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ludwigvan968
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Apple Lossless

Is anyone else running apple lossless only on ther iPod? I found that any lower and the sound suffered, though I do not use this on my main system, the whriling effect compressed files makes really bugs me. Does anyone else have this problem?

ohfourohnine
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Re: Apple Lossless

I can't see any real reason to load an iPod with anything less than Redbook unless you have a very small music collection, and want to put the whole thing on there.

I use my iPod a lot, and I change what I have on it fairly frequently. At any time, it has more than 24 hours of music on it at 16/44.1 No sound quality annoyance. If I hadn't had so much good stuff on it before I read JA's favorable review of Apple Lossless, I might have chosen that format, but I'm too lazy to change at this time, and a little fearful that the lossless format might give me some problems with other applications like providing background music for slide shows etc.

cew65w
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Re: Apple Lossless

I've tried it but stopped using it for various reasons. I got a 20gig iPod and I want to get as much music on it as possible. The larger AL files doesn't make that possible. Secondly, the larger AL files has playing havoc with the iPod's internal memory buffer, causing it to freeze up more often than usual. I went back to using AAC at 192kps. For me, it's a happy medium of compact file size and sound quality.

ludwigvan968
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Re: Apple Lossless

I have noticed a considerable amount of skipping from time to time, so you are saying the lower compressions work better with the memory buffer?

cew65w
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Re: Apple Lossless


Quote:
I have noticed a considerable amount of skipping from time to time, so you are saying the lower compressions work better with the memory buffer?


The skipping could be a symptom of the larger file sizes and the memory buffer. But if you are experiencing complete iPod freezes or lock-ups(like I were when using Apple Lossless), I would think about changing.

ludwigvan968
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Re: Apple Lossless

I have never had my iPod lock up on me, but I do have it skip songs from time to time, as well as skip within the songs. I figure it is either the buffer or the hard drive, not sure.

BGLeduc
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Re: Apple Lossless

With my 3g 40g, I have had some drop outs, which were repeatable in a given track. The solution was to enable error correction in iTunes when I ripped my CD's.

However, I do note that Apple Lossless files occasionally pause during playback. The locations of the pauses have NOT been repeatable, therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the my particular iPod just does not like Apple Lossless files. I can't say if this is a memory buffer issue or not, but I have abandoned the use of Apple Lossless files in favor of 320K AAC.

Brian

ohfourohnine
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Re: Apple Lossless Occasional Pauses

After a couple of years of enjoying iPod sourced music loaded at Redbook standard, I bit the bullet and began building an iTunes file in Apple Lossless on a second computer. So far as the quality of sound is concerned, JA was right, Lossless works. Sounds as good a Redbook, and occupies less than half the space. I have, however, noticed the occasional pauses you refer to. This never happened at 16/44.1. I agree that they're not repeatable - not an artifact of building a particular file. So far, I consider them tolerable - like vinyl clicks and pops. I suspect, they have to do with loading a buffer, but that's just a guess. Does anyone have a line on the cause?

ludwigvan968
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Re: Apple Lossless Occasional Pauses

Yeah I was talking to my techie/Mac friends and they said it was defintely a buffer issue and that everyone expierenced it. The lore goes that applelossless was designed as the transport compression for the Airport Extreme and apple just added the support to the iPod, whether this is true I do not know. Anyway, I still have the problem, but as you note, I just get over it and keep listening to my tunes.

John Ashman
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Re: Apple Lossless Occasional Pauses

Apple lossless is more like ~65% of the size, not less than half. I don't think it's theoretically possible to do less than half, theoretically. Or, not with the type of compression, anyway I think you can get a mono track down to about 51%.

ohfourohnine
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Re: Apple Lossless Occasional Pauses

You're right. I stand corrected. Thanks. As an aside, I guess I should be happy to have occassional pauses be the only problem I've encountered so far. I went to the Apple discussions website to see if anyone there could shed light on the problem and found descriptions of other iPod users problems - literally hundreds of them - many of which would curl your hair.

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Lossless Compression Efficiency


Quote:
Apple lossless is more like ~65% of the size, not less than half. I don't think it's theoretically possible to do less than half...

At this weekend's AES Convention, a paper on the new MPEG4 Lossless codec (if I understood it correctly) quoted a maximum file-reduction ratio of just under 45% -- ie, the compressed file was 45% of the original 48k WAV -- for one of the test files. For reference, FLAC gave a file size 48% of the original for the same file.

Depending on the music, I find ALC to give file sizes between 45% and 55% of the original AIF.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

ohfourohnine
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Re: Lossless Compression Efficiency

Thanks for the clarification, John. Your numbers make me feel better about the results I'm getting as I'm building an ALC file and making rough comparisons with the size of my AIF file.

Have you any insight into the intermittant pauses I've run into in ALC playback which I never have encountered with AIF playback?

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Re: Lossless Compression Efficiency


Quote:
Have you any insight into the intermittant pauses I've run into in ALC playback which I never have encountered with AIF playback?

I have encountered the very occasional glitch with both AIF and ALC files on my iPod, but never repeatable and never playing the same files on my PowerBook. The first time it happened I thought I must have had a faulty rip from CD, but looking at the waveform of the original AIF in Bias Peak revealed nothing wrong. I can only assume it is a buffer issue and related to the recent playback history.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

ludwigvan968
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Re: Lossless Compression Efficiency

I too have experienced skipping as noted in a previous thread, I don't think apple lossless was intended for the iPod, everyone I have talked to that uses the codec have all told me they have it skip from time to time. Like you stated the buffer just isn't big enough....

In itunes the codec works flawless and sounds good, even the airport express I tested it with worked well...

Anyway, just kind of frustrating...

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