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Kal Rubinson
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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If Stereophile had to buy the components they review, you can bet your bottom dollar that old rhetorical warhorse would be put out to pasture in short order.

Well, if I had to buy the components I review, I would probably review far fewer or, perhaps, none.

OTOH, I have tried, for a while, to limit the components I review to those I could buy or would buy if I liked them enough. Although I really enjoyed playing with very large and/or expensive stuff (as defined by my personal criteria), they inspire less enthusiasm than those that challenge me to decide if I would buy them or return them.

Kal

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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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What about the Sonus-Faber Cremona M's? They are on sale right now for $9998....having auditioned them my guess is that they are full-range...

A) Though less than my $15k, they are twice the $5k claimed by the posters.

B) The Cremona doesn't offer extension to 20Hz at high level, so is not full-range.

John Atkinson
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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Im not into bashing the high end at all but i do take offence at a statement that its impossible to build a good full range speaker for less than $15k.

Why are you taking offense? As I said, if you want a speaker with low distortion and coloration that delivers 20Hz at high levels without compression costs upwards of $15k/pair, is the way it is. Yes, you can sacrifice distortion and coloration and accept dynamic compression to preserve full-range LF extension at lower cost, but that is not what I am talking about.


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It is absolutely possible to build a full range speaker, companies like VMPS offer their VR40 model for $3k ( special offer ) and it is by any standards full range.

I am afraid I haven't heard this speaker, but I am familiar with other speakers in the VMPS range and while respect Brian Cheney as a designer, to me his insistence on full-range performance does involve compromise elsewhere with his less-expensive models.

Look: to design a speaker that achieves what I described above requires a large investment in material and engineering. Heck, even the shipping cost for a true full-range speaker can run to several hundered dollars, likewise the packing materials.


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Their is a difference between the over priced high end mainstream and intrinsic costs. I have no problem at all with people charging whatever they can get but dont confuse putting a few drivers in a MDF box as being $15,000 worth of hardware.

With respect, and based on my experience as a speaker reviewer and long-time audio journalist, I don't think you know as much as you believe about the costing and pricing of speaker manufacture to be able to make such a blanket statement. As I said above, if what you say is correct, then that over-pricing represents a market opportunity for another manufacturer, and prices would fall.

John Atkinson
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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With respect for yours and Alex-O's opinion, this just isn't correct. If it were, speaker companies, which are always looking for a competitive advantage, would be doing it. That they are not, that if you want a speaker with low distortion and coloration that delivers 20Hz at high levels without compression costs upwards of $15k/pair, is the way it is, I am afraid.

Legacy Focus, which Stereophile reviewed goes for $6,400 - far less than the $15k you cite.

Look at my measurements. The Focus is _not_ a full-range speaker, even when compared with the more expensive Legacy speakers. It cost $6500/pair in 2004 when we reviewed it; I am not sure of the current price, as it can't be obtained directly from the Legacy website. But $6500/pair is significantly higher than the $5000/pair you gusys are arguing about.

How can it be priced low? It is sold direct, so there is not a dealer margin in its pricing. However, shipping costs are presumably extra. And I do suspect Legacy speakers are underpriced, given the company's history.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

bifcake
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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How can it be priced low? It is sold direct, so there is not a dealer margin in its pricing. However, shipping costs are presumably extra. And I do suspect Legacy speakers are underpriced, given the company's history.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Legacy is not sold direct. It's got a dealer network. I don't understand what you mean when you say that you "suspect that Legacy speakers are underpriced, given the company's history". I'm not privy to that history.

As far as VMPS is concerned, no one expects to have a no compromise speaker for $5k, but do you mean to say that you don't like VMPS's inexpensive lines? If so, what's wrong with them?

JIMV
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES

The debate has gone astray. The issue was not 'full range speakers' but very, very, very highly priced gear sold in minuscule numbers, and, for me, the idea that such things can ever be worth the cost.

I have nor problem with reading about fantasy gear but find the claim such things are worth the price absurd. $100K is a flat or juniors college education, not 40 pounds of audio gear.

returnstackerror
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES

Many posters have used car pricing as a comparison point against high cost components. And so will I.

If you compare a high priced car, say > $50,000, to components whose price is over $50,000, we capture some mass market makers (bmw/lexus etc) and also some more low volume ones like ferrari/aston martin etc.

Now the difference here is a $100,000 turntable isn

scleary20
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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Many posters have used car pricing as a comparison point against high cost components. And so will I.

If you compare a high priced car, say > $50,000, to components whose price is over $50,000, we capture some mass market makers (bmw/lexus etc) and also some more low volume ones like ferrari/aston martin etc.

Now the difference here is a $100,000 turntable isn

Buddha
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES

The one thing with 30,000 dollar spinning platinum rims is that the owner doesn't feel the need to convince others that these rims improve the car's performance in unmeasurable ways that nonetheless must exist.

"Although they change nothing about the car's measured performance, these new rims are the finest rims I've ever driven."

rvance
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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The one thing with 30,000 dollar spinning platinum rims is that the owner doesn't feel the need to convince others that these rims improve the car's performance in unmeasurable ways that nonetheless must exist.

"Although they change nothing about the car's measured performance, these new rims are the finest rims I've ever driven."

Actually, the spinning outer rims work gyroscopically as an outboard stability control device, greatly reducing yaw, motion sickness and spilled drinks.

ethanwiner
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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the spinning outer rims work gyroscopically as an outboard stability control device, greatly reducing yaw, motion sickness and spilled drinks.


Versus $30,000 wires that do ... what exactly?

--Ethan

Buddha
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Re: Alex's Cartoon and Prices at CES


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Quote:
the spinning outer rims work gyroscopically as an outboard stability control device, greatly reducing yaw, motion sickness and spilled drinks.


Versus $30,000 wires that do ... what exactly?

--Ethan

Same thing! "Work gyroscopically as an outboard stability control device, greatly reducing yaw, motion sickness and spilled drinks."

D'uh!

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