet?

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Shhhhhhhh, don't nobody tell him. If he wants to know, he'll have to look for himself.

ROTFL!!!

geoffkait
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"But I'd bet it's all the same, there's a Buddha on every forum."

Now that you mention it, there does seem to be a pattern....

Exhibit A (from Zen and the Art of Debunkery)

<> Always refer to unorthodox statements as "claims" which are "touted" and to your own assertions as "facts" which are "stated."

<> Avoid examining the actual evidence. This allows you to say with impunity, "I have seen absolutely NO evidence to support such ridiculous claims!"

<> Characterize your opponents as "uncritical believers."

<> In any case, imply that proof precedes evidence. This will eliminate the possibility of initiating any meaningful process of investigation, particularly if no criteria of proof have yet been established for the phenomenon in question.

<> Practice debunkery-by-association. Lump together all phenomena popularly deemed paranormal and suggest that their proponents and researchers speak with a single voice.

<> Ridicule, ridicule, ridicule! It is far and away the single most chillingly effective weapon in the war against discovery and innovation.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Sounds more like The Inquisition than an audio forum!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


Quote:
they are in a hobby full of gear, but won't won't describe their listening rooms or what's in their kit.


Indeed. I've always been open about every aspect of my system, and how I use it and how I listen. This opens me up to ridicule such as "Your JBL speakers and Crown power amps are unrevealing crap, so no wonder you can't hear the benefit of replacement power cords" and so forth. Not that I have to apologize for my system! From my perspective, even more amusing is the vast majority of believers have no acoustic treatment, so what they're hearing is mostly room echo and its time-smearing influence on the playback. Talk about unrevealing...


Quote:
They are afraid of their stories not matching up!


Good point.


Quote:
They bristled when you mentioned a recording sounding differently from play to play - did you notice that?


Yes, I noticed.

If their hearing is so coarse and unresolving they can't tell that every playback sounds different, they have lost all credibility. So all they have left is to insult people smarter and more technically and musically educated than them.

--Ethan

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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If their hearing is so coarse and unresolving they can't tell that every playback sounds different, they have lost all credibility. So all they have left is to insult people smarter and more technically and musically educated than them.

It's humor time at the funny farm again!

ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!!!

Winer, you are one unfunny dude, but the shit you post is hyyyyyyyysterical!

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"This opens me up for ridicule of my JBLs and Crown power amps."

Woody Allen thinks he's an Indian so I guess it's OK if you think you have a high end system. :-)

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Tell you what Geoff - please post a complete list of all your equipment, plus a photo of the front and back of your listening room. Those two photos are all that's needed, with each showing as much of the space as possible. You already have no credibility with me, but if you're not willing to do that you'll have no credibility with anyone else here either.

--Ethan

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"Tell you what Geoff - please post a complete list of all your equipment, plus a photo of the front and back of your listening room."

Nathan, I'm not fallin' for that old trick. I don't open myself up for ridicule. Maybe if you say Pretty Please.

"You already have no credibility with me."

Gee Wizz, Nathan, that really hurts.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

geoff, here's the idea, you tell Winer about your system and he will at every opportunity make rude comments about it just as he does mine.

You'd think a grown man would have some decency and realize it's third grade bullshit to make fun of other people's stuff. Buuuuuuut nooooooot Wiiiiiiiiner! Third grade bullshit is about what he's up to now that he's in his 60's.

So tell him about your system and post pictures so you too can enjoy his sense of humor about all of this. You too can relive being an eight year old.

Or tell Mr. "I can't get facts straight" Buddha who'll take the information and twist it into something you won't recognize. Then he'll subject you to the same third grade BS that Winer does. What fun that should be, to see what boooooood"Ha!" turns your information into!

So, what's the matter with all you guys who won't tell these two the information they want?

You're smarter than they are, that's what's the matter.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


Quote:
I don't open myself up for ridicule.


So you admit your system is not very good and you'd be ridiculed for it?


Quote:
Maybe if you say Pretty Please.


You bet!

Pretty please?

Dude, if you want to pretend to be an audio expert who should be listened to, you need to establish some street cred. So here's your big chance. Not just a gear list, but photos of your listening space too. Else you go on ignore with the other buffoons, and then we'll all know for certain that you're a poseur.

Every serious audio reviewer includes a list of equipment, and the good ones also have room treatment and list that too.

--Ethan

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Ethan, even if geoff does supply images I think you'll be disappointed. Any gear in the pictures will be obscured by rows of clocks (all showing a different time) and jars of pebbles. As anyone would know, if one jar of pebbles and one clock can make an improvement then a hundred of each must be two hundred times better! The obscured gear could be just a Sanyo radio/cassette player but with the clock and pebbly goodness it would sound to geoff like he was in row three at the Metropolitan! Gear is irrelevant, its the clocks and pebbles that do the work

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Speaking of Ignore, I envision two parallel forums here in the near future. For all I know we're already there. One forum with posts by no-talent slackers who talk only to each other because nobody else sees what they write, and the other with all the rest of us.

