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JIMV
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Cable and power cord sound...a journey

I have been following a lot of threads on issues where science seems to fly in the face of experience. I have also posted a good bit about cable and power cord changes in my modest system. I am not any sort of a scientist and cannot tell the BS from the ambrosia when folk get into those areas. I am a pretty good listener of my own gear and the music I like and know.

I began a complete system change out about a year ago. My last serious system change was in the middle 1990's and once I settle into a sound I like, I tend to keep it for a long time. I had a Jolida integrated amp, An Adcom GDF 750 CD player, Maggie MG speakers, Transparent link 100 interconect and a Tara Labs set of speaker wires. Power was through a Monster 2500 box. I retired and moved across country (tax beneits) and into a new, smaller home. Sound in the new location was not as I recalled but still OK. Then my amp began to have problems. Istead of playing with the old Amp, I decided to build the next decades system. I bought a PrimaLuna Dialog II from Upscale Audio and was amazed again how much better it sounded in my system BUT, it did not play well with my speakers. I shifted the Maggies to my Video system and brokeout an ancient set of barely used Energy C2 Coniseaur and bought a set of stands. Again I was amazed how good my decade old CD and even older speakers sounded with the PrimaLuna.

I decided to invest a vast sum, about $30, in a tweak, one of the new HiFi fuses for the amp. While I didn't expect any change at all, I was surprised to hear sounds that had never been apparent on some old and well known CD's. Something had happened but I could not tell exactly what I was now hearing.

I read a lot of the comment on power cables here and decided to try a sale cable from PS audio. I frankly bought into the argument from many that there should be no change. The problem was, there was a change. Triangles and cymbles began to sound metalic and not ceramic. Those unidentified thumps I heard became the sound of fingers on wood as the musician stroked the guitar. I was so surprised I bought another power cable for the CD player (with lesser change).

Ok, now I was settled in and ready for a break in changes BUT, while playing on the internet, I found a Benchmark DAC1 on auction on Ebay. I bid and won the thing. It was old but still 5 years newer than my CD player. I set it up with a Phillips DVD player and the sound was worse than my old Adcom. I changed to a 15 year old Optimus portable CD player with digital out (part of an old Audio Alchemy rig) and that sounded at least as good as my old Adcom. I contacted Benchmark and found they could update my DAC1 to current standards. (great compay to deal with). Off it went and 2 weeks later it was back, in a new box and looking brand new. I set it up and found myself playing my old CD's again, some for the first time in years. As I was retiring the old Adcom, I took out my old Transparent interconnects. For fun, I traded these 10 year old cables for my new Kimber PBJ s and again was surprised.

I have a CD of quasi celtic music. Once cut has a series of women join into the song one by one. The Kimber cable played them beautifully but all sort of in the same foot or so of soundstage. The old Transparent cable plugged each singer in a specific location and spread that stage wider and deeper. In addition, my highs where more clear.

I really did not expect this and rememberd reading an advert from Transparent about a cable trade in/up program they were running. I E-mailed them and was offered a great deal and directed to a local dealer. off I went and yesterday my new Transparent cable arrived.

Folks, I simply cannot buy the argument that cables are all the same or do little. Right out of the box my MusicLink plus did some amazing things. First, I listen nearfield and am used to the sondstage being pretty much limited to between the speakers. Today it extends out about a foot beyond the speakers. Next the same singers n the same CD are planted in space. Last, the highs are very clear. Any residual edge or grain was simply gone.

Now I want a CD transport...anyone know anything about a Rotel 1070?

dcstep
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

If you want to know about a Rotel CDP, then you'd get better results putting that in the heading and asking the question earlier in the post. This thread may get a lot of action, but I'm wondering how much good CDP information will come forth.

Dave

Jan Vigne
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

It's a journey, Dave. The word's right there in tne heading. You'll have to travel some to get to the question. Pack a lunch.

ncdrawl
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey


Quote:
Folks, I simply cannot buy the argument that cables are all the same or do little.

no one expects you to. Just dont expect anyone else to feel the same way. I formed my own conclusions using diffmaker, null tests, and things of that nature(I have a recording studio with pretty much any sound tool that I need)..my experience was that once I saw the facts in front of my eyes(and ears ),ideas that I had about wire(such as thinking they have an enormous/or any impact) and metal boxes vanished.

JIMV
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

I guess we simply differ. I put my faith in what I hear and you in what you test (if I understand you correctly). If what I hear differs from what a test reveals, I still go with what I hear. I just figure the test is flawed in a way I don't understand.

Have you ever seen a ghost? Most folk say such things do not exist. Tests don't show them and they cannot be produced on demand BUT, folk who have seen one just might disagree.

One can only test for what one understands. I know I hear differences in cables. I have no idea how to test for that change.

KBK
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey


Quote:
I guess we simply differ. I put my faith in what I hear and you in what you test (if I understand you correctly). If what I hear differs from what a test reveals, I still go with what I hear. I just figure the test is flawed in a way I don't understand.

Have you ever seen a ghost? Most folk say such things do not exist. Tests don't show them and they cannot be produced on demand BUT, folk who have seen one just might disagree.

One can only test for what one understands. I know I hear differences in cables. I have no idea how to test for that change.

