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drumguy48
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Best plug is no plug

Hi all, I have been pondering the wisdom of spending many hundreds of my hard earned dollars on some Furutech power cable, IEC connectors etc (I'm still using standard power cables)
I am convinced that different audio (inters, speaker)cables do alter the sound but have not until now thought of power cables because of the scarcity of Hi Quality Australian 3 pin wall plugs -having now found a Aussie site that sells Furutech Aussie plugs has led to this ponderation?
I Think I'm willing to spend a fare chunk of cash to gain even a reasonably minimal gain in blacker background, better defined bass, etc
Having spent many hours thinking of different arrangements of cables etc to get the best bang for ... led me to realise that companies like Furutech etc. make these hi end, hi cost products to improve on the myriad of faults with standard plugs, cables and wall sockets -and that led me to realise that those same plugs sockets etc. exist purely to safely and conveniently get electric current from inside the wall cavity into your listening room and then your components - Now about the safety and convenience factor - could not a single audiophile,with no children to worry about, simply bypass the three pin wall plug, and wall socket and directly connect the new power cord to the existing inwall power cable - assuming the connection is safe and secure, apart from the inconvenience of having no on /off switch,and having to keep your components setup the same way -would'nt this be the best solution soundwise???
Not to mention a hefty reduction in the cost of said project!

Elk
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Re: Best plug is no plug

I've read of people doing this and being pleased.

It makes sense. I personally wouldn't hesitate to try it if I were so inclined.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:
Now about the safety and convenience factor - could not a single audiophile,with no children to worry about, simply bypass the three pin wall plug, and wall socket and directly connect the new power cord to the existing inwall power cable - assuming the connection is safe and secure, apart from the inconvenience of having no on /off switch,and having to keep your components setup the same way -would'nt this be the best solution soundwise???

OK, with logic like that, you must be an unemployed OSHA inspector from the Bush administration.

Cutting through the numerous flaws in your logic, allow me to make a suggestion. If you have no concerns for your own safety or that of your neighbors when the flames are licking their rooftops, you need to make the next leap of faith in this process. Why bother with connecting to the incoming cables behind the wall socket? That still leaves everything in line and sharing a common ground (depending on your soldering skills that is) with all of the noise and grunge producing items on the same circuit and even on the same service panel. The best and most obvious solution - if we continue with your logic - is to go straight to the source. Forget the wall outlet and connect directly to the main service panel. That, of course, still leaves something to be desired but there is a work around for everything - if you just imagine hard enough. Have an electrician - or someone who knows an electrician - install a sub-panel in your listening room. This minimizes the interaction between the system and the refrigerator or air conditioner at the very least. Make your connections directly to this sub-panel and - viola! - you have your own "best" connection solution.

For more "wisdom" ...

http://feeds.feedburner.com/thereifixedit

http://seeifixedit.com/

http://www.urlesque.com/2009/07/03/there-i-fixed-it/

http://thereifixedit.com/page/3/

http://jalopnik.com/tag/your-car-is-doing-it-wrong/

David_L
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Save yourself even more money by not bothering in my opinion based upon science and common sense, power cords do nothing other than carry ac current to your power transformer. If you can't measure a difference on the amps outputs by changing the power cord then it's a waste of time and money.

SAS Audio
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:
Save yourself even more money by not bothering in my opinion based upon science and common sense, power cords do nothing other than carry ac current to your power transformer.

Based on real 1st year electronics/science your statement cannot possibly be true.

As an example, let's make this simple and use the right channel of a preamplifier's output to an amplifier's input. (Of course this also occurs in the left channel as well and from source to preamplifier etc.)

A portion of the right channel's signal from preamplifier to amplifier input returns via the right IC shield/ground path. A portion also returns via the left channel shield/ground path and a portion via the ground wire of the AC cord of the amplifier, through the wall and back through the ground wire of the preamplifier power cord path. (Notice nothing mentioned about pole transformers, outside wiring.)
This scenario also occurs in the left channel as well. Notice both shields and the power cord ground have signal currents from both channels passing through them.

The frequencies involved, the resistance, and inductance of the power cords, wall wiring, IC shields, internal chassis leads etc affects the ratio of the signals traveling through the cords VS the IC shields.

As one can see, alot more occurs in a power cord than simply conducting AC.

As mentioned above Drum, I would be careful due to fire hazard etc.

Cheers.

David_L
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Re: Best plug is no plug

"If you can't measure a difference on the amps outputs by changing the power cord then it's a waste of time and money."

I notice you ignored this part of my post. Care to show measured results in the real world where power cords made a difference? No not on the transformer inputs , I mean the amps outputs. Didn't think you would

Buddha
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Back in the day, there was a fleeting craze for "soldering shut" all the connections in a given signal path to improve sound.