--Ethan

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

FC, I'll bet you've never heard of Jimmy Hughes or England's HIFi Answers.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Yep, soon you all will only be listening to those who already agree with you and are too damn lazy to think. Just like them Republicans and their Rushbo leader who doesn't want to move forward from the 1980's. No dissent, no worries, it's a wonderful life to be a deaf partisan in a dead party.

ROTFLMAO!!! at you guys!!!!

You won't see us but we'll see you and we'll just keep on reminding everyone just how out of touch you really are.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Jan, just a correction.
I don't think Jimmy Hughes writes for Hi Fi News. He used to write for Hi Fi Answers and Audiophile and,I think, he may write for Hi Fi World occasionally.
Regards,
May Belt.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Thanks, May, I caught that myself after a moment and made the correction above. It's been a while since any of the decent British mags have sold here in Dallas. We get What HiFi and HiFi News now that they have become much less of a resource than they had been. After John Crabbe left the magazine just went to pieces.

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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

>>> "No need to worry, fellas, May is adept at trying to turn things toward May's benefit! "Oh, you guys are talking about the opposite of demagnetizing? Well, I invented that. And demagnetizing! I invented the stuff with lights, to..." <<<

You are on the wrong track on that one as well Buddha. SERIOUSLY on the wrong track with your attempt to belittle me, using mockery. Your attempt was what we call in Yorkshire, an attempt to take someone 'down a peg or two'. Which, Jan, I would suggest was also the purpose of Buddha referring to "three dust motes on the window sill" - as a belittling technique. Yes, Jan, I have seen most of them !!

Buddha, you DON'T know all of those things we discovered going back these past 25 years (and STILL continue doing) because all the early articles written about them by audio journalists - one after the other after the other after the other - are in Hi Fi magazines printed before the Internet was active. So, are not archived and available to read on the Internet. And, if many of those audio magazines have followed the way of so many other audio magazines and are no longer in existence, then they are gone for good !!

I do not describe such investigations of ours to "turn things around to my benefit" I do it to explain HOW, when I read descriptions of other people's experiences, I can recognise what they are experiencing, because WE (Peter and I) AND others have had similar experiences doing similar things.

THAT is why I often respond to Ethan's dismissal of so many of the things reported as "bullshit". I can recognise what other people have experienced and know it is not 'bullshit'.

If you want to know of the investigative work Peter did in listening to different cables and wires and different metals and different insulation materials - read Martin Colloms 'Cable Controversy' in Hi Fi News 1984 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES - 25 years ago !!!!!!!!!! If you want to know of the investigative work Peter did with colours read Christopher Breunig (Musical editor of Hi Fi News) in Hi Fi News 1988 AND read Laszlo Darvas (Editor of the Hungarian Hi FI Magazine) confirming Peter's work after getting a Hungarian CD manufacturer to do him 10 identical (musicwise) CDs but with the identical printing on the label side in 10 separate colours. Laszlo and others were able to grade each colour according to the 'sound' !!!!

I have already quoted the editor of Hi Fi Answer from 1987!!!!! When Peter was 'treating' Hi Fi Show demonstration rooms by 'treating' the lights, by 'treating' the pipes, by 'treating' the telephone, the chairs, the carpets, the windows, the wiring, the mirrors, the pictures on the walls, the curtains, and so on. !!!!!!!!!!!!! As well as 'treating' the discs being played. So, when I recognise the descriptions of the improvements from people 'treating' the LABEL side of CDs, the labels of LPs, with chemicals (Nordost), from colouring the edge of CDs (John Atkinson and others), with magnets (You), with demagnetising (Michael Fremer and others) with freezing (Ed Meitner, Robert Harley, John Atkinson and others), with aiming a hair dryer containing tourmaline balls at CDs and gaining improvements in the sound (various reports on Audio Asylum) - believe me - I KNOW what they are experiencing. I HAVE been there !!!

Jean Hiraga (Editor of the French magazine Revue du son) discovered that different cables and wires sounded different BEFORE we did. Our own experiences merely confirmed what he had found. Ivor Tiefenbrum discovered that passive speakers in the room had an adverse effect on the sound from the actual speakers being played BEFORE us. But, in investigating Ivor's claims, we discovered that although his observation was correct, the explanation he put forward was not. And, it was THAT discovery which started us on the path we have been along these past 28 years !!!