The facts are that if you try to stretch yourself and put yourself at emotional or 'social group' risk and ask every person you run into if they've had a paranormal experience via explaining your own, sharing, etc... ie, an experience of some sort that does not fit the extant physical model,'science'....you will find that well over 95% of the people in the world absolutely HAVE HAD at least one.

Or more, for most people.

So much for 'science' and 'hard reality' explaining all that is out there.

That's the universe knocking on your door telling you to wake the fuck up.

lwhitefl
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

Like many audio enthusiasts I hadn't paid much attention to building a strong audio system foundation. That is until I attended a HiFi+ setup and tuning seminar at RMAF 2008. Roy Gregory (HiFi+) very clearly demonstrated how paying attention to electrical power conditioning; resonance control of electrical & mechanical vibration; and consistent power, interconnect, and speaker cabling (same manufacturer) pays big dividends in audio playback quality. RG told the group until we carefully address these areas, we haven't really heard our current audio system.

Now that I've addressed my audio system foundation I hear a profound improvement in articulation, soundstage width & depth, instrumental imaging, and impact.

Buddha
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey


Quote:
I guess we simply differ. I put my faith in what I hear and you in what you test (if I understand you correctly). If what I hear differs from what a test reveals, I still go with what I hear. I just figure the test is flawed in a way I don't understand.

Have you ever seen a ghost? Most folk say such things do not exist. Tests don't show them and they cannot be produced on demand BUT, folk who have seen one just might disagree.

One can only test for what one understands. I know I hear differences in cables. I have no idea how to test for that change.

Hey, man. We may disagree on politics, but we agree about the primacy of listening.

If we ever get to hang out, I have a GREAT ghost story for ya, too.

Cheers.

ncdrawl
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

I am a member of SPARS Paranormal, an affiliate of TAPS(The Atlantic Paranormal Society, the group that the show "Ghosthunters" is based around) , I am of course , one of the skeptics on the team. Interesting stuff, to be sure. Grant and Jason from TAPS are good dudes.


Quote:

Quote:
I guess we simply differ. I put my faith in what I hear and you in what you test (if I understand you correctly). If what I hear differs from what a test reveals, I still go with what I hear. I just figure the test is flawed in a way I don't understand.

Have you ever seen a ghost? Most folk say such things do not exist. Tests don't show them and they cannot be produced on demand BUT, folk who have seen one just might disagree.

One can only test for what one understands. I know I hear differences in cables. I have no idea how to test for that change.

Hey, man. We may disagree on politics, but we agree about the primacy of listening.

If we ever get to hang out, I have a GREAT ghost story for ya, too.

Cheers.

commsysman
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey

The fuses in the DC power supply rails of a power amp definitely can make a different in the sound quality. The fuse on the AC power cord should not be an issue. I wonder which one you were talking about.

Understanding the nature of the fuse makes it quite apparent why this is so. It is a non-linear resistance. At low temperatures its resistance is insignificant, but as the current rises, so does its resistance; at a certain point, its resistance gets so high that it overheats and melts.

I first ran into this about 30 years ago when I purchased a certain amp rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms. The fuses on the DC power supply rails were only 3 amperes. Some math will show that these fuses were getting pretty hot and lowering the DC voltage to the output stage during large signal events, creating distortion. Peak currents to produce 80 watts would have exceeded 3 amperes (4.5 peak amperes at 80 watts**). Changing the fuses to 6 amperes resulted in a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

Obviously, the fuse size is a compromise between protecting the output transistors and compromising the sound quality.

**(Vout for 80 watts into an 8 ohm load = 25.3Vrms or 36Vpeak; which would produce 4.5 peak amperes through the speaker alone...exclusive of other circuit currents)

KBK
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Re: Cable and power cord sound...a journey


Quote:
I am a member of SPARS Paranormal, an affiliate of TAPS(The Atlantic Paranormal Society, the group that the show "Ghosthunters" is based around) , I am of course , one of the skeptics on the team. Interesting stuff, to be sure. Grant and Jason from TAPS are good dudes.


Quote:

Quote:
I guess we simply differ. I put my faith in what I hear and you in what you test (if I understand you correctly). If what I hear differs from what a test reveals, I still go with what I hear. I just figure the test is flawed in a way I don't understand.

Have you ever seen a ghost? Most folk say such things do not exist. Tests don't show them and they cannot be produced on demand BUT, folk who have seen one just might disagree.

One can only test for what one understands. I know I hear differences in cables. I have no idea how to test for that change.

Hey, man. We may disagree on politics, but we agree about the primacy of listening.

If we ever get to hang out, I have a GREAT ghost story for ya, too.

Cheers.

The more we understand about dimensional realities, the more we have come to the conclusion that the considerations surrounding so-called 3-d reality (linear time, gravity-what you see, etc) are based on group consensus and there is a definite aspect of personal effort involved in that determination that is local to that person.

Ie, you won't see/know it if you don't believe and you will see it/know if you do believe. This would be quite the catch 22 for the skeptics - proofs, etc.

This also plays out in the basic aspects of life, refusing to understand that one's wife or daughter is a ho, or that one's political party choice is no better than any other scumbag, etc.. whatever the case may be.

Same for audiophiles. Does the determination of their being no difference actually create that for the given person? Literally hearing what you want to hear? (whatever the direction it may take)

Questions, questions.

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