Preamps were rendered able to only have one input, etc...I don't recall if they went so far as to solder shut the volume pots.

Anyway....

If one were to connect one's system in this fashion, many practical questions come to mind:

1) How would you accomplish this with every piece of gear?

That would seem to require a whole bunch of connections to make.

2) What would you do to the connector where the AC plug plugs into the piece of gear?

Would that be altered, as well?

3) How would handle surge protection, or power failures followed by the power coming back? No worries?

4) Would you eventually end up directly connecting the house power line directly yo the component's innards instead of having to go through the AC connector? If so, would you then proceed to soldering shut your RCA connections between components? Soldered speaker posts, or directly to the crossover, or even to each driver?

5) What method would you use to make these 'secure' connections?

6) The home's electrical supply usually goes through the circuit breaker box...solder around those sonically parasitic connections, as well?

Cheers.

SAS Audio
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Re: Best plug is no plug


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"If you can't measure a difference on the amps outputs by changing the power cord then it's a waste of time and money."

I notice you ignored this part of my post.

Don't need to post it as we caught your claims "based on science" and "common sense" to be just the opposite of real science based upon first year electronics.

So we know you make claims about science and about your knowledge of science that are false. Other "scientists" do the same on other forums.

Secondly why have you not measured the outputs, performed your own experiments?? The fact is, you did not know if power cords make a difference or not. So why ask us to do your work when you have already reached a conclusion not based on science?


Quote:
Care to show measured results in the real world where power cords made a difference? No not on the transformer inputs , I mean the amps outputs. Didn't think you would

Quite an attitude for someone who just got caught claiming scientific knowledge and "common sense" and found to be false.

For starters, all one has to do is check the channel separation specs of each component. But that only begins to tell the story because it does not include the entire system connected together, ICs connected etc. For one claiming science I would have expected you to understand this basic information instead of an attitude.

Cheers.

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Thanks guys, I realised it was a crazy notion (safety wise) and I think I posted the question just hoping someone would talk me out of it
Now onto crazy notion 2 - it seems a waste plugging expensive power cables into a $5 hardware store wall outlet - and as there does'nt seem to be any Aussie after market wall outlet - could I fit a US wall outlet and use US male AC plugs? would the US 110 volt outlet handle the 240 volts we use here in Oz?

David_L
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:

Quote:
"If you can't measure a difference on the amps outputs by changing the power cord then it's a waste of time and money."

I notice you ignored this part of my post.

Don't need to post it as we caught your claims "based on science" and "common sense" to be just the opposite of real science based upon first year electronics.

So we know you make claims about science and about your knowledge of science that are false. Other "scientists" do the same on other forums.

Secondly why have you not measured the outputs, performed your own experiments?? The fact is, you did not know if power cords make a difference or not. So why ask us to do your work when you have already reached a conclusion not based on science?


Quote:
Care to show measured results in the real world where power cords made a difference? No not on the transformer inputs , I mean the amps outputs. Didn't think you would

Quite an attitude for someone who just got caught claiming scientific knowledge and "common sense" and found to be false.

For starters, all one has to do is check the channel separation specs of each component. But that only begins to tell the story because it does not include the entire system connected together, ICs connected etc. For one claiming science I would have expected you to understand this basic information instead of an attitude.

Cheers.

As usual you have nothing to add to a discussion other than more of your pure drivel so I'll ignore you from now on like I ignore Geoff have fun claiming power cords make a difference without proof. I'm guessing you miss Ethan to argue with bye bye

SAS Audio
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:
As usual you have nothing to add to a discussion other than more of your pure drivel so I'll ignore you from now on like I ignore Geoff have fun claiming power cords make a difference without proof. I'm guessing you miss Ethan to argue with bye bye

That is quite an accusation.

1) Interesting as you claim science, yet it was I who presented the scientific evidence refuting your "scientific" claim (check DavidL's first post for his actual claim which I directly addressed).

In fact I had to bring up the channel separation measurement spec that you should have understood.

2) You have not presented one shred of scientific evidence to support your claim. One sees this on other forums.

3) You claim to want proof, yet you refuse to perform your own testing to find evidence either way.
You and your "scientific" friends have had years to perform such testing, but haven't. Again One sees this on other forums.

One can only conclude that you do not wish any evidence either way, but rather work from a prepared non scientific position.

Cheers.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Best plug is no plug


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would the US 110 volt outlet handle the 240 volts we use here in Oz?

Work? yeah, it would "work". The question is, for how long?

Current is still what kills ya.

Steve Eddy
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:

Quote:
This scenario also occurs in the left channel as well. Notice both shields and the power cord ground have signal currents from both channels passing through them.

All the more reason for manufacturers to design chassis to meet Class II specs and ditch the safety ground.