And, on the subject of Magnets and Batteries !!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T get me started !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will tell another true story, concerning events resulting from our investigations of Ivor's claims. In the early 1980s, Bob Stuart of Meridian reported that the sound from his Meridian CD player improved after he had stood it on a carpet tile. The explanation he put forward was that it must be 'something to do with vibrations'. We were already aware that any improvement in the sound would have depended on whether the carpet tile was made from wool or from such as acrylic (a chemical mixture) - even though BOTH would have affected any vibrations the same !!! So, Peter got one of the stiff but thin clear plastic vinyl record sleeves, cut it down two sides, opened it out making a large flat plastic mat. He permanently polarised the plastic mat and marked arrows on the mat indicating which direction the mat should be placed underneath a CD player. The instructions were that you stood the CD player on the plastic mat with the arrows pointing towards the front of the CD player. This position would give you the best sound. Now, if you slid the mat around, still under the CD player, but with the arrows pointing to the rear of the CD player, the sound would be worse !!! Showing that any explanation to do with vibrations would not be valid. The SAME mat was underneath the SAME CD player at ALL times, so any 'vibration effect' from the mat would be the SAME. But, depending on which direction the mat was positioned, the sound could be better or worse, completely at will. A few of these mats were made and sent to various UK audio reviewers. One reviewer, Jonathan Kettle, finally, in 1985, mentioned receiving this mat from Peter Belt - in a flippant, dismissive article called "Beyond the Fringe" where Jonathan listed many things which he regarded as "Beyond the Fringe" !!! Jonathan admitted that he "had not bothered to try it as he could not understand how it could possibly work"!! Now, where have I heard a sentence like that before ????

So, Buddha, if in 2009, I suddenly read of someone, somewhere 'hearing' the sound change when doing something with a polarised object, then, yes, I WILL say "Oh yes, I understand what they are hearing." Because I WILL understand. We WERE doing it back in 1985 !!!!!!!
We did not discover 'cables sounding different' - our own investigations just confirmed Jean Hiraga's findings. But, and this is the important thing - if something is THERE to be discovered, then it will be discovered at some time, by someone.
We did not discover that passive speakers had an adverse effect on the sound coming from speakers being played - Ivor discovered that - but what WE subsequently discovered was THERE to be discovered, by someone, at some time !!!
When we were making discoveries regarding freezing in the mid 1980s, we had no idea that Ed Meitner in Canada was simultaneously making similar discoveries with cryogenic freezing. As I say, if something is THERE to be discovered, it will be discovered at some time, by someone.
We DID discover, way back in the early 1980s, that chemicals have an effect on the sound so, when I hear of Dieter Ennemoser's C37 lacquer, Sonus Faber using a lacquer on their loudspeaker cabinets which they describe as 'friendly to audio', Nordosts's ECO 3 chemical - I DO understand what they are hearing. As I say, if it is THERE to be discovered, it will be discovered at some time, by someone.

Just because YOU haven't discovered it yet, does NOT mean that it is not there, waiting !!!

Going back 100 years. The GERMS had ALWAYS been there, in the air, waiting to be discovered !!! No NEW science - just a better understanding of how Nature works !!

Back to the great wars (the Battle of Waterloo and the Crimean war). When if the wounded soldiers had had to be left on the battle fields and not brought in early to the field hospitals, if maggots had got into their wounds and eaten the decaying flesh, they stood a better chance of survival than some of the soldiers who had been brought into the field hospitals straight away. The Doctors and Surgeons believed that was merely because the maggots had eaten the decaying flesh and therefore it was left clean and free from infection. What the Doctors and Surgeons did not know was that all the time the maggots were eating the decaying flesh, they SECRETED an anti-bacterial chemical !! But, the maggots HAD ALWAYS secreted anti-bacterial chemicals when eating decaying flesh. That fact was just there, waiting to be discovered - but not until the mid 1950s !! No NEW science - just a better understanding of how Nature works !!

Just imagine what the reaction would have been from the Doctors and Surgeons, if someone, 100 years ago, had discovered that fact, even by chance, and prepared a "Cream" to apply to open wounds, just imagine the ridicule if that 'someone' had suggested that you can do what the maggots had been doing - but with a Cream !!!!!!!!

As I say. No NEW science - just a better understanding of how Nature works.

Regards,
May Belt.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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As I say. No NEW science - just a better understanding of how Nature works.

Coooooool!

geoffkait
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

"Pretty please?

Dude, if you want to pretend to be an audio expert who should be listened to, you need to establish some street cred. So here's your big chance. Not just a gear list, but photos of your listening space too. Else you go on ignore with the other buffoons, and then we'll all know for certain that you're a poseur."

Nathan, you really need to get out more. You're showing definite symptoms of dis-ease.

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Hey, FC, how's them flawed listening tests comin'? Any revelations yet?

Anything yet?

Geez, guy, how long's it take you to listen to a couple of $2 CD's?

May Belt
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Quote by Ethan from Re: Next up: The Fair Doctrine Act thread

>>> "They get so caught up in back slapping each other and telling one and all how clever they are that they do not develop any serious debate or argument skills.

Sort of like Jan and May and KBK, eh?" <<<

The belittling can only get worse, Jan !!! OR, has it got worse already ?????

To quote Ethan from an earlier posting.
>>> "I always knew my hearing and musical acuity are far better than so many of the non-musician non-engineer plebian pretenders who post to this forum. I don't have to name them. We all know who they are - the no-talent hacks with nary an accomplishment between them but they express strong opinions on music and audio anyway. Take that you cretins. My listening skills surpass all of you put together." <<<

Calling people (whoever it was Ethan was referring to) "Cretins" goes way beyond any 'cut and thrust' of a discussion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
May Belt.

Benonymous
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

I've got a feeling I might have to operate the

geoffkait
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Thanks for taking the time to perform the comparison. I'd be interested to know your technique for treating the CD. Also, some CDs respond better than others, so you might try a few other CDs, esp. ones you are very familiar with to see if you can hear any differences.

Can I suggest this technique - subject the CD to only 1-2 seconds of the demagnetization on one side only, using circular motion, and take the demag device well away from the CD before releasing the ON button.

"If at first you don't succeed, try try again." - old audiophile proverb

Jan Vigne
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After three alternate listens I can only report that I perceived no difference in the reproduction from the treated and untreated CD's.

You could have knocked me over with a bulk tape eraser!

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Yes, May, when you finally realize you're trying to discuss something with an eight year old, you have Winer figured out. I suspect there are bathroom stalls somewhere that have "Sort of like Jan and May and KBK, eh?" scrawled on their doors. Winer does not not respond to any form of criticism in an adult manner.

May, have you ever known a couple where you feel the wife must be a Saint for putting up with the husband's constant BS?

Buddha
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing

Still can't talk about the actual topic, eh?

Fresh Clip took the time to conduct an experiment - for himself, and talks freely about his experience. He noticed no difference between trials.

Ethan has posted about how he does notice differences from listen to listen. So have I.

May comes to feign indignancy, but can't seem to get on topic and describe what she does and doesn't hear and doesn't even bother to try the tweaks that get mentioned. Vigne refuses, as well.

What's wrong with you people?

All you can do is find a thread to spread manure through without once talking about the things you do or don't hear!

Algorhythm: Find thread that mentions a subjective tweak. Blindly defend all subjective tweaks, and imply that you are like a famous scientist. Refuse to discuss trials and never ever mention any trials that didn't improve things. Call everyone who disagrees with you names, and remember to never talk about actual listening experiences...repeat.

Do you guys even need to play music, or do you just sit in the presence of these tweaks?

Come on. Contribute!'

Can even one of the three heads of Cerberus here do that?

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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Come on. Contribute!'

'Scuse me!

Even if most of us did provide fodder for your mistake mill, you wouldn't see it. One side has placed everyone who disagrees even in the slightest on permanent "ignore".

Seems to me you really don't want to discuss anything, you just want something to turn around on its ear without ever hearing any response.

But, then, that's the logic you guys use as an operational guide. Can't hear it, didn't want to look for it, no one would dare disagree with me, so it can't exist.

C'mon, strap on a pair and take everyone off "ignore" so you can see what's being posted!

What are you afraid of?

Jan Vigne
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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OR, has it got worse already ?????

Ya'know what, May? Winer is a very unfunny guy who constantly does things that are hyyyyyysterical in their total hyyyyyyypocrisy. Like producing a soft porn video and then claiming he supports abused women. Or saying he'd be glad to measure something once he's been convinced it's worth his time because without looking he already knows it doesn't exist.

The real hypocrisy is one side doesn't want to hear anyone with any opinion that isn't an echo of their own so they put us on "ignore". They never see or hear anything that doesn't agree with their own thoughts. Then they sit there and insult us with no fear of ever seeing a response. Here in the States, that's called right wing nut talking heads radio. And most of those guys want you to believe they are liberals! Funny stuff, don't you think?

But the topper has to be Winer chooses to insult you and me on a thread where neither of us have contributed a word. And what's that thread about? Fairness of opinion - presenting both sides of an argument and addressing those who disagree - in public forums!

Figures, eh?

ethanwiner
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Re: CD DeMagnetizing


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May comes to feign indignancy, but can't seem to get on topic and describe what she does and doesn't hear and doesn't even bother to try the tweaks that get mentioned. Vigne refuses, as well. What's wrong with you people?


You forgot to mention that Geoff Kait refuses to describe his hi-fi system for fear of ridicule.

The emperor's clothes are now in tatters.

Science: 10
Believers: 0

--Ethan

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