Manufacturers of even the most dreadful mass market dreck have figured it out. But it seems to completely evade most "high end" manufacturers. And many consumers would probably think they were somehow getting lesser quality if they were offered a piece of equipment that only accommodated a two prong plug.

se

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Thanks Jan - but just wondering -the guys here selling the Furutech product line recommend running a short lead with Aussie Male AC plug from the wall outlet to a Furutech distribution board (US) then separate leads with US male plugs to components -would'nt this pose the same threat?

Jan Vigne
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Re: Best plug is no plug

I suppose they are making their recommendation based on the amperage rating of the US plug.

Does this mean you'll be replacing all the AC plugs on your system? That might lead to warranty issues with a persnickety manufacturer.

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

I may pose the question tomorrow before I make my mind up what to order-although it does still seem a waste to use a $5 wall outlet (was thinking of buying new outlet and cutting back inwall cable to expose fresh copper wire) I only have 2 components -amp and cd, amp is out of warranty...

Jan Vigne
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Re: Best plug is no plug


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... although it does still seem a waste to use a $5 wall outlet ...

Surely there are hospital grade outlets in the hinterlands. That's where the US and British DIY'ers began making AC outlet upgrades. Look at laboratory grade outlets, there must be something better than your $5 outlet.

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Hi Jan,just thought I'd update - I've ordered the Furutech Aussie plugs-when I was talking to the shop guy on the phone he gave me the part no. for an Aussie duplex outlet thats unswitched -still domestic, but without on/off switch its a more direct connection -he also told me that some of their customers do replace Aussie outlet with a US unit - but he said that it could compromise your household insurance - anyway now anxiously awaiting the arrival of my parcel....

Freako
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Please remember to keep all your snakes separated from each other. That can provide at least as much detail and black background as new power cables! Good luck

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Thanks Keld, but I do that already - only have amp and cd player-placed side by side on big blocks of wood on the floor - am fanatical about having at least 1-2 inches separation between all my cables

dumbo
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Re: Best plug is no plug

I'm a true believer in the gains that can be had from upgrading your power delivery components in an audio system.

Installing a dedicated line and 20amp circuit breaker to the main box in my house using a 10ga Romex wire and a PS Audio AC Plug made a huge difference for the better. IMO, these are just the beginning steps in a series of power delivery upgrades which offer an immediate noticeable difference.

Using a Hospital/AV Grade AC outlet and a quality power cord of the same gauge as the dedicated line going to the main box in the house would be the ideal setup in getting you as close to your proposed connection method without burning down your house.

The next upgrade would be installing a quality, non current limiting Power Conditioner/Distribution device. Most of the good ones also have some mechanism of further cleaning up any remaining interference introduced by sharing the same main breaker box as the rest of your household appliances.

Lastly would be to upgrade the power cord which feeds the component itself from the Distribution device. Again trying to keep the gauge of the wire the same as the one used in the dedicated line to the breaker panel

Using this method would be a much safer approach (more expensive also) then hard wiring your equipment. The cost of these added components is nothing compared to the cost of your house burning down and you will also experience greater benefits in the end when it comes to achieving those "Blacker Backgrounds".

In my system, each of these layers and upgrades has offered a very noticeable difference for the better, EVERYTIME. I use all Shunyata components in my system except for the AC Plug itself. I have yet to be disappointed when it came to making an effort of enhancing the delivery of power in my system.

Personally I wouldn't bother with just adding a better AC Plug and power cord without connecting it to a dedicated line and breaker circuit. If anything, I would do the dedicated line and circuit and leave the current AC wall outlet and power cord alone if you want a good starting platform for later upgrades

pentode
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Re: Best plug is no plug


Quote:

Using this method would be a much safer approach (more expensive also) then hard wiring your equipment. The cost of these added components is nothing compared to the cost of your house burning down and you will also experience greater benefits in the end when it comes to achieving those "Blacker Backgrounds".

If one were to use industrial wiring practices with, say, 3/4" Sealtite flexible tubing secured to your amp, extending to a metal wall plate and metal junction box in the wall, using stranded 10ga wires within, and soldered or heavy Sta-Kon connectors in the amp -- you would eliminate any plug/receptacle resistance and any heat produced by old, loose contacts. This would be safe from the fire producing aspect.

Of course, this would be inconvenient for most folks, but it does have some benefits if not forbidden by code.

Elk
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Exactly. No reason not to do it if done safely.

drumguy48
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Re: Best plug is no plug

Hi All, received and installed new unswitched wall outlet today. I'm glad you guys helped to talk me out of my original idea, as it was scary enough just replacing old for new outlet - anyway - now its done and cables will have been cooked for app. 125 hours by the time I sit down to listen tomorrow. I am expecting good things sonically ,not just from cooked cables, but closely examining the inside of the old outlet- quite a few ways that the current flow is being inhibited .
Will post after checking the changes tomorrow.

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